Garmin recording and calorie adjustments

heybales

richiechowns wrote: »

So MFP at your selected Activity Level thinks your burn 2619 NEAT (no exercise). (with base eating goal 1560, did you set a manual eating level since that is greater than 1000 deficit?)
Or 1.81875/min.

At 8:27 pm, you had 213 min left of the day - or 387 calories at MFP rate.

Fitbit said you burned 3264 at that time plus rest the day 387 = 3651 projected for day.

Projected 3651 - MFP 2619 - 430 exercise = 602 adjustment

Base eating goal 1560 + 602 adjustment + 430 workouts = 2592 new eating goal.

goal 2592 - 2113 eaten so far = 479 left for the day. But this is just result of other math, I'd ignore it while working out whatever issue you think you have.

So the math all works out correctly on MFP.

Perhaps you think the non-exercise part of your extra daily activity is too high?
Like the Garmin reported daily burn is too high?

Have you ever walked a known distance at average daily pace (2 mph) and confirmed Garmin had it correct?
Your stride length setting could be off - you are given greater distance than reality - causes greater calorie burn.

As it's been mentioned - don't even attempt to follow 2 roads to the same destination, and in this case the Garmin eating goal is based on who knows what.
I've seen that RMR calories figure float around day to day, and since it's part of Active calories that is added to base eating goal - just forget it.

Edit to add: Look at a months worth of Garmin daily burns - was there a big increase at the point you started seeing bigger adjustments?

As you can see from the math, which is pretty simple - anything you see on the MFP side is merely a result of the Garmin figures sent.
Did your weight or height go up accidentally? That would result in a bigger base burn and higher estimated daily burn.
So don't even look at the adjustments - look at the Garmin figures, that's where it matters.

richiechowns

Duck_Puddle wrote: »

Can you do a screenshot of your mfp diary with the Garmin calculation for yesterday-but with the full day actual? The screenshot you have still shows an estimate as it’s based on what you burned through 8:30 PM.

You can skip the Garmin connect screen shots as mentioned before-that’s adding your “active calories” to your mfp base calorie goal-which isn’t how your goal is calculated nor is it relevant as it’s an attempt to use two entirely different systems together.

Meaning-whatever that says has nothing to do with anything. It MIGHT be kinda sorta a little bit close if your activity level settings on mfp and Garmin connect are the same. But even that is not likely because mfp has 4 choices and Garmin has 10. So your Garmin connect could say you’re over 193958696060 calories or -700 and it makes no difference. It’s adding apples to oranges and then telling you how many bananas you can eat.

But if you can give us a screenshot of your mfp just as you did above-but for the whole day (meaning the Garmin calories burned will say “based on calories burned as of 11:59PM”)

There is no full day actual, it still shows as a projection as of 8:30, but to be fair I'd put my watch on charge and had an early night...

richiechowns

heybales wrote: »

richiechowns wrote: »

So MFP at your selected Activity Level thinks your burn 2619 NEAT (no exercise). (with base eating goal 1560, did you set a manual eating level since that is greater than 1000 deficit?)
Or 1.81875/min.

At 8:27 pm, you had 213 min left of the day - or 387 calories at MFP rate.

Fitbit said you burned 3264 at that time plus rest the day 387 = 3651 projected for day.

Projected 3651 - MFP 2619 - 430 exercise = 602 adjustment

Base eating goal 1560 + 602 adjustment + 430 workouts = 2592 new eating goal.

goal 2592 - 2113 eaten so far = 479 left for the day. But this is just result of other math, I'd ignore it while working out whatever issue you think you have.

So the math all works out correctly on MFP.

Perhaps you think the non-exercise part of your extra daily activity is too high?
Like the Garmin reported daily burn is too high?

Have you ever walked a known distance at average daily pace (2 mph) and confirmed Garmin had it correct?
Your stride length setting could be off - you are given greater distance than reality - causes greater calorie burn.

As it's been mentioned - don't even attempt to follow 2 roads to the same destination, and in this case the Garmin eating goal is based on who knows what.
I've seen that RMR calories figure float around day to day, and since it's part of Active calories that is added to base eating goal - just forget it.

Edit to add: Look at a months worth of Garmin daily burns - was there a big increase at the point you started seeing bigger adjustments?

As you can see from the math, which is pretty simple - anything you see on the MFP side is merely a result of the Garmin figures sent.
Did your weight or height go up accidentally? That would result in a bigger base burn and higher estimated daily burn.
So don't even look at the adjustments - look at the Garmin figures, that's where it matters.

So probably best to put some context to things. I was, up until the birth of my daughter last July, a marathon runner, training on average 50 miles a week, resting HR is 34bpm. I then went through a period of running less up to Christmas and then early this year dropped off quite a bit due to an injury, gaining around 10 to 15lbs.

In the last 6 weeks I've started a high intensity workout programme 5 days a week, started eating a much better diet and then over the past few weeks, started tracking on here again. So I put in my starting weight 163lbs, with the goal of losing 1kg a week. I put in my activity level as moderate and MFP then calculated the 1560 cals per day. Potentially my Garmin is set too high. I'm now 157lb, so on the face of it, the diet is working anyway.

I don't believe I have a stride length setting but Garmin will use GPS to track distance anyway and has always been spot on when running, walking seems good as well.

I may be missing something but I cannot see the 2619 NEAT?

Thanks for your input 👍

heybales

MFP Calories Burned: 3049 - 430 known workouts = 2619 base burn expected.

That's what it knows about.

So I still don't see how you could have gotten greater than 1000 cal deficit - which is max.
And considering your calculated MFP daily NEAT burn would have been even higher at higher weight - makes less sense.

If this is a daily activity tracker there is a stride length. GPS used for workouts.
If only a workout watch, then no stride length.

What device are you using?

Here's a tracker under Device User Settings.



So if this is not an activity tracker - I'm not sure what Garmin would be sending to MFP besides only workouts.
I'll admit I never attempted to sync accounts when I only had the FR310XT.

If no daily tracker - then Garmin is calculating your daily burn based on something, and finding extra calories.
Perhaps part of the problem.
I don't know what you mean about potentially Garmin is set too high though - you mean for your weight being old and heavier?
That would be a problem.

Was that an MFP Activity Level of Moderate you selected?
I heard they changed the app term for Sedentary, but hadn't heard on other levels. There did not used to be a moderate level, rather Lightly-Active, Active, Very Active.

Also just noticed you flip-flopped between weight in lbs but loss rate in kg?
You got all your stats entered in correct amounts?

ETA: the greater than 1000 deficit is likely the fact you do have a loss rate in KG.
Still max for sounds like not much left to lose - certainly not over 50 lbs to make that rate reasonable.

richiechowns

heybales wrote: »

MFP Calories Burned: 3049 - 430 known workouts = 2619 base burn expected.

That's what it knows about.

So I still don't see how you could have gotten greater than 1000 cal deficit - which is max.
And considering your calculated MFP daily NEAT burn would have been even higher at higher weight - makes less sense.

If this is a daily activity tracker there is a stride length. GPS used for workouts.
If only a workout watch, then no stride length.

What device are you using?

Here's a tracker under Device User Settings.



So if this is not an activity tracker - I'm not sure what Garmin would be sending to MFP besides only workouts.
I'll admit I never attempted to sync accounts when I only had the FR310XT.

If no daily tracker - then Garmin is calculating your daily burn based on something, and finding extra calories.
Perhaps part of the problem.
I don't know what you mean about potentially Garmin is set too high though - you mean for your weight being old and heavier?
That would be a problem.

Was that an MFP Activity Level of Moderate you selected?
I heard they changed the app term for Sedentary, but hadn't heard on other levels. There did not used to be a moderate level, rather Lightly-Active, Active, Very Active.

Also just noticed you flip-flopped between weight in lbs but loss rate in kg?
You got all your stats entered in correct amounts?

ETA: the greater than 1000 deficit is likely the fact you do have a loss rate in KG.
Still max for sounds like not much left to lose - certainly not over 50 lbs to make that rate reasonable.

So I've checked device settings and the stride length for both walking and running is set to off, so I don't know how it calculates steps during tracking. It's a Garmin Forerunner 235.

When I said Garmin was set too high, I was talking about activity level, as it was set to 8 based on how much I was out running before, every day. MFP is set to Active, not Moderate - my mistake. Interestingly, I just dropped it to Lightly Active and it dropped my goal cals to 1500 then back to Active and my cals went to 1540, rather than 1560 as before.

Yeah my stats are correct, 157lbs with a 6lb weight loss. I've around 7lbs to go but doing circuits with body weight stuff, likely I'll stabilise soon and then it'll be a case of maintaining. I'm just trying to drop my BF% a bit and tone/strength train to avoid any further running niggles.

heybales

Ah, I thought that Activity Level when 10 levels was mentioned, wanted to confirm.
That's only about exercise, and it's only used for the calculation of HR-based calorie burn. Improves accuracy of VO2 calculation.
Whole study on NASA employees and measurements and huge database.
Must have a bearing on their RMR stat though, interesting.

Anyway, being set to Moderate would explain the high MFP estimated NEAT calorie burn.
That's 1.6 x BMR.
So that's why the estimate for rest of the day is higher than I thought.
If you have eaten to goal on regular basis - I'm actually surprised you haven't noticed looking at prior day and seeing you are in the red. Or you are up until midnight snacking if the calories allow it.

So the FR235 is a daily activity tracker. Mine doesn't have GPS though, so perhaps that's the difference.
As to why there is no stride length setting, huh.
They all start off with a default based on gender and height. Obviously long or short legs compared to avg throws that default off.

Google says that device starts the change on the device - you tell it you'll do a known distance and it watches the steps.
You should do a known distance walk at 2 mph to confirm it's right. No GPS or it'll probably use that, not stride length setting.
If it's right on use the default. If not do the change routine.
Might be good for running too, though using GPS would only matter in a long tunnel or cave runs.

I am curious if the Garmin is reading high, or you are just more active than you think many days.

richiechowns

@heybales I'm not sure I understand the comments reference prior day? I'm certainly not up until midnight and have only really gone over by <50 calories when I do. I tend to be close to the 1560 + exercise + adjustment but will ignore the adjustment is it is really high as shown on the day in question. When dropping to lightly active the goal only changes by 60 calories anyway.

Yes I suspect there is a default stride setting I can change, while running, including set distance races, my watch has generally been correct - other than with marathon where you weave a lot over the longer distance. I've recently also fitted a Garmin foot pod to my shoes but only wear these outside, I tend to record a walking activity using GPS now so distance and pace is calculated, with calories as well.

heybales

Running and walking are each their own stride length setting, accuracy at one doesn't mean accuracy at both.
Decent indicator perhaps it's right, but may not be.

The reason I mention this is because it seems you think the adjustment is too high.
That would be because the Garmin estimate of daily burn is higher than you think it should be.
Daily activity burn is calculated based on the distance your daily steps takes you (plus BMR).
Therefore it comes down to stride length (or tons of false steps).

That's why I specifically say a known distance walk at 2 mph. That's avg daily pace for post.
When device is set correctly for that pace, it can dynamically adjust down to grocery store shuffle and up to exercise walks and maintain good accuracy of distance.

GPS accurate distance for exercise walks and runs doesn't matter to that whole daily aspect.


Prior day, look at your Food Diary is all I meant - if you met eating goal night before, you should not be the next day.
Because the last time you look at it in the evening if before midnight, MFP is estimating rest of your day is burning 1.6 x BMR.
You are likely NOT moderate activity level until midnight, you are likely having little to no steps rest of the night.
And the next morning on Garmin syncing that fact to MFP, MFP will lower the prior day's eating goal.
If you had been at goal prior night, next morning will show over.
Just a known side effect of selecting a high MFP activity level.
Though that does mean your adjustments are even less than they would be set to Sedentary (not active).
That screen shot you gave where I calculated MFP gave you 387 rest of the day at 8:30 pm - you'd lose 145 of that for instance the next morning.
That 145 cal loss of deficit would matter if set to reasonable rate of loss.
Normally 7 lbs to go should be lowest rate of loss, around 250 cal deficit.
Your higher setting is likely not so stressful on your body as it would be because of that loss of deficit.
And perhaps sloppy food logging is removing more of the deficit - and you are left with an actual reasonable one.

And as several have mentioned - those Garmin settings you are changing that is changing Garmin's eating goal - forget them - use MFP.
The changing of MFP activity level will change the base eating goal - it should have changed it 327 cal less.
So not sure what you are looking at to see only 60.
That also means your adjustment will go up by 327 cal.

Again - MFP is merely trying to correct itself to the figures your Garmin sees - assuming rightfully so it is more accurate for your actual activity level then guessing from 4 levels and logging exercise correctly.

But if it's all working out for you, and merely curious about why the large adjustments - you know the potential reason why is on the Garmin side not MFP, and how to test for where it may be.

richiechowns

@heybales thanks, I'll keep an eye on how things go. One thing is for sure, I'm weighing and measuring all the food and drink I consume, so that is spot on!

richiechowns

So I walked a known, measured (UKA certified) distance yesterday of 1 mile, it took 1885 steps. When inputting into Garmin it only had fields of number of steps and distance, so not speed or time. Hopefully, this will now give a more accurate step count reading.

richiechowns

So after a few weeks I'm still getting big adjustments coming late in the day.

I've set MFP to sedentary and maintenance cals as I do the desk job and want to recomp, I record 1 to 2 morning workouts which have a mix of Cardio and strength exercises.

I'm doing 10k plus steps most days, a lot will come from the exercise and then rest from a daily walk. As I was still getting the big adjustments I removed the custom stride and will redo it once I can get to an open running track and walk 800m at 2mph. Either way though, the big adjustments seem to come late in the day.

I'll continue to monitor it.

heybales

Garmin is different than Fitbit in regard to estimating daily burn without the device syncing up current data.

Fitbit assumes by default a rate of burn barely above BMR, and as it goes up 100 cal more than prior sync, will send new data to MFP.
That rate of burn results in neg adjustment since at minimum MFP is assuming BMR x 1.25 rate of burn.
When Fitbit gets a a device sync, of course the value can really go up.
But most with Fitbit's seem to sync all day long.

Garmin assumes no daily burn until device reports in. So nothing sent to MFP until that happens.
And default device sync setting is for 1-2 times daily - so later in day anyway.

richiechowns

heybales wrote: »

Garmin is different than Fitbit in regard to estimating daily burn without the device syncing up current data.

Fitbit assumes by default a rate of burn barely above BMR, and as it goes up 100 cal more than prior sync, will send new data to MFP.
That rate of burn results in neg adjustment since at minimum MFP is assuming BMR x 1.25 rate of burn.
When Fitbit gets a a device sync, of course the value can really go up.
But most with Fitbit's seem to sync all day long.

Garmin assumes no daily burn until device reports in. So nothing sent to MFP until that happens.
And default device sync setting is for 1-2 times daily - so later in day anyway.

Thanks heybales, I think I am getting my head around it, but does make it difficult to plan for when you don't have a set routine.