Tell me about bike navigation with a phone?

NorthCascades

I'm sure we've got some people doing this in here.

I had a Garmin bike computer with maps for many years, it was great. Lately I've been using one of their watches and like it very much, but I'd like more in the way of navigation. I moved across town and don't know the roads as well on this side. Every wrong turn means uphill for days. A Garmin might be the best answer, but I want to look into using my phone instead, it's much cheaper. Also there's so much more detail in the maps. Hoping somebody can give me an idea what this kind of setup entails?

I've got an Android phone, and aero/wing handlebars. There's a Garmin mount that works into the face plate for my stem, I'd prefer having it mounted on the stem but the steering tube pokes up about a cm. Also, any recommended apps? I'm just looking for navigation, although displaying info from a power meter and rear view radar would be nice. Still going to use my watch to record and analyze the ride data so all I really need is guidance following a route.

I don't like to ride for more than about 4 hours at a time, so battery life won't be an issue.

Machka9

You can get a phone mount from your local bicycle shop.

And your Android Phone should have Google Maps on it. You'll be the blue dot on the map.

Strava can also be helpful.

moonangel12

Google Maps has a feature to change your mode of transit (car, bike, walking)... that plus a phone mount should be all you need! Strava would be helpful for planning routes of certain distances, not just getting you from point A to point B.

yirara

Google maps uses tons of battery power (at least on iOS). That's something to be aware of.

sijomial

One thing to consider is that Garmin's mapping and direction displays have come on a lot - perhaps much better than your old model?
My Edge 800 was pretty hard to follow muddy/fuzzy lines on a low resolution/low detail background but my current Edge 1000 is far better and wrong turns or missed turns are far less common. Very much a leap forward rather than a slight difference. Plus you get the integration with your radar system.

Wahoo have also taken a big chunk of the market and people seem very happy with them.

Some people do manage to use their phones successfully though. I chatted to a guy on an Audax event who had navigated right across Europe just using his phone. Ironically we met after I chased him down when I saw him miss a turn!

mjbnj0001

I use my phone for tracking, but not for navigation while on the bike (like the old Remington ad, "dedicated blade shaver," I'm a dedicated paper navigator, LOL). At first I used an Android, then last year I switched to iPhone XR. Actually, I use the iPhone for GPS/nav when in the car. Anyway, you've prob heard all the discussion on battery life, convenience, mounting (I actually put a handlebar extension onto my bike with intention of mounting the phone there [plus lights], but usually just toss it into my small handlebar bag because I'm not navigating with it). By the way, I don't have battery life issues on any length of ride, in a 1-day timeframe. I reset the phone for max battery life when using it as a ride tracker, plus it's new, so the battery is good; I do carry a small spare battery pack to recharge at rest stops if I need to. My Android let me have multiple batteries, so I always had backup in that regard. For tracking purposes, I use Ride With GPS.

The one really pertinent piece of info I have that might be novel to your discussion concerns cell coverage - for maps download. You're often out in the boonies in WA, I don't know what the cell coverage is in the areas you ride. Last spring, I took the bike with me on a vacation in the FL Keys, with additional intent of stopping at a few choice locales on the return trip (back to NJ) to ride. One of which was the Everglades National Park. While riding there, I went out of cell range and also off the edge of the map tile my GPS was plotting against. For a while, I had the interesting experience of riding in a "gray zone" (no map and presumably no info layers of a map to reference), while the GPS tracker happily plotted my path. Once I was back in cell range, the map tile downloaded and all was good. If I were navigating using the phone, I'm not sure it would have been able to guide me. Unlike my marine GPS (I'm also a sailor), I think phone GPS/nav systems download map tiles and associated info when they need them, not in advance.

Good luck in your efforts. Pic emphasizes my cockpit with the small handlebar extension.

swirlybee

I use a quadlock case+mount on my aerobar. It's on there tight and secure but I think they only have cases for iphones.

As for apps, I use wahoo but I don't think they have turn by turn navigation, just tracking. As others have said, your native nav app should be good for cycling, especially if you're navigating by city streets. I also use Gaia GPS for mtb (and hiking) which is much better than Google Maps/iOS for bike trails and bike paths. Again, no turn by turn, but you can plot your course ahead of time and show you which way to go.

NorthCascades

Interesting about Gaia, I'm probably going to subscribe for hiking and climbing.

Can Google Maps follow a predefined route and get you back on course if you deviate from it? I was playing around with it and didn't see anything obvious. I know how to use it to get to a single destination, but not too do a loop.

I'll have to dig up a picture of the front of the bike, I'm having a hard time seeing how I'd mount a phone. Either I need a tall enough stem mount, or a way to get a phone into a Garmin mount.

NorthCascades

Here's a picture of what I'm working with. I've moved the bars down another spacer or two since shooting this. Haven't cut the steering tube. Probably won't.

It's a 90 mm stem and the phone is larger than that, but putting it at the front end may work?

You can see there's nowhere to attach anything to the bars themselves.



This is available for my system. It fits a Garmin 1000 or 1030. Not sure about my phone, or if you can get a phone into a quarter turn mount?

MikePfirrman

I bought something like this for Strava for my bike (I'm not a serious biker though) and it works great.

https://www.amazon.com/Bovon-Universal-Adjustable-Silicone-Bicycle/dp/B07NV55BZT/ref=asc_df_B07NV55BZT/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312136489620&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6791576063262097825&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030253&hvtargid=pla-668724333113&psc=1

mjbnj0001

swirlybee wrote: »

I use a quadlock case+mount on my aerobar. It's on there tight and secure but I think they only have cases for iphones.

As for apps, I use wahoo but I don't think they have turn by turn navigation, just tracking. As others have said, your native nav app should be good for cycling, especially if you're navigating by city streets. I also use Gaia GPS for mtb (and hiking) which is much better than Google Maps/iOS for bike trails and bike paths. Again, no turn by turn, but you can plot your course ahead of time and show you which way to go.

Another vote for Gaia. I'm not a big hiker, but I do use Gaia for the walks I do. When I first started, I tried a freebie GPS, "HandyGPS" but it is very basic. Gaia is better.

sijomial

Could you fit a RAM mount to your stem that you could then mount a phone holder?
(Not an uncommon solution for fitting SatNavs to motorbikes.)

I assume the stem already has a thread which hopefully you could find a RAM mount using same diameter and thread pitch.

ritzvin

I know I've seen cases &/or adhesive adapters for existing cases on Amazon to connect a phone to a Garmin mount (if you'll be wearing the watch on your wrist thus freeing up the mount for another device).

ritzvin

(Depending on your watch and adapting device, swapping back and forth could potentially be a nuisance.... at least some of their watches are 90deg rotated versus the edge units)

NorthCascades

sijomial wrote: »

One thing to consider is that Garmin's mapping and direction displays have come on a lot - perhaps much better than your old model?
My Edge 800 was pretty hard to follow muddy/fuzzy lines on a low resolution/low detail background but my current Edge 1000 is far better and wrong turns or missed turns are far less common. Very much a leap forward rather than a slight difference. Plus you get the integration with your radar system.

Wahoo have also taken a big chunk of the market and people seem very happy with them.

Some people do manage to use their phones successfully though. I chatted to a guy on an Audax event who had navigated right across Europe just using his phone. Ironically we met after I chased him down when I saw him miss a turn!

I had an 800 and used it for many years. It was good enough for me, I've looked at some screenshots from the newer ones and they look like a big improvement. And you're right, this is the best option for using radar too. I won't be surprised if this is what I wind up going with.

sijomial wrote: »

Could you fit a RAM mount to your stem that you could then mount a phone holder?
(Not an uncommon solution for fitting SatNavs to motorbikes.)

I assume the stem already has a thread which hopefully you could find a RAM mount using same diameter and thread pitch.

I'm about to look up RAM mounts. Something I looked at looked like a good choice, but says it won't adhere to phones with glass backs. Mine has shattered glass.

NorthCascades

mjbnj0001 wrote: »

I use my phone for tracking, but not for navigation while on the bike (like the old Remington ad, "dedicated blade shaver," I'm a dedicated paper navigator, LOL). At first I used an Android, then last year I switched to iPhone XR. Actually, I use the iPhone for GPS/nav when in the car. Anyway, you've prob heard all the discussion on battery life, convenience, mounting (I actually put a handlebar extension onto my bike with intention of mounting the phone there [plus lights], but usually just toss it into my small handlebar bag because I'm not navigating with it). By the way, I don't have battery life issues on any length of ride, in a 1-day timeframe. I reset the phone for max battery life when using it as a ride tracker, plus it's new, so the battery is good; I do carry a small spare battery pack to recharge at rest stops if I need to. My Android let me have multiple batteries, so I always had backup in that regard. For tracking purposes, I use Ride With GPS.

The one really pertinent piece of info I have that might be novel to your discussion concerns cell coverage - for maps download. You're often out in the boonies in WA, I don't know what the cell coverage is in the areas you ride. Last spring, I took the bike with me on a vacation in the FL Keys, with additional intent of stopping at a few choice locales on the return trip (back to NJ) to ride. One of which was the Everglades National Park. While riding there, I went out of cell range and also off the edge of the map tile my GPS was plotting against. For a while, I had the interesting experience of riding in a "gray zone" (no map and presumably no info layers of a map to reference), while the GPS tracker happily plotted my path. Once I was back in cell range, the map tile downloaded and all was good. If I were navigating using the phone, I'm not sure it would have been able to guide me. Unlike my marine GPS (I'm also a sailor), I think phone GPS/nav systems download map tiles and associated info when they need them, not in advance.

Good luck in your efforts. Pic emphasizes my cockpit with the small handlebar extension.

I know some apps allow you to download offline maps. Looks like that's the main thing you get with a subscription to Gaia. I know it can be done with Google Maps too, it seemed clunky when I tried it, and I didn't get the satellite images I hoped for.

Of course, all of this only works if you've already downloaded the maps before you need them. And it turns out that human memory doesn't improve with age. (I drove 200+ miles for a weekend getaway for a bike ride once, I got to where I was going to start the ride, and realized I forgot to pack socks. Nowhere to buy them. I had napkins though...)

I mostly need help around home though. I've done all the nearby roads, but bigger loops are a question mark.

mjbnj0001

NorthCascades wrote: »

I know some apps allow you to download offline maps. Looks like that's the main thing you get with a subscription to Gaia. I know it can be done with Google Maps too, it seemed clunky when I tried it, and I didn't get the satellite images I hoped for.

Of course, all of this only works if you've already downloaded the maps before you need them. And it turns out that human memory doesn't improve with age. (I drove 200+ miles for a weekend getaway for a bike ride once, I got to where I was going to start the ride, and realized I forgot to pack socks. Nowhere to buy them. I had napkins though...)

I mostly need help around home though. I've done all the nearby roads, but bigger loops are a question mark.

Yeah, Gaia does that (pre download maps - at least in the paid version). Ride With GPS doesn't - also in the free version. I got mentally trapped by thinking of my marine GPS units as I was writing, LOL. I have downloaded most of the US East Coast into my marine GPS, being ambitious and all that, LOL.

Good trick with the sock napkins, I'll have to remember that, LOL.

kcjchang

I used ipbike with Sony Xperia Active for ~3 years before switching to Garmin due to battery life (only ~3.5 hours). I epoxy a SRAM Garmin adapter (after modifications) to the back of the phone. There's self adhesive mount available (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076P316M8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_h-T6EbPF377FV). The app allows for OpenStreetMap so I didn't need to activated the phone. The apps does everything that Garmin Edge can do and more, with customization. http://www.iforpowell.com/cms/index.php?page=ipbike. Android only. Not sure about the radar.

Machka9

NorthCascades wrote: »

Interesting about Gaia, I'm probably going to subscribe for hiking and climbing.

Can Google Maps follow a predefined route and get you back on course if you deviate from it? I was playing around with it and didn't see anything obvious. I know how to use it to get to a single destination, but not too do a loop.

I'll have to dig up a picture of the front of the bike, I'm having a hard time seeing how I'd mount a phone. Either I need a tall enough stem mount, or a way to get a phone into a Garmin mount.

I follow Google Maps like I do a paper map. Have a look at the route at home on my laptop on Google Maps. Sort of memorise it or get an idea of what's involved. Start riding the route and when I forget what's next or think that something doesn't seem right, I pull out my phone, find my blue dot and see where I am ... and see where I need to be. Then I put it away and keep moving until the next time I need to figure out where I am.

ritzvin

I usually pre-map out my routes on RWGPS and download to the Garmin. I do wish it had a basemap (920XT Tri watch) for when I do want to adjust the route on the fly without pulling out the phone.

ritzvin

I've seen bar extenders that can attach to the stem instead of the handlebars - I think Topeak makes one.

ritzvin

Not a turn-by-turn navigation app, but I've used BackCountry Navigator for years for hiking. A fairly large selection of available map types, and you can manually select with multiple rectangles which areas of which map layers you want to pre-download for offline and to what zoom level (full control over expended storage memory).

Hagensieker

Just my 2 cents. I started riding again recently after years away from it and dug my old Garmin Edge 705 out of the closet and while it may be old the GPS satellites haven't changed nor has my heart. Same old heart. It does a great job of mapping as well and you can use Open maps with it. Pick up an older Garmin. If you crash and burn on the bike kiss your phone goodbye.