An Apple watch / Fitbit query

bobbyjg69

I have a Fitbit Ionic and been using this with MFP for a few months now quite successfully. In MFP Exercise, it gives me a calorie adjustment for my Fitbit steps as well as giving me calorie adjustment for an activity other than just normal steps eg running / cycling or walking where I have used the exercise tracker on the Ionic.
My wife (who is heavier than me) has an Apple Watch and I have set her up with MFP last week. In her exercise diary it seems to do similar ie giving entries for exercise and steps but the values are hugely different to my fitbit.
Now I know no two people are the same and different factors come into the calorie burn but today we have spent all day with each other purely to try and get to the bottom of this.
We walked together for 60 mins with the dog - her MFP is giving her 321 calories burned for this but I have got 583.
In total I have walked 15000 steps and I have a further adjustment of 530 calories - she has done 15581 steps and has an adjustment showing of 56 calories.
So in total, I have 1021 calories Exercise on MFP app, and she has 377.

How can that be and which is the accurate figure?

janejellyroll

Apple Watch is notorious for not working well with MFP, so I would warn her to be cautious about accepting the adjustments it is making as accurate.

I'm guessing that your weight is different - that means you're always going to be burning a different number of calories for the same activity. You also don't mention what your base activity level on MFP is - that is also going to influence the size of your adjustments. Nobody can tell you if your number is accurate or not - some people find the Fitbit to be very accurate, while others find it isn't accurate. The best way to determine if your Fitbit is accurate is to track your real life results.

nanastaci2020

I do not know anything about Apple watch, how it calculates, etc.

BUT some things about calorie adjustments & MFP...

MFP predicts what calories you burn daily based on stats (height, weight, gender, age) and stated activity level.
Fitbit estimates what calories you burn daily based on the same stats and your actual movement.

The difference is the Fitbit adjustment.

So the starting point in your query: does your wife & yourself each have the same activity level selected in MFP? If not, even if you did the same activities all day long then your adjustments would be different.

And your stats are also different. Forgive me for making assumptions, but I am assuming that your wife is female and you are male. And I'm assuming you are each of different heights and weights. These details will also impact your calories burned all day.

PAV8888

Please have a look through https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10788817/pacer-calories-wrong#latest

Look at @Talan79 's post of her Apple watch results and of her MFP adjustments and my interpretation/discussion of what is on her screens. Note that her Apple watch connects to PACER app, which then connects to MFP in order to transmit the information that MFP needs. If Pacer also sends a second exercise figure to MFP she then deletes it. This is a workaround. MFP needs to receive the Total Calories figure.

breefoshee

There was a big difference when I switched over to Apple too. At first, I didn't care for Apple because I was always such a Fitbit fan. In the end, I thought Apple was a little more realistic for me-- but I removed it from syncing with Myfitnesspal. I just wanted to eat at a certain amount and not have it fluctuate based on how much I exercised.

Make sure she has the function that counts heart rate on during exercises. I turned this off by accident and my numbers were really low.

For me, Apple is super fun because it encourages me to close all my rings-- which I find more satisfying than hitting step goals.

bobbyjg69

Hi thanks for the reply. Yes my wife is female and I am male, she is heavier than me but shorter. I understand that our calorie rate will be different (though I have just changed my activity level up to Lightly Active from "Not Very Active".
I have tried putting my walks into some online calorie calculators and I know they cannot be scientifically correct but they all seem to estimate much lower than what Fitbit gives me for the same distance / time etc.
Also with AW, when my wife does an exercise it then seems to actually reduce the exercise calories on the MFP - I need to check this exactly but seems to reduce the step adjustment figure if she subsequently adds in an exercise?

heybales

bobbyjg69 wrote: »

I have a Fitbit Ionic and been using this with MFP for a few months now quite successfully. In MFP Exercise, it gives me a calorie adjustment for my Fitbit steps as well as giving me calorie adjustment for an activity other than just normal steps eg running / cycling or walking where I have used the exercise tracker on the Ionic.
My wife (who is heavier than me) has an Apple Watch and I have set her up with MFP last week. In her exercise diary it seems to do similar ie giving entries for exercise and steps but the values are hugely different to my fitbit.
Now I know no two people are the same and different factors come into the calorie burn but today we have spent all day with each other purely to try and get to the bottom of this.
We walked together for 60 mins with the dog - her MFP is giving her 321 calories burned for this but I have got 583.
In total I have walked 15000 steps and I have a further adjustment of 530 calories - she has done 15581 steps and has an adjustment showing of 56 calories.
So in total, I have 1021 calories Exercise on MFP app, and she has 377.

How can that be and which is the accurate figure?

That adjustment is not only exercise, or may not be any. Merely a difference as others pointed out.

So you are comparing adjustment for the whole day, not just the walk.

Fitbit doesn't send workouts over - it's in the total calorie figure it does send.

Apple does send workouts over - and the math between those is different.

Does she have the Apple Watch MFP app installed - or merely telling your phone MFP app to use as step source as Apple watch?
Your synced Fitbit account method is very different from either of those options anyway.

If only looking at MFP figures, the Fitbit connection has better figures.
As far as what did the tracker say the walk burned - many say they think the Apple is better.
But you get that Fitbit tweaked for your stride length so distance is correct, and don't get HR up so much it uses HR-based calorie burn but sticks with distance-based - your Fitbit will be just as accurate for the walk.

Talan79

She will need to use Pacer. MFP and Apple Watch don’t integrate. The total move calories will be the adjustment in MFP.

breefoshee

Oh I did have another thing to add: Make sure she has her watch on properly. I like mine loose during the day, but I have to tighten it up for my workouts so that it counts my heart rate.

heybales

bobbyjg69 wrote: »

Hi thanks for the reply. Yes my wife is female and I am male, she is heavier than me but shorter. I understand that our calorie rate will be different (though I have just changed my activity level up to Lightly Active from "Not Very Active".
I have tried putting my walks into some online calorie calculators and I know they cannot be scientifically correct but they all seem to estimate much lower than what Fitbit gives me for the same distance / time etc.
Also with AW, when my wife does an exercise it then seems to actually reduce the exercise calories on the MFP - I need to check this exactly but seems to reduce the step adjustment figure if she subsequently adds in an exercise?

Ok, she's got the MFP app setting for Step Source to say Apple Watch.

Unlike your Fitbit that sends over an actual calorie burn figure for the day, the MFP app is only getting step count in her case.

Very rough estimate.
Plus the app doesn't know if when a workout is logged - how many of the steps were actually part of that.
So to be safe it subtracts the calories for the steps it figures could already be included in the calories for the workout.
Not double-counting.

Her base eating goal + adjustment calories + workout calories = new eating goal.

As mentioned - if she wants to do it much better, don't just tell the app to use steps from the watch.
Install on phone and sync to the Pacer app (from MFP app page) from MFP.
The Apple Health to the Pacer app.

Now a correct daily burn will be sent to MFP from Pacer just like your Fitbit does.

Clive_1963

I am very skeptical of my fitbit, it says my daily calorie intake should be 1800 and after I did a 9km walk it said 3840 ;-) If i am to trust it i can have a pig out according to the calorie allowance.

heybales

Clive_1963 wrote: »

I am very skeptical of my fitbit, it says my daily calorie intake should be 1800 and after I did a 9km walk it said 3840 ;-) If i am to trust it i can have a pig out according to the calorie allowance.

Did you walk a known 9k, or that's what the Fitbit said?
If known 9k, what did the Fitbit say the distance was?

How long a time? - if over an hour, than another around 100 would have been added on since you burn calories every sec while alive.

And it probably used HR-based calorie burn if HR went high enough - and that formula at bottom of aerobic range is inflated burn, especially if HR was higher than normal for heat or other stress.
Distance-based formula for calorie burn would have been better.

bobbyjg69

Cheers for replies. As mentioned, wife has Apple watch and I have Fitbit. Is there any way that you can get Apple Health to basically tell you in one place what the Fitbit app does on its dashboard? Wife wants to buy me an Apple Watch but basically I cannot see how it is any better than Fitbit and I certainly like the Fitbit dashboard that shows all the stats and information needed in one screen?

nanastaci2020

bobbyjg69 wrote: »

Cheers for replies. As mentioned, wife has Apple watch and I have Fitbit. Is there any way that you can get Apple Health to basically tell you in one place what the Fitbit app does on its dashboard? Wife wants to buy me an Apple Watch but basically I cannot see how it is any better than Fitbit and I certainly like the Fitbit dashboard that shows all the stats and information needed in one screen?

I know nothing about the Apple Watch. So this may not be possible... Can you reassign her Apple Watch to your stats/create your own profile and try it out for a few days? Figure out what the Apple app gives in terms of stats/data and how you like it? That way if you decide you don't prefer it, you can stick with your Fitbit and save the $.

mazdauk

I have a Garmin watch which I deliberately don't sync with MFP. Insteda, when I go for a walk I start the watch and then when I get home use the time and distance to work out what speed I have walked - it can vary from 3.5mph to as low as 2mph, depending how much shopping I am carrying, whether I'm with my (tall, young) son or (older, less fit) husband etc. I then log the time and speed on MFP (e.g. 25 mins at 3mph) to get my exercise calories. You get a lot of people saying MFP "overestimates calorie burn", but I have lot weight and maintained for over 7 years using their estimates, and used the Garmin to verify my walking speed for over 3 years now so they can't be that far off, when in contrast I have seen many Which? (UK consumer assoc) reviews saying fitbit is not accurate and can overestimate by up to 40%.

joeyzuraski

Apple Watch's workout data is hardwired. It's not adjustable there. However, you can use https://www.myfitnesspal.com/apps to record alternative data. For example, using UA's apps or Garmin's apps instead of using the Apple Watch.

I'm not into installing alternative apps, but you can try them out instead. You may also want to update your profile on the Apple Health to the correct settings like Female, Left or Right watch user, the Bio-Data including weight, BMI, Fat %, and Height.

heybales

mazdauk wrote: »

I have a Garmin watch which I deliberately don't sync with MFP. Insteda, when I go for a walk I start the watch and then when I get home use the time and distance to work out what speed I have walked - it can vary from 3.5mph to as low as 2mph, depending how much shopping I am carrying, whether I'm with my (tall, young) son or (older, less fit) husband etc. I then log the time and speed on MFP (e.g. 25 mins at 3mph) to get my exercise calories. You get a lot of people saying MFP "overestimates calorie burn", but I have lot weight and maintained for over 7 years using their estimates, and used the Garmin to verify my walking speed for over 3 years now so they can't be that far off, when in contrast I have seen many Which? (UK consumer assoc) reviews saying fitbit is not accurate and can overestimate by up to 40%.

In contrast to Fitbit (currently, maybe they are updating their firmware which would be smart), Garmin for walking or running uses both distance-based and HR-based calorie burn formula - haven't seen which is given precedence or weighted more in the formula, but from my calcs is heavily the better distance-based. (same method the database uses for chunks of pace)

That prevents the issue that any HRM-based calorie burn would have when your HR is just barely above daily activity level like exercise walking, barely into the aerobic exercise level - where inflated calorie estimate will occur.

The reason many like to sync is to get corrections to their daily activity level that can vary greatly, that way no guess from 4 rough levels, but a 1000 levels or more.
In that case while the adjustment may show up under Exercise, it's not a database exercise being added to your already accounted for day, it's more daily activity being added which is totally valid. So the claims of taking 50% off don't apply.

You have probably had success because like many, the overage of the exercise being added to the day, makes up for the daily estimate being low due to wrong activity level. Average usage can balance out like that nicely.

Ya, those Fitbit studies were for the exercise portion, and they slapped the device on someone for a workout, without it getting the 1-2 required weeks to adjust to the person first.

PAV8888

mazdauk wrote: »

so they can't be that far off, when in contrast I have seen many Which? (UK consumer assoc) reviews saying fitbit is not accurate and can overestimate by up to 40%.

They are all using the same MET values to estimate calories.

What varies is the detection algorithm. What is taken into consideration when estimating the intensity level and time of the activity.

By definition when not using sync your exercise activity includes 1x BMR calories because you're alive and almost nothing shows activity calories net of your base.

MFP includes at least 1.25x BMR for any time period (sedentary setting).

And you're validating against the results you obtain by comparing to your individualized logging and adherence to goals

As long as you're using a consistent method of estimation you can always adjust based on your results!

As to the question of apple vs Fitbit, what is it that you want out of your watch that one offers and the other doesn't?

For me the answer is that I don't need or want to duplicate functions I have on my phone that I still get to carry anyway since the watch cannot sufficiently replace it.

Thus the Charge series is as complicated and expensive as I want and need. A move to Garmin would be considered will ahead of a more generalized smart watch.