Apple Watch Move Ring / Steps & MFP - HELP!?

vocaldoll

Hi All

I have a couple of Apple Watch queries in relation to it being used in conjunction with MyFitnessPal.

I recently bought this watch / downloaded the app and I’m using it to track my calories each day. I have a few queries though because it has me baffled!

1. The Move Ring: it was my understanding that the move ring calculated your “active calories” throughout the day. If this is the case, why doesn’t the total amount of cals burned, shown in the move ring, cross over to MFP? It seems to only be when I select a workout that the calories are synced with the app, but there is still a large deficit with the cals burned during my workout to the total amount burned on move ring (I’m very active in the house and do a lot of steps!).

2. Number of Steps outside of Workout on Apple Watch: I’ve noticed on MFP that throughout the day, as I’m clocking up my number of steps, MFP adds the calories burned from these steps to my exercise count. As soon as I do a “walking” workout on Apple Watch however, it adds the total calories burned from the workout I’ve completed, but then deletes the calories I’d burned throughout the day through other additional steps. Is there a reason for this?!

Thank you!

Talan79

Apple Watch & MFP don’t integrate well together. Someone here suggested that I download the app Pacer, sync that to Apple Health and MFP.
I’ve done that & it’s working out nicely.
However, I track my weight lifting sessions & outdoor runs in Apple Watch, & it adds it in MFP under exercise. To prevent a double calories situation, I delete the Apple Health workouts (you’ll see it with a heart next to it) & just keep the adjustments from Pacer. You’ll have to sync Pacer to MFP to get the updated adjustment. Also, in MFP, set your activity to sedentary or the adjustment will be too high if you’ve selected lightly active or more.
Back to your question on the more ring. You can adjust your move calorie goal. You can see your total calories vs the active calories in the Apple activity app. The difference bn the two is your resting energy calories. I attached a screenshot for you. Hope this helps.

vocaldoll

Thanks so much for your response.

Just to double check, am I right in thinking that the number of calories is the “move ring” can count towards by daily calorie intake?

Talan79

Yes, I guess. It goes towards your TDEE, the total number you burn.

vocaldoll

Brilliant thanks. The move ring number confuses me a little!

springlering62

I think they sync just fine, that there’s just some confusion how to interpret the data.

When you set your goal on MFP, you specify your activity level. This takes into account steps that you would do as part of your regular level of activity. Those don’t, and shouldn’t, count toward exercise calories.

However, if you activate an intentional exercise, something that’s outside of your normal activity level, then apple does track calories for that event.

So if you start a “walk”, this is an intentional exercise you are doing to burn calories, causing the watch tracks the speed, heart rate, etc and records the calories burned for that particular activity, and applies them to MFP as calories earned.

So for example, your activity level is high, and you do 10,000 steps just getting through your day. Choosing “high” takes those steps into account when determining your calorie goal. You shouldn’t get exercise points for those steps. Then, when you start a workout, be it walk, run, elliptical, yoga etc, this is a planned event over and above your regular 10,000 and should and do count.

heybales

springlering62 wrote: »

I think they sync just fine, that there’s just some confusion how to interpret the data.

When you set your goal on MFP, you specify your activity level. This takes into account steps that you would do as part of your regular level of activity. Those don’t, and shouldn’t, count toward exercise calories.

However, if you activate an intentional exercise, something that’s outside of your normal activity level, then apple does track calories for that event.

So if you start a “walk”, this is an intentional exercise you are doing to burn calories, causing the watch tracks the speed, heart rate, etc and records the calories burned for that particular activity, and applies them to MFP as calories earned.

So for example, your activity level is high, and you do 10,000 steps just getting through your day. Choosing “high” takes those steps into account when determining your calorie goal. You shouldn’t get exercise points for those steps. Then, when you start a workout, be it walk, run, elliptical, yoga etc, this is a planned event over and above your regular 10,000 and should and do count.

Trying to set a truer activity level based on what the watch says for Move calories may be useful since Apple doesn't send anything about that extra calorie burn to MFP.

But there is still a problem.

Apple sends as your daily burn the Sedentary daily burn it estimates (which is close to MFP sedentary).
So you'd get a negative calorie adjustment since MFP has you at say Active burning 2500, and Apple reported you burned 2000.

The other problem with direct sync is the workouts come over, and for MFP to avoid double counting what it assumes is contained within the TDEE figure sent, it subtracts the workouts out.

But from Apple the daily burn didn't actually contain the workouts. So the adjustment has workout calories incorrectly taken out.

For food goal it wipes out that difference (subtract exercise then add back in) - but it means you get no credit for extra daily moving and in fact negative, and workouts don't count at all to correctly increase your eating goal.

It's a mess - you have to use Pacer if you want any decent estimate of eating goal based on actual activity.

heybales

vocaldoll wrote: »

Thanks so much for your response.

Just to double check, am I right in thinking that the number of calories is the “move ring” can count towards by daily calorie intake?

It should but it doesn't.

Go look at MFP exercise diary for that line about Apple Adjustment - tap and hold to read the details.
Under full day projection will be Apple reported daily burn and time stamp. Past day is best to use, should say 11:59pm.
That figure divided by 1.25 is probably really close to your BMR.

deniseg31

Got an Apple watch for mothers day and just now starting back up on MFP and am having such a hard time figuring everything out and getting everything to work in unison. I think I'm just going to take it off my watch and add the calories myself. Now I'm just wondering if I should add all the active calories from my workout or just the "active" ones.

heybales

deniseg31 wrote: »

Got an Apple watch for mothers day and just now starting back up on MFP and am having such a hard time figuring everything out and getting everything to work in unison. I think I'm just going to take it off my watch and add the calories myself. Now I'm just wondering if I should add all the active calories from my workout or just the "active" ones.

Apple has base calories - about equal to MFP's sedentary value.

Move and Exercise calories both add to your base burn.

A reasonable deficit should be taken off your total daily burn.

What does MFP need to know about to get a total daily burn, what is it missing?

Or look over a months worth of stats on Apple Move calories and see what that and base burn average out to.
Select MFP activity level that gets you close to that total.
Log your workouts only.

Duck_Puddle

deniseg31 wrote: »

Got an Apple watch for mothers day and just now starting back up on MFP and am having such a hard time figuring everything out and getting everything to work in unison. I think I'm just going to take it off my watch and add the calories myself. Now I'm just wondering if I should add all the active calories from my workout or just the "active" ones.

Are you planning to sync your watch with mfp? Or just manually add the workouts?

If you’re just adding the workouts-add the “active” calories. The total calories is how many calories you burned from when you hit start to when you stopped the workout. The active calories is how many you burned actually working out (vs how many you would burn sitting on the couch).

If you’re planning to use a daily total of some kind, I would sync through the pacer app. I would not just slap the overall daily “move” calories into mfp. That’s how many calories you burned while moving-which is going to include an inconsistent amount of regular everyday movement - some of which will be included in your mfp base (but an inconsistent amount).

kcabral80

i was just coming into this forum to post about this issue. Its frustrating that my total active calories are not taken into consideration with respect to my daily calorie goal. When i had a fitbit, it was able to add extra calories to my day based on the amount of activity done above and beyond my "activity level" setting in my profile. Now i lose all of my active calories burned outside of tracking a workout....seems like a quick software update to solve this bug!

heybales

kcabral80 wrote: »

i was just coming into this forum to post about this issue. Its frustrating that my total active calories are not taken into consideration with respect to my daily calorie goal. When i had a fitbit, it was able to add extra calories to my day based on the amount of activity done above and beyond my "activity level" setting in my profile. Now i lose all of my active calories burned outside of tracking a workout....seems like a quick software update to solve this bug!

True - Apple's account would merely have to point to a different field to sync the value over, or add the 3 fields together and send that figure.

That's all, 1 silly pointer.
But they do things their way.

springlering62

I’ve checked random days on watch versus MFP.

Watch is reporting only active calories to MFP, which is posting them correctly, which is all I ask of either to do.

The rings do appear to be based on total rather than active calories , however that’s not a problem for me. I do a ton of activity that I do not record as exercise, and which most likely often exceeds the “active” user designation.

I basically use the rings to make sure I’m staying active enough to keep them rotating around the dial. If it gets mid afternoon and the “move” ring has only rotated twice, that sets off a mental alarm bell, unless I know I have evening classes scheduled.

As long as Apple is reporting correctly to MFP, I’m good, because that’s my go-to source of final information.

heybales

springlering62 wrote: »

I’ve checked random days on watch versus MFP.

Watch is reporting only active calories to MFP, which is posting them correctly, which is all I ask of either to do.

The rings do appear to be based on total rather than active calories , however that’s not a problem for me. I do a ton of activity that I do not record as exercise, and which most likely often exceeds the “active” user designation.

I basically use the rings to make sure I’m staying active enough to keep them rotating around the dial. If it gets mid afternoon and the “move” ring has only rotated twice, that sets off a mental alarm bell, unless I know I have evening classes scheduled.

As long as Apple is reporting correctly to MFP, I’m good, because that’s my go-to source of final information.

If you feel so inclined - would you be able to take a past recent day that had a workout synced over, and do the screen shot of the Exercise Diary, and also the more info on the Apple Adjustment?
Perhaps comment if the final reading of daily burn from Apple indeed matches what is reported there?

Thanks.

I'm beginning to wonder if MFP is using their Apple watch app to get around prior issue.

springlering62

Crossing fingers MFP will allow this many images. This is yesterday. MFP shows exercise at 838. Apple shows exercise or “Active” calories totals 828. Sometimes one or the other does calculations to the decimal points.

springlering62

BTW steps would have been totally wonky yesterday. I did a lot of crocheting and apple picks that up as steps. Another reason I like that it doesn’t include steps as exercise unless I activate an exercise mode.

springlering62

And here is Tuesday. It was 4 calories out, again probably fractional. I have activity level set to high, and I don’t count steps as exercise unless they are specifically part of an exercise. For example I walk .25 miles to the running trail. I count that as a short walk because it’s part of my run.

BTW I thoroughly enjoyed some excellent fajitas and a bowl of chips this day, lol.

heybales

springlering62 wrote: »

BTW steps would have been totally wonky yesterday. I did a lot of crocheting and apple picks that up as steps. Another reason I like that it doesn’t include steps as exercise unless I activate an exercise mode.

So for that stated desire it is working well for you.

Not correctly compared to Garmin & Fitbit and couple of others.

Because I'm doubtful that the full count of those steps and calories earned from the distance was totally a part of the exercise calories.

So if someone just had a bunch of active walking during the day but never got it as part of a workout on Apple, it appears it would never show up on MFP as extra activity to count towards increasing your daily burn.

With the way it reads out - I also think this is the function of using the MFP app settings for Step Source set to Apple Watch, whereby it really just gets a step count - MFP estimates some rough calories from it.
And then any workouts that show up removes the extra step calories because MFP doesn't know if there was overlap - so to avoid double counting - removes it.

So the detail by pressing and holding on the Apple Watch Calorie Adjustment has nothing?

springlering62

heybales wrote: »

So if someone just had a bunch of active walking during the day but never got it as part of a workout on Apple, it appears it would never show up on MFP as extra activity to count towards increasing your daily burn.

With the way it reads out - I also think this is the function of using the MFP app settings for Step Source set to Apple Watch, whereby it really just gets a step count - MFP estimates some rough calories from it.

And then any workouts that show up removes the extra step calories because MFP doesn't know if there was overlap - so to avoid double counting - removes it.

that’s because when you set it up, you choose your activity level, i.e. sedentary, highly active etc. I chose highly active because I seldom drive and walk everywhere I go. I don’t count those walks as exercise unless they are specifically part of a designated walk or run. They are, by default, part of my “highly active” choice, and thus I already get extra calories for them since my base rate is higher, I wouldn’t want them counted again. IMHO the total steps is just an informational thing, outside the bounds of the calories burned for exercise caption.

So the detail by pressing and holding on the Apple Watch Calorie Adjustment has nothing?

what’s this you say? I’ve never heard of this, I’m afraid to try tinkering with it for fear of messing up what I’ve got, which is working quite well for me.

heybales

Ahh - so your Move ring doesn't increase much because your Base goal is already pretty high?

I'm just curious what the Adjustment line says when you press and hold and view more details on it. There should be more details.

springlering62

Where is this function at?

heybales

springlering62 wrote: »

Where is this function at?

That line that says Calorie Adjustment in Exercise Diary.
For app you press and hold to get to new screen.
For web account you click on it to see new screen.

That screen is what shows what the device actually sent, and when.
Unless it's not synced, in which case it's steps and MFP estimate of it.

springlering62

You mean here? It always says zero. That’s what I’d expect since the specific steps for exercise are already counted under exercise calories, and the remainder are accounted for under TDEE for “highly active”.

There wouldn’t be any reason for a further adjustment.

heybales

That was the screen.

The math that is normally shown there still takes into account all the things you mentioned - it just displays the figures. If the accounts are synced.

But that tells me MFP is merely using the watch for steps - it's not getting any calorie info from the Apple health at all.
MFP would be calculating a rough calorie burn for those steps (as opposed to a device getting a distance from the steps, and calories from the distance).
But since MFP doesn't know about potential overlap or not of those steps and workouts, it removes the extra "step" calories for each workout that shows up.

You can actually do the same thing with Fitbit and Garmin - don't sync accounts, merely say to use the device (even a phone) as a step counter.
Same effect.

You may even be getting negative adjustments you don't see since disabled.
Meaning MFP had an extra calorie burn, but the workouts removed enough and more to go negative there, since the workouts go positive.

Duck_Puddle

heybales wrote: »

That was the screen.

The math that is normally shown there still takes into account all the things you mentioned - it just displays the figures. If the accounts are synced.

But that tells me MFP is merely using the watch for steps - it's not getting any calorie info from the Apple health at all.
MFP would be calculating a rough calorie burn for those steps (as opposed to a device getting a distance from the steps, and calories from the distance).
But since MFP doesn't know about potential overlap or not of those steps and workouts, it removes the extra "step" calories for each workout that shows up.

You can actually do the same thing with Fitbit and Garmin - don't sync accounts, merely say to use the device (even a phone) as a step counter.
Same effect.

You may even be getting negative adjustments you don't see since disabled.
Meaning MFP had an extra calorie burn, but the workouts removed enough and more to go negative there, since the workouts go positive.

Need to click one more time on that screen to get to the screen where the math is. That is what it shows when the adjustment amount is 0-even if info is being fed.

springlering62

Well son of a gun. There IS a third screen. These devices are rabbit holes.

Now I’m utterly confused. I have no idea what anything is telling me anymore, however, I’m going to continue to do it my way, which has worked very well for me. I’m 90 pounds down and I’m still losing, will go into maintenance as soon as lockdown completely lifted and I can get back to normal.

I had just increased calories to 2300 to begin recomp, but lowered them to 1900 in March and made a goal to rotate my move ring 3x a day during all this. The weight has fallen off, so I may have been too brutal.

If anyone cares here’s the screen that goes with the post I made above.

heybales

Oh, your setup is allowing what normally doesn't work well to actually work well - in general and for you.

So this is the option to not link accounts - but just grab steps from the watch.
(that line under full day projection on a linked account gives the TDEE value from the device account - "Based on 3286 calories burned as of 11:59 pm")
(that is where on a linked Apple account it just reports it's own base sedentary calories, not actually the TDEE)

Your MFP estimated daily activity burn looks like it would be 2166. (base burn 2166+ known exercise 756 =2922)

MFP's estimate of daily burn with those steps in there is the 2665.

So normally with your selected activity level on MFP, and known workouts, MFP is expecting you'd have burned 2922.

But based on Steps and extra calories, minus calories from known workouts - you are getting to keep 27 of them, leading to a still estimated burn of 2665.

So really MFP thinks you burned 257 less than it was expecting anyway, based on your selected activity level and known workouts.

I'm curious on that day, in your Apple account - what did it show for the total calorie burn for the day?

And it had those same workouts in there, right?

And yes, not trying to fix anything, merely curious if it looks like MPF semi-corrected the issue with their iWatch app.