Treadmill calibrations
Jthanmyfitnesspal
Posts: 3,522 Member
My gym has several treadmills and I usually aim for one that I'm familiar with. Then, the calibration is always the same.
Last night, they were all taken except for the notoriously easy one. By easy, I mean that you have to set it about 10% faster to go the same speed as my usual one. How do I know? Because my Garmin watch is calibrated to my pace. Plus, my BODY is calibrated to my pace. Anyway, I don't like it!
I mentioned it to the gym manager. She gave me the big shrug. It works, doesn't it?
Actually, it also need to be re-leveled. It shakes a little bit.
Last night, they were all taken except for the notoriously easy one. By easy, I mean that you have to set it about 10% faster to go the same speed as my usual one. How do I know? Because my Garmin watch is calibrated to my pace. Plus, my BODY is calibrated to my pace. Anyway, I don't like it!
I mentioned it to the gym manager. She gave me the big shrug. It works, doesn't it?
Actually, it also need to be re-leveled. It shakes a little bit.
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Replies
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I guess I didn't start much discussion. My point was to ask if everyone feels as strongly as I do that treadmills should be properly calibrated!2
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I'd definitely expect a treadmill at a gym to be properly calibrated given normal wear and tear there will always be some variance but 10% is outside of the acceptable range.
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I believe this to be a problem with all TMs at all gyms, partly due to the heavy use they get. I belong to a small gym; we have 4 TMs. Two fo them are close (to each other) in calibration and two are doing their own things. None of them come close to comparing to my running app or my Garmin - the best loses .1 miles for every mile run. The faster you run the more it loses. Although I wish this were not the case I have come to accept it and run based on my bodies mood and my personal tracking devices. Quite honestly I'm not even sure that the timers on the TMs are all that accurate
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It drives me nuts. Outside, my comfortable, zone 2 pace is about 9:30-9:45. On the mill it is 6.0 at 1% incline. I actually feel outside is easier than the mill at times but I think it is because the music I listen to in order to drown out mill boredom tends to be fast.
Another thought- do you think music affects heart rate? I wonder...1 -
I have a Garmin foot pod - so it doesn’t bother me at all to have to adjust a treadmill differently - I’d prefer that to having gym membership prices go up because they are calibrating the TMs! Plus honestly I don’t know how many members find this important 😁 I find my running on the TM is so different to outside that I always find it easier inside!1
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My treadmill is consistent, at least. I have attempted to re-calibrate it using the instructions in the manual. It still *feels* harder than an outdoor run. I would prefer accuracy, but have settled for consistency. I prefer that the treadmill be harder, rather than easier, if it can't be accurate.0
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alexandrahicks2 wrote: »I have a Garmin foot pod - so it doesn’t bother me at all to have to adjust a treadmill differently - I’d prefer that to having gym membership prices go up because they are calibrating the TMs! Plus honestly I don’t know how many members find this important 😁 I find my running on the TM is so different to outside that I always find it easier inside!
I find the TM slightly easier and do the old trick of running at a 1% grade (or more). When I get back on the road, this seems to correspond pretty well. (Assuming the treadmill is properly calibrated. I've found that one in my gym is not!)
I'm always interested in the Garmin foot pod, Garmin run dynamics pod, Garmin chest strap with run dynamics, Zwift run pod, or something similar. I have a Vivoactive 3, and a lot of those are not compatible with it.
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How common and widespread is this problem? Is this something that just affects places like an apartment complex gym or does it also affect gyms like equinox and lifetime?0
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@Urun4me : Well, I started the topic because one of the Precor "Gym Grade" treadmills at my gym is definitely out of calibration such that you need to put the speed up about 10% above where the others are to get the same workout. These treadmills cost over $5K each, so they are not what you buy at home, in general. I would think that the cheaper ones have this problem all the time!2
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Being the absolute dork that I am, I measured the circumference of my treadmill deck and counted the rotations per minute at 6mph to determine how accurate my treadmill is. I did this because, when I first got it, it felt so much harder to me than running outdoors. Turns out, based on my calculations, it is off by less than 1%, and it's actually fast.
But here's the interesting thing. All of the Garmins I have had (I had my TM way before I had a Garmin capable of recording an indoor run), my Garmin predicts my pace to be waaay slower than the treadmill says. In fact, as mentioned by @dougii , the faster I run, the slower it thinks I am running. The Garmin model I have (no footpod) uses the data it thinks it knows about me based on my outdoor runs and extrapolates my speed based on my cadence and my "known" stride length. I have noticed that my cadence is much lower on the treadmill than outside according to Garmin. So I have to assume that I am altering my form and/or cadence when I run on the treadmill. I can only assume that one of two things is happening: Either Garmin is not picking up my correct cadence because I do not get full arm swings when on the treadmill, or I have a much longer stride on the treadmill, which causes me to have a slower than normal cadence. Based on the observation that it seems to slow down as I speed up, I tend to think that it is more likely the first scenario, but running on the treadmill does feel more difficult to me, so maybe it is a combination of the two. (Shrug).2 -
My SOLE has instructions on how to calibrate it but I never bothered since I use it so rarely. I do have a foot pod but I have no way of actually knowing how accurate it is (I guess if I calibrated I'd know but... ). I guess I just accept that my distance/pace will be off and live with it. I only do easy runs on the the dreadmill. If I ever got the patience to run programs on it maybe I'd care more...
My point is here (other than just rambling) is run by feel on the dreadmill. If it feels slow, it is. Good luck.1 -
lporter229 wrote: »Being the absolute dork that I am, I measured the circumference of my treadmill deck and counted the rotations per minute at 6mph to determine how accurate my treadmill is. I did this because, when I first got it, it felt so much harder to me than running outdoors. Turns out, based on my calculations, it is off by less than 1%, and it's actually fast.
But here's the interesting thing. All of the Garmins I have had (I had my TM way before I had a Garmin capable of recording an indoor run), my Garmin predicts my pace to be waaay slower than the treadmill says. In fact, as mentioned by @dougii , the faster I run, the slower it thinks I am running. The Garmin model I have (no footpod) uses the data it thinks it knows about me based on my outdoor runs and extrapolates my speed based on my cadence and my "known" stride length. I have noticed that my cadence is much lower on the treadmill than outside according to Garmin. So I have to assume that I am altering my form and/or cadence when I run on the treadmill. I can only assume that one of two things is happening: Either Garmin is not picking up my correct cadence because I do not get full arm swings when on the treadmill, or I have a much longer stride on the treadmill, which causes me to have a slower than normal cadence. Based on the observation that it seems to slow down as I speed up, I tend to think that it is more likely the first scenario, but running on the treadmill does feel more difficult to me, so maybe it is a combination of the two. (Shrug).lporter229 wrote: »Being the absolute dork that I am, I measured the circumference of my treadmill deck and counted the rotations per minute at 6mph to determine how accurate my treadmill is. I did this because, when I first got it, it felt so much harder to me than running outdoors. Turns out, based on my calculations, it is off by less than 1%, and it's actually fast.
My garmin totally messes with my head on the treadmill too. Says I’m doing 10:30 when I’m at 7.0 or above. I end up taking my garmin off cause I get so mad.
I use a gym grade Nordictrac at home and Precor at the gym.0 -
@lporter229 : That is fantastic and a great low-tech way to test it. It didn't occur to me that it would be that easy, but of course it is. (Teach a man to fish...) It would be rather convenient to use a rolling ruler of some sort. (It would also be fun to build an arduino-based calibration device. Even better if it broadcast on ANT or Bluetooth.)
@dewd2 and @RunnerGirl238 : I think there are psychophysical effects in play here. I have always felt that the most treadmills felt too easy relative to outdoor running. In fact, when I did C25K, I started on the treadmill (it was winter). As I started running outdoors, I found it much harder. Now I run indoors at a grade so that my outdoor running doesn't suffer. This seems in contrast to your experience.
Being a physicist, I point out that there is no mechanical difference between running on a flat surface (e.g., a track) and a treadmill, except for 1) wind resistance when actually running outdoors (which is usually small unless it's windy), 2) some additional bounce that some treadmills provide, and 3) the absolutely preset and predictable pace of the treadmill (I like it whereas many people hate it). Also, running on the treadmill is boring.0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Also, running on the treadmill is boring.
That's just, like, your opinion, man!1 -
There is a reason I refer it to the dreadmill. I won't run on them unless I have to, and I can't stand doing more then 5km on them.
My issue with treadmills is they are in miles and I run in kilometers. I can never seem to get to the right pace that I do when I run outside.0 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Also, running on the treadmill is boring.
That's just, like, your opinion, man!
Well, it can be fun: I've taken a class at a "run studio" where there was a DJ with awesome music. And, a beer party afterward. That made it fun!
What makes it non-boring for you?0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »autumnblade75 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Also, running on the treadmill is boring.
That's just, like, your opinion, man!
Well, it can be fun: I've taken a class at a "run studio" where there was a DJ with awesome music. And, a beer party afterward. That made it fun!
What makes it non-boring for you?
I am engaged in watching the numbers on the display. I recognize that I am alone or alone-adjacent in this. It is just, like, my opinion, man.
My credentials include 20 mile treadmill runs. I'm not just talking about 20 minute short workouts.1 -
I do like the metrics and also the knowledge that I can add a steeper grade than maybe I can find here.
But some elements can’t be faked- ankle stability when dealing with potholes, tree roots, wind resistance, puddles. Ugh I dealt with ridiculous puddles today.1 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Also, running on the treadmill is boring.
That's just, like, your opinion, man!
Nope. That's a fact.
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »@lporter229 : That is fantastic and a great low-tech way to test it. It didn't occur to me that it would be that easy, but of course it is. (Teach a man to fish...) It would be rather convenient to use a rolling ruler of some sort. (It would also be fun to build an arduino-based calibration device. Even better if it broadcast on ANT or Bluetooth.)
@dewd2 and @RunnerGirl238 : I think there are psychophysical effects in play here. I have always felt that the most treadmills felt too easy relative to outdoor running. In fact, when I did C25K, I started on the treadmill (it was winter). As I started running outdoors, I found it much harder. Now I run indoors at a grade so that my outdoor running doesn't suffer. This seems in contrast to your experience.
Being a physicist, I point out that there is no mechanical difference between running on a flat surface (e.g., a track) and a treadmill, except for 1) wind resistance when actually running outdoors (which is usually small unless it's windy), 2) some additional bounce that some treadmills provide, and 3) the absolutely preset and predictable pace of the treadmill (I like it whereas many people hate it). Also, running on the treadmill is boring.
I've seen people running super fast on a treadmill by getting more air with every stride. Where they would not be able to run that fast outside because part of the speed is letting the treadmill move and them coming closer to a jump than a running stride.0 -
I've seen people running super fast on a treadmill by getting more air with every stride. Where they would not be able to run that fast outside because part of the speed is letting the treadmill move and them coming closer to a jump than a running stride.
Aside from fairly small effects, you should be able to run on a track just as fast as you run on a treadmill. That assertion comes from the concept of an "inertial reference frame," which just means that moving at any constant velocity is indistinguishable from any other, including zero. We have Sir Issac Newton to credit for that observation.
(There are the caveats I listed above, such as wind resistance. I didn't mention that, on a track, you have to actually accelerate or decelerate to a new velocity, whereas on the treadmill, you don't. But, once you achieve a constant velocity, you are in an inertial reference frame and it doesn't matter if you are actually stationary or not!)2 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I've seen people running super fast on a treadmill by getting more air with every stride. Where they would not be able to run that fast outside because part of the speed is letting the treadmill move and them coming closer to a jump than a running stride.
Aside from fairly small effects, you should be able to run on a track just as fast as you run on a treadmill. That assertion comes from the concept of an "inertial reference frame," which just means that moving at any constant velocity is indistinguishable from any other, including zero. We have Sir Issac Newton to credit for that observation.
(There are the caveats I listed above, such as wind resistance. I didn't mention that, on a track, you have to actually accelerate or decelerate to a new velocity, whereas on the treadmill, you don't. But, once you achieve a constant velocity, you are in an inertial reference frame and it doesn't matter if you are actually stationary or not!)
Makes sense (at least as much sense as I think it's possible to make to me about physics concepts), but if someone were to jump straight up into the air with the treadmill running underneath them, then land in the exact same position the treadmill would show that they traveled a certain distance. Yet on the track they would not have traveled any distance. Though that isn't actually possible to do on a treadmill, I would think someone running and exerting more upward force than the average runner could run at a faster pace on the treadmill than on a track.0 -
@Urun4me : Sir Issac Newton disagreed for the case where you're running at a constant velocity.
It helps to imagine that, on a track, you are running inside a box that is being pulled along at the same constant velocity. Now, you run for a while and decide to leap in the air. In both cases, you will continue forward at that same constant velocity until you land.
The point is that, when your body is at a constant velocity (including zero) there is no net force. The only reason you are working so hard is to overcome the resistance of your own body!2 -
I will have to simply concede the point. I don't really understand it, but I think you understand the concept I was trying to get across and are still able to refute it, which is all I can ask for, not understanding physics myself. So I imagine my lay thoughts on the subject are not an actual representation of how things work.1
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