How to get your VO2 max up to an excellent rating.

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  • CoreyLust
    CoreyLust Posts: 42 Member
    edited March 2020
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    Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »
    @CoreyLust : You're being too dismissive. The VO2max estimate of the Garmin devices follows well-established (and published) protocols. Like many things, it is neither perfect nor is it merely a "gimmick." I would call it a useful feature with some level of inaccuracy.

    You can learn about it in the company "white paper" (which has not been published in a peer-reviewed journal, but it does have a nice list of references).

    https://assets.firstbeat.com/firstbeat/uploads/2017/06/white_paper_VO2max_30.6.2017.pdf

    I have read the "white paper". It only assists anyone who knows what they are actually looking at to conclude that this particular metric as it is estimated (happy?) by a Garmin is of no value.

    Please explain how using this metric is of any value to anyone looking to improve their fitness or performance?

    How would this number allow you to change anything you are doing in a well defined scientific manor?
  • CoreyLust
    CoreyLust Posts: 42 Member
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    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    I honestly think Concept2 has the "highly trained" and "not trained" reversed. Back a couple of years ago, when I did my PB 2K row, it said, assuming I was "highly trained", that my VO2 Max was in the high 50s. But if I entered it in as not trained, it was around a 44, which is a lot more reasonable. Highly trained should not go up, but down, taking into account form and efficiency. The original study defined highly trained as anyone that was over 4 days a week of rowing (I do 6). I've done an hour FTP test last year and tested around 244 (I'm 55). Rowing versus Biking gets dicey on FTP. I know (younger Masters) guys that row full hours that produce roughly 230 Watts avg that can average 300 on the WattBike, so it's apples and oranges. Biking is way more efficient related to Watts.

    Lindsay H, an Australian Masters Indoor Champ, once noted that his VO2 Max, according to the calculator was in the high 50s or low 60s. He's a guy that did a low 6:40 in his 60s, so the Aussie Over the water Olympic team took him in a lab to "study" him. His real VO2 Max was like 45, still ridiculous for a 65 year old. What they ended up finding out was more impressive about him was his ability to work with incredible amount of lactic acid buildup (he could enter a pain cave few could relate to).

    Thank you for allowing me to actually read something on this thread that doesn't make me what to pick my eyes out, lol.

    Yes V02max in and of itself is not a strong predictor of performance. Garmin is just stuffing 'features' into these watches so they can keep selling people the new one the come out with every year or so.

    The 'estimate' (for those who want to quibble over descriptive words in a thread where nobody is looking at this from a scientifically objective standpoint anyway) is so inaccurate it's just amusing. What is more amusing is the metric itself even when accurate means so very little.
  • CoreyLust
    CoreyLust Posts: 42 Member
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    Duck_Puddle wrote: »
    dewd2 wrote: »
    Are you not aware of the test built into many of the recent Garmins? It will guide you through measuring your VO2max. It should be done with an HRM strap and on a flat surface where the workout can be done without interruptions. The weather should be good (temp, wind, and surface should be dry). You also should know your max hr (I cheated at this as it was tested during my VO2max test).

    The other way (the way most here are doing it) is to allow the watch to figure out your VO2max during normal exercise and without the aid of an accurate HRM (the watch is not always accurate). This number can jump all over the place because the watch has no idea what the environment is like nor what your workout purpose it. Add the HRM often giving bad readings and you tend to get inaccurate results.

    Where can I find more info on this? I wasn’t aware that there was a specific test procedure and I’ve reviewed the documentation I could find for my watch and don’t see anything about it?

    My watch produces a new vo2max estimate every time I run outside for more than 10 minutes. Is there a way to turn that off (after doing the test)?

    I’m genuinely curious as my vo2max estimate is roughly 20-25% higher than I would expect it to be (and the race and other predictions Via (Garmin/firstbeat & elsewhere) based on it are also about 20-25% high (or low-whichever way is the “better”)).

    While I don’t really care all that much what my vo2max is, and I know it’s an estimate, I do still assume the general trends to be reasonable. So if there’s a way to improve those estimates, I’d love to know more.

    Are you trying to improve an estimated number or actual performance...
  • Duck_Puddle
    Duck_Puddle Posts: 3,224 Member
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    CoreyLust wrote: »
    Duck_Puddle wrote: »
    dewd2 wrote: »
    Are you not aware of the test built into many of the recent Garmins? It will guide you through measuring your VO2max. It should be done with an HRM strap and on a flat surface where the workout can be done without interruptions. The weather should be good (temp, wind, and surface should be dry). You also should know your max hr (I cheated at this as it was tested during my VO2max test).

    The other way (the way most here are doing it) is to allow the watch to figure out your VO2max during normal exercise and without the aid of an accurate HRM (the watch is not always accurate). This number can jump all over the place because the watch has no idea what the environment is like nor what your workout purpose it. Add the HRM often giving bad readings and you tend to get inaccurate results.

    Where can I find more info on this? I wasn’t aware that there was a specific test procedure and I’ve reviewed the documentation I could find for my watch and don’t see anything about it?

    My watch produces a new vo2max estimate every time I run outside for more than 10 minutes. Is there a way to turn that off (after doing the test)?

    I’m genuinely curious as my vo2max estimate is roughly 20-25% higher than I would expect it to be (and the race and other predictions Via (Garmin/firstbeat & elsewhere) based on it are also about 20-25% high (or low-whichever way is the “better”)).

    While I don’t really care all that much what my vo2max is, and I know it’s an estimate, I do still assume the general trends to be reasonable. So if there’s a way to improve those estimates, I’d love to know more.

    Are you trying to improve an estimated number or actual performance...

    I am questioning the person who posted about this process to find out more info.

    What I choose to do (if anything) with any of my numbers doesn’t matter to anyone but me and my coach.
  • Duck_Puddle
    Duck_Puddle Posts: 3,224 Member
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    dewd2 wrote: »
    Duck_Puddle wrote: »
    dewd2 wrote: »
    Are you not aware of the test built into many of the recent Garmins? It will guide you through measuring your VO2max. It should be done with an HRM strap and on a flat surface where the workout can be done without interruptions. The weather should be good (temp, wind, and surface should be dry). You also should know your max hr (I cheated at this as it was tested during my VO2max test).

    The other way (the way most here are doing it) is to allow the watch to figure out your VO2max during normal exercise and without the aid of an accurate HRM (the watch is not always accurate). This number can jump all over the place because the watch has no idea what the environment is like nor what your workout purpose it. Add the HRM often giving bad readings and you tend to get inaccurate results.

    Where can I find more info on this? I wasn’t aware that there was a specific test procedure and I’ve reviewed the documentation I could find for my watch and don’t see anything about it?

    My watch produces a new vo2max estimate every time I run outside for more than 10 minutes. Is there a way to turn that off (after doing the test)?

    I’m genuinely curious as my vo2max estimate is roughly 20-25% higher than I would expect it to be (and the race and other predictions Via (Garmin/firstbeat & elsewhere) based on it are also about 20-25% high (or low-whichever way is the “better”)).

    While I don’t really care all that much what my vo2max is, and I know it’s an estimate, I do still assume the general trends to be reasonable. So if there’s a way to improve those estimates, I’d love to know more.

    You will get the reading when doing the Guided Lactate Threshold test.

    https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/fenix5x/EN-US/GUID-1B0C9B93-01CD-4A0C-A30F-B815C0347159.html

    BTW - Lactate Threshold is a bit more useful if you are training for a race. VO2max is interesting but it doesn't take into account running economy (not sure how it works on the bike).

    Run the test 10-14 days before getting it done in a lab and compare the results. You may be surprised (well, everyone but CoreyLust who already knows more than everyone else).

    Thank you!

    Lactate threshold is different and yes more valuable as a metric. We do that and the LT estimates are pretty close to any other LT estimates (including based on race/biological performance). I don’t feel a need to get a lab test for anything (yet): The Garmin estimate for LT has been a solid mark for me.

    It’s the Vo2max estimate that’s just very high - but still seems to trend overall how we’d expect based on training. So I was thinking there was a way to maybe dial it in a little.
  • dewd2
    dewd2 Posts: 2,449 Member
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    I only had it tested because it was available to me at discount and only a few miles from my house. I would love to get a real LT test done sometime but I'm not sure I'm into getting my fingers pricked AND that stupid mask at the same time (all while running my *kitten* off on an ever increasingly difficult treadmill).
  • Duck_Puddle
    Duck_Puddle Posts: 3,224 Member
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    dewd2 wrote: »
    I only had it tested because it was available to me at discount and only a few miles from my house. I would love to get a real LT test done sometime but I'm not sure I'm into getting my fingers pricked AND that stupid mask at the same time (all while running my *kitten* off on an ever increasingly difficult treadmill).

    I kind of think that’s like when I say I’m not interested in doing another marathon....(we know that’s going to be a lie).

    Someday the curiously will take over and you’ll be squeezing another 17 seconds off your 5k time or something and you’ll do it.


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