Need Advice for Muscle Gain

sijomial

brandonedwards346 wrote: »

@sijomial @jessef593

Alright so here’s my pitch and you two seem to know a lot more than me.. so i weighed 240 and dropped down to 190. I was on the keto diet. Now I’m still a little chubby ( dad bod ) but I stopped doing keto and started to try and learn how to count macros. What would you recommend for me if I say in the next 10 weeks, id like you lose 10 weeks I’d like to lose 10 more lbs while gaining more muscle mass? Or is that not a thing? I’m very new to this so any positive feedback is appreciated

@brandonedwards346

Yes it's possible for someone to gain some muscle in a sensible calorie deficit. It's clearly not optimal conditions for gaining muscle but not that unusual either.

Lots of personal factors involved though:
How good is your training.
How you respond to that training.
How old you are.
How male you are (the beard is a clue )
How under-trained you are and your training history.
How big your deficit is.
How sensitive you are to that deficit (my wife says I'm very insensitive....)

But honestly don't get too invested in if it's possible for you as your goal means if you do the right things (appropriate training/size of deficit/decent amount of protein) then your results will probably be the best they could have been.

Really there's no bad options for deficit if you extend your horizon to 20 weeks.
Cut at half a pound a week would probably impact your training and recovery less but that's 20 weeks with some impact.
Cut at a pound a week to get to goal in 10 weeks and then 10 weeks probably more effective training at maintenance calories.
Probably six of one and half a dozen of the other. I'd probably go by how your energy and hunger levels feel with a nod towards if you have been dieting non-stop to lose that 50lbs (well done!) a small deficit might be better or if you had a break at maintenance then I'd be inclined to get the job done quicker. As you get leaner those last 10lbs make a big difference visually, if that's your motivation.

brandonedwards346

Thanks for the input! I have an active job, and when I get home I run 1.5 miles, After that I hit the punching bag for 15 mins, and then I lift heavy for a little over an hour. I said 10 weeks because that’s just how long this body building plan “lasts” essentially I could continuously do it, it’s just lifting. I weigh 190 right now, but my BMI is still around low 20s. I think it’s 24 to be exact. Would you say for what I’m trying to accomplish, 1500 calories a day with a 60% protein 20%fat 20% carbs would be ideal? Or would you recommend a different macro count.

sijomial

brandonedwards346 wrote: »

Thanks for the input! I have an active job, and when I get home I run 1.5 miles, After that I hit the punching bag for 15 mins, and then I lift heavy for a little over an hour. I said 10 weeks because that’s just how long this body building plan “lasts” essentially I could continuously do it, it’s just lifting. I weigh 190 right now, but my BMI is still around low 20s. I think it’s 24 to be exact. Would you say for what I’m trying to accomplish, 1500 calories a day with a 60% protein 20%fat 20% carbs would be ideal? Or would you recommend a different macro count.

1500cals!!
That's a tiny amount.
A man with an active job, cardio and strength training but eating like a sedentary, non-exercising, little old lady isn't going to work. If you have ambitions to build muscle in a deficit eat at a sensible and not extreme deficit.

Start with getting a far more sensible calorie goal and percentages are a poor way to sort out macros, set minimums in grams for protein and fat and fill the rest with mostly carbs would be my suggestion.

brandonedwards346

Lmao I told you I don’t know *kitten* about this lol. I figure if I kept my calories lower while working out like crazy, taking my protein, it would work! Guess I was wrong, but that’s why I’m asking people who know more! I’ll post pics of what the app recommends for grams, and see if you agree or think I should tweak it in any way

jessef593

MDC2957 wrote: »

jessef593 wrote: »

But for someone looking to see changes sooner I would not recommend it. I'd personally suggest a 3-4x a week beginner weight lifting program while running a very moderate surplus of 200-250 calories a day with around 1g of protein per pound of lean mass

That's exactly what I was doing, the aworkoutroutine.com beginner program, with dumbbells, 3x per week full body, and strength doesn't increase beyond a certain point.

As said half a dozen times. Full body is sub optimal for building muscle beyond beginner. Go back and read what you've been told. I suggested an upper lower split or a push pull legs. I cant repeat myself anymore.

For the people that continue to disagree with fact and experience. State your reasoning and facts. Or just keep being our keyboard warriors and saviors.

jessef593

brandonedwards346 wrote: »

Thanks for the input! I have an active job, and when I get home I run 1.5 miles, After that I hit the punching bag for 15 mins, and then I lift heavy for a little over an hour. I said 10 weeks because that’s just how long this body building plan “lasts” essentially I could continuously do it, it’s just lifting. I weigh 190 right now, but my BMI is still around low 20s. I think it’s 24 to be exact. Would you say for what I’m trying to accomplish, 1500 calories a day with a 60% protein 20%fat 20% carbs would be ideal? Or would you recommend a different macro count.

Your calories are far too low my friend.

At that low for an adult Male at 190lbs. I would be beyond amazed if you gained any muscle. I'd honestly expect you to lose some.

In a mild deficit with appropriate diet, training, rest, and genetics. You can gain muscle. Though as @sijomial said it will be nothing to write home about. Even using AAS your gains would be less than exciting.

Personally.

Focus of losing for now, get to a comfortable weight. But first increase those damn calories. You're hindering your progress severely. Aim for 250-500 cal a week deficit. Thatd likely be around 2000 for you.

Keep training. Getting solid protein. 1g per lb of bodyweight works best for me. Everyone will vary slightly.

Ensure proper rest and hydration.


If you cover those. If you have muscle to build itll happen. But focus on getting to your preferred bf %. Then from there you can decide if youd like to follow a recomp style approach. Or If youd like to do a more classic slow bulk then cut. That is my preferred method.

As you will see your greatest changes following that method. Though you will see more ups and downs opposed to a more linear progression with recomp.

You're asking good questions and taking in the info. Keep doing that, putting the work in and you'll reach your goals.

sijomial

brandonedwards346 wrote: »

Lmao I told you I don’t know *kitten* about this lol. I figure if I kept my calories lower while working out like crazy, taking my protein, it would work! Guess I was wrong, but that’s why I’m asking people who know more! I’ll post pics of what the app recommends for grams, and see if you agree or think I should tweak it in any way

If you don't know how many calories you have been eating recently then the MFP recommendation for a slow rate of loss (or a TDEE calculator if you prefer a same every day goal) will get you to a decent start point if you are honest with how you answer the questions and select a slow rate of loss.
2,500 is often given as a very rough maintenance amount for the mythical "average man" but you have an active job which isn't average these days, you also exercise quite a lot which again pushes you above average.

It's not just protein that is muscle sparing in a deficit, it's also carbs and simply keeping the size of your deficit sensible.

PS - There are diet protocols that involve short duration cuts, big deficits and very high protein but they are really aimed at advanced trainees and completely unnecessary for where you are at.