Is soy bad for you?

Ophidion

I have posted this thread to ask if anyone can provide definitive evidence that soy or soy products are bad for you...not conjecture or bro-science but actual evidence that stands up to scientific scrutiny that is neither a scare tactic or a attempt to further ones own dietary preference.

So far all I have been able to come up with is the following but the sources don't seem considerably reliable and the study's seem to small to be considered definitive proof. (Sorry about the brief sources hence why I am asking for help as I am not very good at this sort of research)

*1 "[Some studies] say that soy can be quite detrimental to your health, and that the isoflavones can interfere with your endocrine system and hormone balance," she says. "This can possibly reduce fertility in women, contribute to premature puberty, and has even been linked to certain cancers and conditions like gyecomastia (male breast development) when consumed in large amounts.”

*2 A review entitled Can Phytoestrogens Cause Infertility?, published in June this year in the international e-journal Arbor Clinical Nutrition Updates (www.nutritionupdates.org), concludes that soy consumption may contribute to infertility. In a study of 99 men, those with the highest soy intake had 41 million less sperm per millilitre than those who ate no soy. In another study, a dozen healthy young men were given two scoops of soy protein powder a day for four weeks.

Their testosterone levels fell by an average of 19 per cent, but returned to normal two weeks after they stopped taking the soy supplement. In the report, the study reviewers acknowledged that most of the evidence of a link between soy and male infertility comes from animal studies as there hasn't been enough conclusive testing in humans yet.


“Soy products are very high in phytic acid, which can interfere with mineral absorption,” says Vance. “So, despite claims that soy helps prevent osteoporosis, foods that contain phytic acid can actually interfere with the absorption of minerals, possibly leading to mineral deficiencies. Whereas soaking and sprouting other grains and legumes can remove the phytic acid, that does not work with soy, and the only way to neutralize the phytic acid in soy is to ferment it.”

etc It goes on, links at the bottom but still seems a little light to me.

I personally have consumed soy products for years and have neither developed moobs(man boobs) nor had any hormonal problems (have had them checked regularly due to an unrelated issue) or issues with my sperm count (I'm a dad).

Also in contact with a lot of vegan bodybuilders (Tofu tanks) and none of these people seem to have experienced any of these issues.

If anyone could actually provide some reliable links or evidence I would appreciate it.


1*http://www.refinery29.com/is-soy-bad-for-you
2*http://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/nutrition/nutrition+tips/is+soy+good+for+your,8169

Alpina483

Define definitive evidence.
I assume that would be generations long, tens of thousand actual people wide double blind research, well, no one has that kind of money. Or will, for that matter.

On the other hand, everyone knows enough people in the gym to make their own conclusions.

Ophidion

Define definitive evidence.
I assume that would be generations long, tens of thousand actual people wide double blind research, well, no one has that kind of money. Or will, for that matter.

On the other hand, everyone knows enough people in the gym to make their own conclusions.

Definitive as in a study that consists of more than lets say 99 individuals or one that was carried out by a reputable research facility, considering the vast amounts of soy and soy based products being consumed in the world I imagine there would have to be some decent studies carried out.

AngelicxAnnihilation

It's controversial, but I think if you aren't having problems and you like what you're eating, then eat it

Ophidion

I will try to be a little more straight forward with the type of answers I'm looking for...

An actual study with scientific results not just a online blog, article or random paragraph on a health website.

BeardedMike

Scientific studies don't work in such broad terms. There are literally thousands of studies on soys effects in the body, on cholesterol all the way to cancer prevention. Go to google scholar and search around for a review of other studies which match what you are specifically looking for.

You will never find a reputable scientist that says soy is bad or good. Because like everything we eat, its good and bad.

Ophidion

TY this ^is what I was looking for...good answer.

Alpina483

I would play along, but the game is rigged Come on, you said it yourself. Your own experience and that of the vegan bodybuilders in your gym will obviously have more sway here than any study people might throw at you.

And then, like I said, one can always question whether the sample was representative enough, whether the study was long enough to consider all hereditary consequences, etc. You can always say "still seems a little light to me", so why bother, that's no science we are talking here

theoriginaljayne

Well, there's a saying that everything is a poison, given a sufficient amount.
Personally, I'm not worried about my bowl of edamame, given that humans have been cultivating and consuming soy for thousands of years. However, for your researching pleasure:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=soybean
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007204.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480510/

Ophidion

I would play along, but the game is rigged Come on, you said it yourself. Your own experience and that of the vegan bodybuilders in your gym will obviously have more sway here than any study people might throw at you.

And then, like I said, one can always question whether the sample was representative enough, whether the study was long enough to consider all hereditary consequences, etc. You can always say "still seems a little light to me", so why bother, that's no science we are talking here

If you are implying that I am trying to bait people, no that is not the case I have a genuine interest.

No, knowing a handful of vegan body builders will not hold more sway over me than actual significant evidence.

"still seems a little light to me" was in reference to the material I posted I have read other studies on other topics that were convincing just not on soy yet...I do believe in scientific methodology.

Ophidion

Well, there's a saying that everything is a poison, given a sufficient amount.
Personally, I'm not worried about my bowl of edamame, given that humans have been cultivating and consuming soy for thousands of years. However, for your researching pleasure:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=soybean
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007204.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1480510/

Thank you for the links.

benol1

Greetings Ophidian,

I have posted this thread to ask if anyone can provide definitive evidence that soy or soy products are bad for you...not conjecture or bro-science but actual evidence that stands up to scientific scrutiny that is neither a scare tactic or a attempt to further ones own dietary preference.

So far all I have been able to come up with is the following but the sources don't seem considerably reliable and the study's seem to small to be considered definitive proof. (Sorry about the brief sources hence why I am asking for help as I am not very good at this sort of research)

*1 "[Some studies] say that soy can be quite detrimental to your health, and that the isoflavones can interfere with your endocrine system and hormone balance," she says. "This can possibly reduce fertility in women, contribute to premature puberty, and has even been linked to certain cancers and conditions like gyecomastia (male breast development) when consumed in large amounts.”

*2 A review entitled Can Phytoestrogens Cause Infertility?, published in June this year in the international e-journal Arbor Clinical Nutrition Updates (www.nutritionupdates.org), concludes that soy consumption may contribute to infertility. In a study of 99 men, those with the highest soy intake had 41 million less sperm per millilitre than those who ate no soy. In another study, a dozen healthy young men were given two scoops of soy protein powder a day for four weeks.

Their testosterone levels fell by an average of 19 per cent, but returned to normal two weeks after they stopped taking the soy supplement. In the report, the study reviewers acknowledged that most of the evidence of a link between soy and male infertility comes from animal studies as there hasn't been enough conclusive testing in humans yet.


“Soy products are very high in phytic acid, which can interfere with mineral absorption,” says Vance. “So, despite claims that soy helps prevent osteoporosis, foods that contain phytic acid can actually interfere with the absorption of minerals, possibly leading to mineral deficiencies. Whereas soaking and sprouting other grains and legumes can remove the phytic acid, that does not work with soy, and the only way to neutralize the phytic acid in soy is to ferment it.”

etc It goes on, links at the bottom but still seems a little light to me.

I personally have consumed soy products for years and have neither developed moobs(man boobs) nor had any hormonal problems (have had them checked regularly due to an unrelated issue) or issues with my sperm count (I'm a dad).

Also in contact with a lot of vegan bodybuilders (Tofu tanks) and none of these people seem to have experienced any of these issues.

If anyone could actually provide some reliable links or evidence I would appreciate it.


1*http://www.refinery29.com/is-soy-bad-for-you
2*http://www.bodyandsoul.com.au/nutrition/nutrition+tips/is+soy+good+for+your,8169

There is a great deal of misinformation with regards to nutrition. I try to base my dietary choices by peer-reviewed evidence-based science.
The following link (and associated videos) may be of interest to you.
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/soy/
Cheers

Ben

Ophidion

bump one last time

Mother_Superior

I don't know about science, but after a quick Google image search, I did find this. Looks pretty ominous bro.

Ophidion

Did Bob have too much soy in his diet?
ETA: Can't stop looking at the eye twitch.

Ophidion

A very brief summary of the pro/cons of soy I have found...

*Soy is a very complex food. Reviewing the pros and cons, there appears to be cause for confusion, leaving more questions than answers. Soy seems to lower cholesterol levels. Its other effects, whether seen as good or bad, are related to the hormonal changes attributed to it. The soy industry promotes soy products as estrogen substitutes for menopausal women, yet they sell infant formulas and claim there is no important estrogen effect. Some studies conclude that soy prevents cancer; others indicate it causes cancer. Is soy beneficial or detrimental to human health? Is there any clarity to be found in this muddy issue?...basically another maybe.

* The Story of Soy Part 1-Dr. Bernard Presser

Guess I'll post a gif and be done with it for now.

singlefemalelawyer

I want to know more about this. Bump!

My trainer says I should avoid soy but I don't really know why.

lua_

You'll find that if you search hard enough on the internet, everything is bad for you
*storms away and eats soy burger*

jonsey_s

I tastes like crap...yes I do know what crap tastes like.

Eat meat....the cuteness is good for you.

Ophidion

I tastes like crap...yes I do know what crap tastes like.

Eat meat....the cuteness is good for you.

OK and now I know crap taste like soy...good to know.