cyclists - training for events

jjpptt2

I'm kicking around the idea of riding Mt Lemmon in AZ, possibly this coming spring.



Since I can't easily replicate this type of ride where I live (we simply don't have climbs like that here), I'm likely going to train based on miles (volume) and frequency. I don't know if this coming spring is reasonable for this ride, but I haven't been goal-motivated in a long time, so I'm not real sure what I'm capable of these days.

But it got me thinking...
If you are planning an "event" type of ride... something you can't easily replicate in your typical riding... how do you prepare?

jjpptt2

And yes... some reasoning for this post is simply that I'm bored at work and want to talk cycling.

ritzvin

Good question. Looks like a consistent ~5% grade for 20 miles for the main bit. Maybe hill repeats, if you have anything close? What do you have available? 250'/mi is definitely a taxing ride (pretty rare for us to have a route much >100'/mi where I am - and that's when you are trying to somewhat maximize the climbing).

I've been eyeing this one for the Fall: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31759936

(99 mi, 9400', separate hills as opposed to a constant climb).

jjpptt2

This is what hill repeats looks like in my neighborhood. Haven't done this in a few years, and probably can't do it right now... but finding hills to climb isn't a problem. It's finding long, moderate hills to climb that I can't really do where I live.

jjpptt2

The other thing I'm unsure of is the altitude. The Mt. Lemmon ride starts at a higher elevation than I typically see.

mjbnj0001

as @ritzvin suggested, perhaps a high frequency, high-reps program on the hills you've got. I might also suggest, if you've got something akin to a track, going long-and-hard for a while (uninterrupted miles) for cardio and legs development. You've got six months to train. But I think besides regular conditioning, you might need to do some sort of acclimatization to the altitude. I expected, for instance, that a trip I took to Mt. Haleakala (HI), at 10,000 feet, would cause some issues - and taking a jog up there proved it (walking itself wasn't so bad). What I wasn't so sure about beforehand were the effects I felt in Colorado Springs during a project I worked (about 6000 feet). We're all different in our altitude susceptibility. I'd suggest traveling to do some mountain riding in the next year just to evaluate yourself. I'm not certain, but I have the impression that altitude training can take weeks at elevation to adjust. I live at absolute sea level, by the way, 3.5miles from the New Jersey Atlantic Ocean beach. A couple miles away is the "highest elevation on the Eastern Seaboard south of Maine," at about 240 feet. Good luck!

Jthanmyfitnesspal

Thanks for a great thread!

I think resistance training would be helpful. I know it sucks, in a way, because it gets your legs sore and you have to do light riding for a day or two after, but I have really added strength doing it. (Sadly, it was way back in my 20s. I'm ready for another round!) It would be hard (but not impossible) to do it without access to a gym. I found the standard set of leg machines to work really well for this (leg press, leg extension, leg curl). A free-weight approach would mostly involve heavy squats.

I go to a short but steep hill nearby and ride it pretty frequently. Looks just like what you posted, except no where near the vertical! It still kicks my *kitten*! I think you're in good shape there and just adding the miles to get your endurance up!

It sounds like a blast!

Djproulx

I've been curious about this one for awhile. That's a great goal ride. Hope you give it a go!

I've enjoyed watching Lionel Sanders suffering while climbing it, but never enough to make me get serious about doing it, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySpKIq2J5IQ

ritzvin

FYI (for the curious)...here's the climb portion of the OP...
https://www.strava.com/segments/9782434
https://www.strava.com/segments/5275818 (most of the above, more entries-difft start)
https://www.strava.com/segments/14959515 (the main 20 miles)
https://www.strava.com/segments/search?utf8=✓&keywords=lemmon&filter_type=cycling&min-cat=5&max-cat=5&terrain=all

ritzvin

..and apparently one of the guys I sometimes ride with did this in January of this year.

NorthCascades

Climbing is watts:kilograms so you can train for this on flat ground. More miles like you said, hopefully getting you more watts. Obviously weight is a consideration too. 🙂

For me, riding uphill keeps me honest. On flat ground I just naturally slack off here and there. I don't think you'll have much chance to stop for a breather once you get started. So I'm going to second the recommendation for hill repeats. Not short anaerobic ones, I mean laps up and down a mile or longer hill. Might have to drive for that? I'd do enough that it gets uncomfortable at the end but not painful, see how much cumulative elevation gain it came to, and push that over time.

I wouldn't try to do the full 8,300 in a day in training, but I'd want to have done 5 to 6 k in a single ride. You probably don't have to, to be ready for the event, but it'd sure make me less doubtful about making it to the top.

If possible on the flat do longer intervals at threshold. 2x20 minutes, or just one long interval until you're too exhausted to continue.

And balance all of that with recovery. Walking and short, easy rides help your legs recover.

jjpptt2

After doing a bit more reading and a bit more thinking, my plan is to spend most the summer simply riding more. My base is pretty bad right now, and I figure more riding can only help that. So to start out, I'm going to keep it simple and just ride because I enjoy riding.

I do plan on spending some time on the trainer, and I'll focus that time on long, grinding, big ring work. That should help boost my climbing legs.

Looking a bit further down the road, I'll probably try and take a trip out to Arizona early this winter. That'll give me a chance to do some preliminary riding on the lower parts of the mountain, and see where I'm at and how things feel. If nothing else, it'll be a nice change of scenery and whether that time of year.

jjpptt2

NorthCascades wrote: »

Obviously weight is a consideration too. 🙂

Yea, that's kind of a given. I can't go into this ride at my current 5' 8", 185lbs. Since i'm not likely to grow 6" in the next 6 months (or ever), I have to get back down to my preferred low 160s. Doable, I just haven't cared enough about my weight in a few years for it to matter to me.

ritzvin

Yes. That! In case you haven't noticed, weight is a majorly ginormous factor in climbing. (As a very petite female, I love this freakin' sport). If you are currently above ideal weight, than losing some of it will help immensely.

Jthanmyfitnesspal

jjpptt2 wrote: »

NorthCascades wrote: »

Obviously weight is a consideration too. 🙂

Yea, that's kind of a given. I can't go into this ride at my current 5' 8", 185lbs. Since i'm not likely to grow 6" in the next 6 months (or ever), I have to get back down to my preferred low 160s. Doable, I just haven't cared enough about my weight in a few years for it to matter to me.

This is a really fun discussion!

Certainly, if you ramp up the miles you will likely lose weight so long as you are also careful about what you eat. Losing 10% of your body weight is a big cut, however; I've found it hard to do that while doing significant endurance training (e.g., multi-hour weekly rides). Another way of saying it is that under-eating while riding high miles is really hard!

The alternative (which has been discussed in articles about pro cyclists and other athletes) is to cut in the off-season when you are also presumably doing shorter workouts (e.g., an hour or less on the trainer plus resistance training). Hey, I tried to do that this year, but then the quarantine hit, and I gained it all back! #FUCKCOVID19!

Anyway, I'm interested in seeing how you do, so keep us posted!

jjpptt2

Couple of good rides the last half of the week... nice to have a bit of focus again.

Commute to/from work...


Saturday morning ride

sijomial

Half the distance and elevation but looks like similar gradients my longest climb was 4,300' in 35 miles on the cycling paradise of Tenerife.

Cons:
February which is my off season when I can't do long rides, nearly all my December and January riding was short duration indoor training. Simply worked on increasing my FTP and losing a few pounds of Christmas Pudding to improve my power to weight ratio.
Hired bike.

Pros:
I was coming off a high volume year (5,500miles) and had a good endurance base.
The roads and views were inspiring, enjoying the ride makes such a difference.

Got some great advice from a very good climber "you can attack hills but you can't attack a mountain". In a nutshell I had to find a pace on mostly 5 to 8% grades that was comfortable and sustainable and just stay in that zone and let the miles (and feet) click by - as it was a hired bike I simply did it by heartrate.
There were some steeper segments (18%) which I just tried to plod up without going into the red as there weren't any following flat sections to recover.

That's very different to my local hills which are often about a mile long going from 7 - 20% where you can muscle up the big gradients and then recover on the way down.

Overall it was hugely enjoyable, satisfying and memorable.

heybales

"uphill is just slanted level" - way back I don't recall from who.

The current hill training will help you see how to maintain an equal level hard ride, but on the hill.
Altitude just an extra curve ball.
Learning there is not as easy a recovery if you push too hard and you got no gearing left.

For instance, can you find a really windy day and head straight out into it, and figure out and keep the level of effort to sustain it for a long ride?
If it keeps challenging you to push harder than you should - then gotta learn to hold back.

Might be able to confirm what your form turns in to when you start getting tired.
Does your cadence drop almost automatically - that could be a huge mistake to turn into grinder half-way up.
Do you start emphasizing just the push part of the pedal stroke - that could be bad if you normally have good circles.

I know I'm terrible at reading the body especially when tired unless it's way obvious - which means it's gotten way off desired already and may be too late. So I gotta have my numbers - cadence and HR. The power usually allows me to confirm I'm holding back to correct level at the beginning, but once an effort is too long then HR matters more to me, especially if altitude was as big as you show.

Really liked the other pieces of advice.