Your advice - to reach my body fat goal, should I keep losing weight or stop to focus on muscle?

tpbaehr

The Short Story
I've successfully lost a lot of weight in the last few months, trying to get from a body fat of over 25% down to 15% (currently just under 20%). But I did some things wrong at first (not enough protein) and feel like I've lost muscle. I don't want to end up 15% and scrawny. Not going for bodybuilder, just fit.

I want to be more confident of my next steps. Do I lose more weight or stop now and focus on muscle to reach my goal?

That's the short of it, feel free to skip the rest, unless you want the full details...

All the Gory Details
So I've been at this since mid-Feb, when I got up one morning feeling pretty meh about my tubby tum. My pants were pinching, I'd already upped a size, and I could see where I was headed if I didn't take action.

I decided to watch what I ate (thanks MFP!) and up my exercises. I'd already for about 7 years been doing 3 circuits of the classic 7min HIIT bodyweight workout 3x a week (takes about 24m each go with the rests). I also live a pretty active lifestyle - we live off grid on a large property, I'm constantly (like a few times a week) cutting or splitting wood for our boiler, plus we have a big family and my kids keep me on my feet. So I wasn't totally unhealthy, but I still had gained a lot of fat.

Not any more. Since Feb, I've lost 11.5kg (25lb / 1.75st). From a starting weight of 92kg (203lb / 14.4st), I'm now hovering around 80.5kg (177.5lb / 12.6st). I've received some pretty kind comments, and my wife has been very positive.

My goal is 77kg, based on a few calculations of what is ideal for my height (182 / 5'11.5") given my goal body fat (15%).

I'm currently a little under 20% body fat, using the navy method / measuring tape, plus estimating from index pictures. My body fat scale, which I don't really trust, says something similar. If I keep up my current pace, I'll be at my goal weight in 7 weeks.

So far, I've done this by watching calories (500g deficit a day), no fad diet (I eat chocolate, carbs, fat, desserts most days, alcohol a 1 or 2x a week). And by switching up my workout to some more intense bodyweight exercises 4 or 5 times a week, using apps (first the LoseWeightApp from HomeWorkouts, then Fitbod, but currently Nike Training). On top of that, I'm also currently on day 16 of a PLP challenge - cycling through lunges, chin ups, push ups, dips, and hanging leg lifts. Again, this is in addition to my workouts.

(As an aside, only the chin ups are hard for me. I only just started them with this challenge, and they are a struggle. At the opposite extreme, ab exercises never feel difficult. I can hold a plank for like two minutes without my abs feeling much, but my arms give out from discomfort. I reckon this was b/c 25 years ago my HS girlfriend made me do 60 sit ups / leg lifts a day for years. Not that I've ever seen my abs ).

Where I'm at now?
So as I've been going along, I've been learning a lot about losing weight while gaining muscle. I realised I needed to up my protein, as I feel like I've been losing muscle. (Though mabye it's just in my head, b/c my body is slimmer and what I thought was muscle was actually fat?)

Now for about three weeks I've been aiming for the goal of 1g protein per pound of goal weight. I like natural, as far as possible - hence my love of bodyweight exercises – so I'm getting all my protein from my meals when possible, plus natural whey and crickets. Yes, crickets. I am eating 2tsp of cricket powder in my tea or yoghurt every single day! (hot tip: crickets taste best in tea, where the drink takes on a malty flavour. From experience, it's tricky to hide the dog-kibble taste of crickets - better to work with them than mask them.)

What Next?
Looking at my body in the mirror, I'm torn about what to do next. I can still see tum, I can still pinch a lot of fat. I'm starting to get definition in my arms, but that's about it. But I'm worried that pressing on from 80.5 to 77 will make me pretty scrawny, with no muscles.

I think the protein is helping. So are is the PLP challenge, especially the chin ups and dips. And I think I've got a good natural frame - medium boned, good shoulders (my wife tells me all the time) and 'dancers legs' (weird, I know - but mum used to say it growing up, and I've had people assume I was a dancer b/c of my legs!).

So the question again…

• Do I keep pressing on for the next 7 weeks to hit the 15% mark mainly by weight loss?
  OR
• Am I making a mistake. Should I stop now at 80.5kg / just under 20% and work on regaining muscle?

Some of the articles I've seen suggest "press on to 15%", but again, I'm not going for scrawny. I'm also not going for 'built' either (don't love the bulging veins), just fit.

Thanks!

tpbaehr

If this is the wrong place to post this question, is there a way to cross post or move the post elsewhere?

I put it here bc more about muscle than weight.

tpbaehr

Ok - I’ve felt pretty happy with my results the last few days, from PLP and weight loss, so I’m just going to go for it. I’ll come back in seven weeks or so and say how it went.

sheena_shewell

You won't really know your bf% until you actually get some type of body scan. Are you male or female? 15% body fat is very low for a female and not recommended. Also in regards to body fat on your stomach we all have it only thing that can fix it is your diet and macros. Upping protein will definitely help. I've lost nearly 20kgs and still have a little bit of fat around the lower abdomen area is pretty normal especially for women. If you want to look leaner strength training will help and no you won't get big or bulky it takes years for that to happen...

cupcakesandproteinshakes

sheena_shewell wrote: »

You won't really know your bf% until you actually get some type of body scan. Are you male or female? 15% body fat is very low for a female and not recommended. Also in regards to body fat on your stomach we all have it only thing that can fix it is your diet and macros. Upping protein will definitely help. I've lost nearly 20kgs and still have a little bit of fat around the lower abdomen area is pretty normal especially for women. If you want to look leaner strength training will help and no you won't get big or bulky it takes years for that to happen...

15 per cent is low for a woman but why do you say it isn’t recommended? Female Competitors may maintain this level of body fat.

tpbaehr

Thanks! I’m male. I’ve decided to stop losing at 79kg instead of 77kg. Will be checking body fat tomorrow.

GaryRuns

Profile says male so 15% is fine, some might even say it's a bit high if you're looking to bulk, as a male.

Sounds like you want to lose fat and it sounds like you've been pretty successful at that so far. Why not just keep doing what you're doing? If you want to gain muscle you can absolutely do that while you lose fat, especially since you're above 10% body fat. Look for topics here on recomposition, or recomp. There's some question about the ability to gain muscle when you're below 10% body fat but most of us mere mortal males don't have to worry about that. Will it be optimal, to lose fat while gaining muscle? No. You'll gain more muscle more quickly if you are in a calorie surplus. But, again, it sounds like your goal is more to lose fat, so concentrate on losing fat.

I say do what you've been doing, keep your protein at about 1g/lb (2.2g/kg) of your goal weight and stay in a calorie deficit and then reassess when you reach your body fat goal.

I will say that you have to be more thoughtful with body weight exercises if your goal is to gain muscle. The trick for increasing muscle mass is to progressively increase resistance. At first you can do that by adding more repetitions of a particular body-weight exercise, but at some point that will quit working. You can do it, and I've seen some folks with pretty impressive results using body-weight exercises, but you have to be more creative about applying progressive overload.

And there are different quality levels of protein when it comes to building muscle. For example, some plant based proteins are less effective than animal based proteins when it comes to muscle building. But I'm not aware of any studies on insect-based protein sources with regards to muscle building. It'd be an interesting research topic, as long as I'm not one of the research subjects in the study! lol.

tpbaehr

Thanks Gary for the encouragement. Seriously appreciate it.

For now, I’ve decided to take a pause. I’ve been going straight for four months with weight loss, and I’m just tired of eating at a deficit/always being hungry. I did my maintenance calculations, and I’m eating like 750cal under. So I’m going for a bit - keep exercising seriously, and maintaining - but pause in intentional weight loss for now.

sheena_shewell

cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »

sheena_shewell wrote: »

You won't really know your bf% until you actually get some type of body scan. Are you male or female? 15% body fat is very low for a female and not recommended. Also in regards to body fat on your stomach we all have it only thing that can fix it is your diet and macros. Upping protein will definitely help. I've lost nearly 20kgs and still have a little bit of fat around the lower abdomen area is pretty normal especially for women. If you want to look leaner strength training will help and no you won't get big or bulky it takes years for that to happen...

15 per cent is low for a woman but why do you say it isn’t recommended? Female Competitors may maintain this level of body fat.

It isn't recommended for women to have body fat this low because it can cause fertility issues it's different for body builders because they're intentionally aiming for a very low bf%. For the average woman bf% anywhere between 18-25% is healthy.

MaltedTea

You lost me at crickets and made me rethink my profile name.

@GaryRuns seems to have covered all the bases. I'd simply clarify that you may want to consider making a training transition that includes weights once you've gotten to your desired BFP using your current methods. But, yes, the folks in the recomp threads will sort all that for you if you ask.

tpbaehr

GaryRuns wrote: »

Profile says male so 15% is fine...

Incidentally, I thought my profile was set to private. Clicking other profiles here I can’t see if they’re male or female. Is my profile not private?

jtechmart

It sounds like you're in a similar situation to me. I'm cutting first before putting on muscle, and right now I am concerned about loosing muscle if I cut too far. I've made great progress, but how far to go before bulking?

The way I'm approaching it is to cut down close to my goal, then work on increasing calories and muscle building. After some success with muscle building, do a cut for a few weeks, then bulk, etc..

I measured my bicep, chest, and thigh when I first started cutting and put this into MFP. So, I have my measurements and know when it's going down. I'll be taking measurements again and checking in case I do start to loose muscle and go into bulking sooner if need be.

I use measurements for everything, so my fat loss goal is a waist of around 34-35 inches. I'm at 37 as of today. So, over the next 4 weeks or so I'm hoping I'll hit my goal and can start building muscle.

I'm doing it this way because a slim waist is something I've wanted to achieve for a long time. Rather than trying to do both (cut/build muscle) at the same time, I'd rather put all my focus into one at a time. At least that is how I'm approaching it.

sgt1372

FWIW, you cannot gain muscle w/o gaining fat because doing so requires you to eat more. You'll always gain muscle and fat as you gain wt, assuming that you are doing the things (like lifting heavy and eating a high protein diet) to promote mudcle growth

On the other hand, you cannot lose fat w/o losing muscle because doing do requires you to eat less. You will always lose some muscle along w/the fast when you start eating at a cal deficit. The only things you can do to try to minize the muscle loss is to continue lifting heavy and esting a hi protein diet w/in your cal wt loss limits.

This is why attempting to recomp is so hard to do and why most people resort to cycles of bulking and cutting, which has worked for me when attempting recomp did not.

GaryRuns

sgt1372 wrote: »

FWIW, you cannot gain muscle w/o gaining fat because doing so requires you to eat more. You'll always gain muscle and fat as you gain wt, assuming that you are doing the things (like lifting heavy and eating a high protein diet) to promote mudcle growth

On the other hand, you cannot lose fat w/o losing muscle because doing do requires you to eat less. You will always lose some muscle along w/the fast when you start eating at a cal deficit. The only things you can do to try to minize the muscle loss is to continue lifting heavy and esting a hi protein diet w/in your cal wt loss limits.

This is why attempting to recomp is so hard to do and why most people resort to cycles of bulking and cutting, which has worked for me when attempting recomp did not.

I don't think you can state that as absolutely as you did. You can gain muscle while losing fat depending on a number of factors. Here's a chart based on the latest research, or latest as of the chart:

capgordon81

Im 5 ft 7in and have lost weight but the belly is slowly shifting when is the right time to put size with home workoutsmy gym still shut