How do you get around the muscle-burning nature of jogging?

Spiegelchan

Do you enjoy jogging? I enjoy jogging. Even when I’m feeling tired and lazy and don’t want to do anything useful, my body pokes me like ‘ok, get up, let’s go.’ Over the last couple months, I increased my weekly mileage enough to maybe even consider myself an actual baby jogger, rather than just someone who occasionally jogs.

In celebration, I was reading through some articles about it and discovered what everyone else already knew; that if you’re not careful, jogging will burn muscle. In order to avoid this you must be responsible and do strength training outside of your runs and eat lots of protein.

I’m guessing those of you who consider yourself joggers (or runners!) for real, are already doing your best to follow these guidelines. But I’m also guessing not everyone does it by the book, with lunges and squats and push-ups (right?) Surely some of you have gotten creative, and it’s your expertise I’d like to hear about.

Because while I’m doing my best with the protein, words cannot describe how much I loathe strength training. Before the shutdown, I used to take weekly parkour classes, to build muscle in a useful way rather than mind-numbingly repeating excruciating reps. Unfortunately, parkour is closed and I definitely don’t have the risk appetite to practice on my own, with no instructor to reward me with attention and no padded equipment to mitigate my mistakes. Also, despite my fairly consistent jogging habit, I have exactly zero (0) self-discipline and am incapable of forcing myself to do things I know are good for me but don’t want to do.

Which puts me in a corner, because I definitely don’t have enough muscle that I can afford to burn any! So I come to you, experienced exercise friends, with two questions.

First, how would you avoid losing muscle to catabolic exercise, if you couldn’t (wouldn’t) do traditional strength training? My first thought was to chop some wood, but I have neither an axe, nor wood, nor anything I could do with said wood once chopped. None of my housework requires particular strength. My job definitely doesn’t. And, obviously, I have nowhere to go.

Second, does catabolic exercise such as jogging burn muscle all over, or only the muscle one is using? (Or not using?) So, will jogging burn all my muscle equally? Will it burn more in my arms, because I’m not using them? Will it burn more in my legs, because I am using them? In other words, do I have to seek out non-strength training solutions for all my muscle groups, or just certain ones?

Thanks for your thoughts, wise friends!

quiksylver296

I thought newer studies were saying cardio doesn't burn as much muscle as they used to think. I don't have any studies to quote though. I'm sure someone more learned than I can speak to that.

BrianSharpe

I'd love to see some links to these "articles", sounds like broscience to me.

Manga23

https://mennohenselmans.com/the-cardio-comedown/

Read this.......his studies are evidence based.
You can't be a runner and be a bodybuilder at the same time. You don't lose all muscles bij running but if you want to build it's not smart to do that much cardio.
So decide what body composition you prefer the most.
I don't think you've a problem if you aren't aiming to be a bodybuilder

sijomial

Exercise doesn't burn muscle for fuel unless you have a spectacularly deficient diet and then the problem is the diet and not the exercise. What causes muscle atrophy is NOT using your muscles.

You are in fact using a mixture of carbs and fat for fuel during exercise in different ratios, primarily dependant on the intensity. Low intensity jogging would be primarily fat for fuel (not that is matters for weight loss / fat loss - that's down to your entire day not just the time spent exercising).

Following the exercise burns muscle for fuel "logic" would mean the fittest people would have the least muscle.

If you don't enjoy traditional strength training then maybe pick an exercise that has at least a resistance element: swimming, rowing, cycling.....

littlegreenparrot1

Full disclosure: I haven't read the articles and don't know the science. I can talk about my personal experience.

I am quite a plump runner, no ambitions to be a bodybuilder and develop that physique.
I don't really like strength training in the gym, find it boring and similar to you won't bother.
I also don't make any particular effort with protein, just the old generally balanced diet.

I do like yoga and swimming, so do those regularly. They are quite good cross training for running, so help prevent injury.
Also quite like the HIIT / functional fitness type classes. They involve some weights, but are usually short. So by the time I hate everything it's nearly finished.

How seriously you take this stuff depends on your goals really.

RunnerGirl238

I am “a runner” who also lifts. However I do enjoy functional style lifting g over standard reps and sets.

Given this, and I am only a case study of 1, I can run and not burn muscle. In fact, I’m so quad dominant that I have to really focus on hamstring and glute building in order to avoid injury.

In addition, I lift to avoid injury, improve small muscle group stamina, and keep a strong core...which improves my running.

AnnPT77

If you're aiming for elite status in muscle mass or running, then maybe worry about it. If you're not, don't.

It's generally not good to train so much or so often (with respect to your current fitness level) that you're persistently fatigued, or that you don't get enough recovery so performance fails to progress (or even declines). But - again, if not aiming for elite status - paying attention and using common sense can be your guide. (If aiming for elite status, get a good coach, and do as they tell you. ).

Obviously (I hope), you need to fuel adequately - calories and overall nutrition - for your activity level and goals. Losing weight too fast risks unnecessary muscle loss. Underconsuming protein risks unnecessary muscle loss.

I can't speak so much to running/jogging per se, but I have some experience (personally and from observing friends, including some elites) with another form of cardio, rowing (on water & machine). Rowers - even enthusiastic recreational ones like me - often do hours of cardio a week. Elites do many, many hours of cardio weekly, for years and years. If cardio were doom for muscularity, someone like Meghan Musnicki wouldn't look like this:



But she does, or did. (I'm sure she lifts, too.) I know and have rowed with other current/former national team (i.e., Olympic) rowers. They row hours and hours a week, they lift, they have muscles. Heck, I hardly ever lift, and even as a li'l ol' lady, I'm not completely devoid of muscle.

I don't think you have to worry. Don't lose weight too fast, do whatever cardio you can enjoy, fit in some strength training (bodyweight or weights) because it's good for you (especially because jogging isn't doing anything for upper body strength), get good overall well-rounded nutrition. You'll make progress, you'll be fine.

Best wishes!

Chieflrg

Manga23 wrote: »

https://mennohenselmans.com/the-cardio-comedown/

Read this.......his studies are evidence based.
You can't be a runner and be a bodybuilder at the same time. You don't lose all muscles bij running but if you want to build it's not smart to do that much cardio.
So decide what body composition you prefer the most.
I don't think you've a problem if you aren't aiming to be a bodybuilder

If we are talking competing bodybuilder, yes I might agree that running wouldn't be my first choice of cardio. How much cardio isn't the problem, but usually intensity and what are body is adapted to. I would suggest LISS cardio for a powerlifter and HITT for a pro body builder to get the recommended dosage of cardio suggested.

I assure you that is possible to experience plenty of hypertrophy in relation to the individual and their response to training.

To achieve hypertrophy we need training with adequate stimulus, appropriate volume at the correct range of intensity(which varies depending on rep schemes). We also need calories. Protein usually is a no brainer and easy to hit the optimal level with resistance training, running, and being carnivorous.

I ran no less than 6 miles per day and up to 19 miles usually averaging in the middle for well over a year and built significant muscle in my 40s.


The problem is load management and enough calories. I hazard I consumed 7-10k in calories daily because of being very active with biking and playing baseball as well. I had to eat to keep up with my life style which was on the extreme side at the time.

ritzvin

Don't worry about it. Cardio resulting in muscle loss would only be an issue if underfueling your runs (same as if you didn't do the cardio and were stupidly starving yourself). If anything, for someone that doesn't weight train, you'll at least be working those muscles somewhat, which is much, much better than doing nothing.

What can be a problem is tetris-ing both competitive cardio and weight training into one's schedule such that you won't be fatigued when performance matters.

diliveslife

I am just speaking from my own experience. I used to be an avid runner. I have completed a LOT of half marathons and races over the years. At the peak of my running about 10 years ago, I ran a half marathon 4 times a year with running anywhere from 60-100 miles per week. I weighed FAR less than I do now, and my body type was … well "skinny". I had some tone areas that my body naturally would build muscle in- specifically my legs, but my body was just thin. My arms had ZERO muscle. As I got older my hips and ankles started taking a beating, so I mixed in spin. Which I still love.

Then I started doing weight training as my main go to and my body transformed and I loved it. Not just the way my body shaped- but the actual weight training was "fun" to me.

That said I do a lot of cardio in the form of spin and I still jog- just about 10-15 miles a week max jogging, and about 7-12 hours of intense spinning in the form of classes I either teach or attend. I think you can look at athletes to get an idea. People who spend a LOT of time doing LOTS of cardio and not much else say cyclists, runners than avid CrossFit athletes who can look super muscular. I think somewhere in between is pretty great depending on your body type and what you like to do. Although I weigh more now, I love the way my body looks so much more. But there was nothing wrong with how it looked years ago. I just didn't realize it could look so much different and at the time had no desire for it to. If you hate lifting weights, then skip it. I keep a good amount of muscle on while doing a lot of cardio, but I eat a lot of protein and lift weights regularly as well.

KimiAR

The science on this doesn’t add up. You don’t “burn” muscle. You use a different type of muscle cell. One is better for long repeated endurance activities (running). The other type is for short repeated hard as you can be activity (hiit if done properly and lifting). You don’t really lose muscle cells, you just Use one over the other and when those different cells are used regularly they build differently and so give you a different physical look. If you want muscles (in the sense of being able to see definition and look toned or muscular) you need to lift. Even body weight exercises would help with that. But those exercises will actually also help your running-you’ll be faster, better posture, less injury.
Nerdfitness has some good body weight stuff. I try to do 25 abs, 25 push ups, 25 squats during the week (it’s more “strength” training than I would get otherwise).

*to all the science nerds out there, please don’t bash the attempt at high level here...

ritzvin

KimiAR wrote: »

If you want muscles (in the sense of being able to see definition and look toned or muscular) you need to lift. Even body weight exercises would help with that. But those exercises will actually also help your running-you’ll be faster, better posture, less injury.

Yes! to both of these. Weight training made a huge improvement to my running (as long I wasn't fatigued due to poor timing of doing both). stronger quads = faster and less fatigue all around. stronger hamstrings = much faster uphills in particular (nothing like an uphill portion of a race to tell you pretty darn quick who's been neglecting their deadlifts), and more arm strength also equals more speed (faster cadence).