Any cyclists out there?
kearly206
Posts: 63 Member
Been riding a lot lately with a smart bike because fires in the area I can’t really ride outside as much as I should. For anyone that likes cycling feel free to add me.
Also I would like a little climbing advise because I seem to reach a threshold when it comes to elevation, I hit 1100 feet of climb and I’m totally gassed. Is that just a fitness thing or more of a mental battle?
Also I would like a little climbing advise because I seem to reach a threshold when it comes to elevation, I hit 1100 feet of climb and I’m totally gassed. Is that just a fitness thing or more of a mental battle?
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Replies
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I'd call it a fitness thing attempting too fast a rate.
It would be like sprinting and not able to make it a mile on the track.
Well, that's because you are going too fast for doing a mile.
Slow down a there will be a pace to make it a mile.
Slow down more and make it over a mile.
Eventually that pace to get that distance will increase.
And interestingly it's usually improving the low end that allows that - meaning not going all out each trying to go farther and farther.
But improve the base fitness going slower, and that upper end of going faster for farther improves too.
You are pushing too hard to make it over 1100 ft.
Slow the pace down and you will.
Get in some base miles and improve base fitness, and everything will improve.
Technique on the climbing could also be making that worse than it needs to be.
Are you like cranking it out really slow cadence killing the quads, or keeping a spin up engaging many muscles?2 -
I'd call it a fitness thing attempting too fast a rate.
It would be like sprinting and not able to make it a mile on the track.
Well, that's because you are going too fast for doing a mile.
Slow down a there will be a pace to make it a mile.
Slow down more and make it over a mile.
Eventually that pace to get that distance will increase.
And interestingly it's usually improving the low end that allows that - meaning not going all out each trying to go farther and farther.
But improve the base fitness going slower, and that upper end of going faster for farther improves too.
You are pushing too hard to make it over 1100 ft.
Slow the pace down and you will.
Get in some base miles and improve base fitness, and everything will improve.
Technique on the climbing could also be making that worse than it needs to be.
Are you like cranking it out really slow cadence killing the quads, or keeping a spin up engaging many muscles?
Can you clarify or expand on this? First it sounds like you’re suggesting he go slower. Then at the end you’re suggesting he should go faster. 🤔0 -
You improve the base fitness at slower (longer if possible), after that is done the times of going faster are improved also.
The base miles talked about for cycling and running. Used to be coming out of winter when perhaps not as much was done.
Improves the mitochondria ability to use fat as fuel source, but more importantly just to have more of them in general.
After that improvement, you can now go faster for longer, compared to if that had not been done.
Training at just the high end doesn't make those same improvements as well or as fast, nor does it improve the low end nearly as well.
It can get slightly easier and the high end may increase a tad (either more intense or tad longer), but it usually is found not to help as much as improving the lower end.
If there was no goals of going longer, or more intense - then none of that matters.
Go as hard as you can for your short time available, enjoy the burn.
It's interesting years ago I recall reading some articles about how recreational riders have terrible training programs compared to even runners, despite usually the same desire to get faster.
Every group ride is as hard as you can, most single rides is as hard as you can. (that's me too!)
Improvements are still eeked out of that regiment, so it is rarely noticed that there could be a better way.
1 study took some participants and had them do an actual training program coming out of winter - base miles, intervals later, ect.
Other group kept doing the same routine they always did. Much bigger improvements in trained group.
But this was before the advent of so many home setups available for training well, so I'm not sure if it's allowing riders to do some programs, or if the Swift popularity just has them back at every ride as hard as you can.0 -
You will find quite a few cyclists contributing to a monthly freeform challenge thread.....
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10811453/october-2020-biking-cycling-bicycling-bike-bicycle-unicycle-tricycle-challenge#latest
You will also find 59 MFP members in a Strava challenge group here......
https://www.strava.com/clubs/mfp-cycling-challenge-group-179287
As for climbing, hard to know about a stranger's fitness levels but typically there's a big technique issue going on of someone over-using their leg muscles (which have a very limited duration for high intensity work) instead of relying on their CV systems (almost unlimited duration if you ration it carefully).
Keep your cadence up by using your gears appropriately. If you regularly run out of low enough gears then maybe consider a change of cassette.
Until the gradient gets extreme hills don't have to be that much harder - just slower. Watch your cadence and watch your heartrate and keep both at manageable levels.
I'm not a good climber (bit too heavy by cyclist's standards) but I can get up the extreme hills if I spin up them and pace myself. Until I run out of gears on long and hills I typically try to raise my cadence over my normal flat road rpm.
What good climbers do say is to get good on hills (as opposed to competent......) ride a lot of hills and try hard.
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Is your gearing appropriate for the hills you ride?0
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I'd call it a fitness thing attempting too fast a rate.
It would be like sprinting and not able to make it a mile on the track.
Well, that's because you are going too fast for doing a mile.
Slow down a there will be a pace to make it a mile.
Slow down more and make it over a mile.
Eventually that pace to get that distance will increase.
And interestingly it's usually improving the low end that allows that - meaning not going all out each trying to go farther and farther.
But improve the base fitness going slower, and that upper end of going faster for farther improves too.
You are pushing too hard to make it over 1100 ft.
Slow the pace down and you will.
Get in some base miles and improve base fitness, and everything will improve.
Technique on the climbing could also be making that worse than it needs to be.
Are you like cranking it out really slow cadence killing the quads, or keeping a spin up engaging many muscles?
Can you clarify or expand on this? First it sounds like you’re suggesting he go slower. Then at the end you’re suggesting he should go faster. 🤔
Effort = cadence * pedal force
You can put less effort into the bike which means going slower and do it at a faster cadence. At least sometimes. Climbing hills is where you might not be able to because you eventually run out of gears. (That's why I asked about gearing.)
Mashing, or pushing hard on the pedals at a low cadence, tends to fatigue people more quickly. Extreme example is standing on the pedals going up a steep hill, most people can only do that for 20 or 30 seconds. Spinning, meaning a light touch on the pedals and a fast cadence, shifts the burden from your leg muscles to your cardiovascular system. Even at the same effort level, spinning is less fatiguing for people with enough cardiovascular fitness to keep it up.0 -
Thank you everything for the responses, to be clear I’m on a smart bike indoors on Zwift for training.
My technique is poor because I am using low cadence to get up the hills but yesterday after 20 minutes of straight climbing at low cadence I was completely gassed after.
I’m trying to get my average wattage up as well, it seems like these are separate workouts. Is that right? I’ve increased my FTP by 20 watts in about a month but I’ve been wanting to do more climbing to incorporate strength and cardio fitness.
As far as hearing it’s a smart bike so I have unlimited options for hearing which is nice.
I try to train for a minimum of an hour to hour and a half. I do some structured workouts but with the one that had all the climbing like yesterday was just a loop that I chose on the app.
I will try more cadence less power, it’s tough though because the gradient got up to 13% I thought I could push up the hill but I was wrong 😂0 -
Been riding a lot lately with a smart bike because fires in the area I can’t really ride outside as much as I should. For anyone that likes cycling feel free to add me.
Also I would like a little climbing advise because I seem to reach a threshold when it comes to elevation, I hit 1100 feet of climb and I’m totally gassed. Is that just a fitness thing or more of a mental battle?
There's a few variables u gotta consider for climbing. Most of the mentioned. You gotta make sure your gearing is appropriate for the types of gradients your tackling. You may need to change the cassette, 11spd or 10? Are you going into the lowest gear, smallest chainring and still grinding away? Are you running a compact crankset?
Yeah and the cadence is king. Like when sitting down you probably wanna be at the least 80RPM...I alternate between sitting and standing. When I stand the RPM drops and I go to a higher gear and sort of use my body momentum and pull the crank arms too "dancing" . That's just a personal preference..
And yeah, if its like a bonking sensation your feeling just make sure you're stayiung hydrated and glycogen bein replenished.
Keep it up0 -
"after 20 minutes of straight climbing at low cadence I was completely gassed after"
Over-gearing (using too high a gear / too low a cadence) is a valid training protocol but a bit like HIIT (proper HIIT not jigging around in front of the TV marketed as HIIT....) should be used in the appropriate small dosage and short duration. Yes it does force an adaptation but it is fatiguing. A 20min block or 5min intervals within a training session both work. But it's highly unlikely you would/should do that every session.
"I’m trying to get my average wattage up as well, it seems like these are separate workouts. Is that right?"
Grinding up hills for short duration can be part of an overall training plan for improving FTP. Just like steady state and interval training can be part of that overall program. They all contribute in different ways to forcing adaptations. But sustainable power (FTP) is predominantly a function of CV improvements not muscle strength.
Depends where your fitness level is what proportion of endurance, tempo, threashold etc.... you should be doing.
If you are starting out then fitness is usually built from the base upwards with lots of long, slow sessions.
If you have a natural low cadence then working on getting it up to 80-100rpm can yield good results in your FTP score in a short timescale out of proportion to your actual fitness improvements. 65rpm used to be my natural cadence but my endurance was poor, getting it up to average 85rpm boosted my FTP score very quickly and also made my outdoor riding far better in terms of both endurance and coping with hills.
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Been riding a lot lately with a smart bike because fires in the area I can’t really ride outside as much as I should. For anyone that likes cycling feel free to add me.
Also I would like a little climbing advise because I seem to reach a threshold when it comes to elevation, I hit 1100 feet of climb and I’m totally gassed. Is that just a fitness thing or more of a mental battle?
Aerobically? or muscle fatigue? are you on your last gear in that climb?
ETA: nevermind on the last question (I just saw where you said it wasn't limited on your trainer type).0 -
Been riding a lot lately with a smart bike because fires in the area I can’t really ride outside as much as I should. For anyone that likes cycling feel free to add me.
Also I would like a little climbing advise because I seem to reach a threshold when it comes to elevation, I hit 1100 feet of climb and I’m totally gassed. Is that just a fitness thing or more of a mental battle?
Aerobically? or muscle fatigue? are you on your last gear in that climb?
ETA: nevermind on the last question (I just saw where you said it wasn't limited on your trainer type).
It’s for sure muscle fatigue, I’m caught between wanting to climb more and increasing my ftp while losing weight. I’m not lost but i am confused on how to progress, in the last month I’ve added 20 watts to my FTP of 195. Not bad for a beginner so I’ll take any improvement I get. I’ve gotten a lot of good advice as far as cadence is concerned so I will take these lessons with me. I’m trying to accomplish anything above 1500 foot climb.0 -
"after 20 minutes of straight climbing at low cadence I was completely gassed after"
Over-gearing (using too high a gear / too low a cadence) is a valid training protocol but a bit like HIIT (proper HIIT not jigging around in front of the TV marketed as HIIT....) should be used in the appropriate small dosage and short duration. Yes it does force an adaptation but it is fatiguing. A 20min block or 5min intervals within a training session both work. But it's highly unlikely you would/should do that every session.
"I’m trying to get my average wattage up as well, it seems like these are separate workouts. Is that right?"
Grinding up hills for short duration can be part of an overall training plan for improving FTP. Just like steady state and interval training can be part of that overall program. They all contribute in different ways to forcing adaptations. But sustainable power (FTP) is predominantly a function of CV improvements not muscle strength.
Depends where your fitness level is what proportion of endurance, tempo, threashold etc.... you should be doing.
If you are starting out then fitness is usually built from the base upwards with lots of long, slow sessions.
If you have a natural low cadence then working on getting it up to 80-100rpm can yield good results in your FTP score in a short timescale out of proportion to your actual fitness improvements. 65rpm used to be my natural cadence but my endurance was poor, getting it up to average 85rpm boosted my FTP score very quickly and also made my outdoor riding far better in terms of both endurance and coping with hills.
I’d have to look at my stats for average cadence, I’ve never been coached on a bike but I would gladly take a coach if I could find one. I would say on hills my average cadence is 70 and your saying lower gear and up cadence to 85-100. This is do able as I have “virtual gears” but putting it into practice on a 13% gradient will be the tough part.
I appreciate all your advice, when I’m on an actual bike I’ve gotten so much stronger endurance and strength just from training in doors during the week makes the bike far more enjoyable.
My end goal is going with my boss on a 2500 elevation climb ride but the distance is only about 30-35 miles. It’s the climbing I want to tackle.0 -
"putting it into practice on a 13% gradient will be the tough part"
Yep - definitely.
That's where correct gearing on your "real" bike comes in but TBH high gradient climbs force down your cadence unless you are a very strong rider.
My local range of hills has quite a selection of 15 - 20% climbs which you can't really practically gear for.
I would say that unless you have a high fitness level already then you would probably do better focussing on building your endurance first before putting on the "polish" of dedicated hard climbing. Can you already comfortably ride two hours at a reasonable pace?
Wattbike (and others) have free training plans online ( https://wattbike.com/us/training-plans ), they also have targetted training sessions on the Wattbike Hub app. If you look at the workouts they are mostly warm up, ramps, intervals etc.
Only the test protocols are push yourself really hard until you are completely gassed which should tell you something.
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Thank you everything for the responses, to be clear I’m on a smart bike indoors on Zwift for training.
My technique is poor because I am using low cadence to get up the hills but yesterday after 20 minutes of straight climbing at low cadence I was completely gassed after.
I’m trying to get my average wattage up as well, it seems like these are separate workouts. Is that right? I’ve increased my FTP by 20 watts in about a month but I’ve been wanting to do more climbing to incorporate strength and cardio fitness.
As far as hearing it’s a smart bike so I have unlimited options for hearing which is nice.
I try to train for a minimum of an hour to hour and a half. I do some structured workouts but with the one that had all the climbing like yesterday was just a loop that I chose on the app.
I will try more cadence less power, it’s tough though because the gradient got up to 13% I thought I could push up the hill but I was wrong 😂
If you're on Zwift, do a training program like their 4 or 6 week FTP Builder. As long as you're building your FTP, your endurance for rides and ability to tackle those climbs will come as your fitness comes along.
If you don't already have a cycling computer/HRM/power meter for outdoor riding, invest in them so that you can track your fitness outside. It makes a huge different to track your effort while you're riding and will help you pace yourself up hills. Obviously riding on Zwift, those metrics are displayed on the screen.
As far as ideal cadence, aim around 90 and you'll find what's most efficient for you. 85-90 is my ideal cadence. And an FTP of 195 is great! At my fittest that was the highest my FTP ever was.
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As you work on improving your fitness, why not just add more gears by decreasing the trainer difficulty? Low cadence work has it's place but it's not something I will do daily. Around 15-30 minutes total, not sustained, is what I shoot for weekly during my ad hoc weekend ride. Be careful of Zwift training plans, they are mostly geared to racing on Zwift. Haven't paid much attention to their new lineup but the older plans are just kitchen sink workouts that mimic a race. I use Trainerroad and like it much better. Just remembered to carve out a workout or two emphasizing muscular endurance (lower cadence in the 70s-80s, ideally sustained steady state at upper tempo to threshold).2
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