Fat Loss. Keto vs Calorie Deficit. Should I be eating back exercise calories??

anthonyetherington

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with a little advice
on the following.

I'm a 38 year old male, 180 lbs, 5'9.

I've always been active but had bad dietary habits, sweets, pizza
and as a result my body fat % crept up to 28%

Took an aggressive perhaps extreme approach to cutting
and I've been really disciplined so far but now I realise I need some help
with what kcal I should be consuming.

For the past 25 days I've been eating 850 kcal, low carb (under 30g) Monday-Friday then refuelling
over Saturday and Sunday training 5 days a week alternating cardio and weights.

I'm using a Fitbit Aria 2 and Polar OH1 to roughly track my progress.

On the 17.11 I was 193.6 lbs 28.1% body fat

Today (Day 25) I'm 178.8 lbs 25.1% body fat

I realise HR monitors aren't completely accurate but for the first 3 weeks
my Polar measured between 1700-2000kcal burned on Mondays, then around 1000 Tuesday, 5-700 Weds/Thurs
and 1000 again on Friday. I was also feeling incredibly fatigued from the low carb.

However this week I started back at my boxing club after lockdown and my kcal burnt has dramatically increased,
running to0 and from the club + boxing. Monday I hit 2750 kcal burnt, Tuesday 2000, Weds rest / weights, 2000 Thursday, today will be weights.
Also my fatigue has disappeared apart from general muscle soreness but the fog and feeling of sand in my legs is gone.

My 850 kcal diet was mostly protein for the first 3 weeks though increased the fat with eggs to try to combat the fatigue.
Yesterday for example MyFitnessPal logged my macros at 64% protein, 23% fat, 13% carbs.

Food Totals:859 kcal
MyFitnessPal prescribed for 2 lbs loss per week: 1500kcal

*You've earned 2,128 extra calories from exercise today
Yesterdays Daily Goal: 3,628 kcal

From what I can see I'm losing body fat at a rate of roughly 0.5 % each week,
but I'm losing weight in general much faster.

I'm happy to go down to 168 lbs max 161 lbs.

This is where I'm stuck...

My goal is 10% body fat which to reach I think I'm looking at June 2021,
however I need to figure out my daily kcal needs from when I get to 168 lbs.

I've read to burn body fat but at least maintain or potentially build muscle I should aim for 25% less than my TDEE...

MyFitnessPal suggests at 168 lbs my maintenance kcal would be: 2090 kcal daily

If on any given day I burn 2000 kcal boxing etc should I be also then be accounting for these exercise calories as my daily maintenance?
Then subsequently reduce the total by 25%?

I'll still be low carb / keto going forward. That just sounds like a lot: 4090 kcal - 25%: 3067.5 kcal

Advice on the internet is mixed, some platforms saying yes to eat back exercise calories as part of the TDEE
other sites saying not to! (But those latter sites also site relatively low intensity work out regimes as their reasons not to).

I checked out a couple of TDEE calculators which include exercise into the equation
but I don't understand how they can be an accurate guide without knowing how many calories burnt from each work out session?

To conclude.

My goal is fat loss without too much weight loss (past a certain point)
I'm comfortable with the idea of a 25% overall deficit of my day to day to account for fat burn aside low carb and high protein (around 2-2.4grams per kg) for muscle maintenance/growth.

But do I have to account for exercise calories burnt when I'm figuring out my daily needs?

Appreciate any guidance / advice!!! Figuring this out as I go.

Kind regards A

Lietchi

You've thrown a lot of numbers at us. But a few things jump out at me:
- you say you're eating 850 calories on weekdays, but 'refueling' in the weekend. Unless you are really indulging on the weekend (3000kcal or more per day) you are undereating. It's not healthy and you should eat more
- you say MFP gives you 1500 calories for losing 2lbs a week: MFP will never give a number lower than 1500 for a man, so most likely it's a lower number than that for that rate of loss. However, MFP gives you a base calorie goal based on your activity level WITHOUT intentional exercise. So if you indeed chose your activity level based on your daily activity, not counting exercise, you need to add calories burned by exercise to that calorie goal, or you will create a bigger deficit. It's a particularly bad idea to not eat back exercise calories in your case, since the rate of loss you selected (2lbs per week) is already too agressive for the weight you have left to lose. If you opt to not use the MFP method (base calorie goal +exercise calories) and want to use TDEE instead, you still need to include exercise in your calculations.
- For both methods, it's a good idea to do some research on accurate calorie burns for your exercise. Your exercise calories burned according to your tracker seem quite inflated, but without knowing precisely what you're doing (and for how long) it's hard to tell. Strength training especially is probably being overestimated.
- You've lost nearly 15lbs in 25 days - more than 4lbs per week. Way, way, way too fast! That might be okay for someone morbidly obese, but for you it's not. Despite your strength training, you're probably losing muscle. Choose a weight loss rate of 0.5lb a week (daily deficit of 250 calories), that would be much more appropriate.
- If you know how much you've been eating (including 'refueling' during weekends) it's quite easy to estimate your TDEE. Every lb lost equates to about 3500 calories deficit. So according to my calculations, you're at a 2000kcal per day deficit. (Since you probably lost water weight at the beginning, probably less than that, but still a huge deficit). Add up your average daily food intake over that same time period, and you have an estimated average daily TDEE.

Bottom line? Eat more!

Fuzzipeg

An item I heard yesterday relating to the UK's pointing the population to lose weight because of covid, excess weight being a contraindication for a good recovery. It was strongly suggested that poor sleep patterns can undermine weight loss attempts. Those of us who get a good 8 hours sleep do better, those who only get 5 or similar amounts of sleep get on less well, they tend on average to eat 200 more calories a day than those sleeping 8 hours. Those 200 calories soon add up to extra weight. (BBC R4, You and Yours, Thursday 10th, goes out,12-20 up to 12-55 week days.)

Lietchi

Fuzzipeg wrote: »

An item I heard yesterday relating to the UK's pointing the population to lose weight because of covid, excess weight being a contraindication for a good recovery. It was strongly suggested that poor sleep patterns can undermine weight loss attempts. Those of us who get a good 8 hours sleep do better, those who only get 5 or similar amounts of sleep get on less well, they tend on average to eat 200 more calories a day than those sleeping 8 hours. Those 200 calories soon add up to extra weight. (BBC R4, You and Yours, Thursday 10th, goes out,12-20 up to 12-55 week days.)

@Fuzzipeg I'm slightly confused, was this meant for another thread?

sijomial

Sorry but didn't this jump out at you as being unwise?
"Food Totals:859 kcal MyFitnessPal prescribed for 2 lbs loss per week: 1500kcal"
(+ exercise calories remember)

"MyFitnessPal suggests at 168 lbs my maintenance kcal would be: 2090 kcal daily"
(+ exercise calories remember).
I'm guessing you have picked a low activity level as I'm 168lbs and get 2500 + exercise calories.

"But do I have to account for exercise calories burnt when I'm figuring out my daily needs?"
Where do you think the energy for your exercise (just like every other energy need of your body...) comes from?
How would you ever maintain weight when you get to goal if you don't take exercise into account?

"I've read to burn body fat but at least maintain or potentially build muscle I should aim for 25% less than my TDEE..."
(Remember that TDEE includes exercise - there's a bit of theme here isn't there?)

"*You've earned 2,128 extra calories from exercise today"
Where did this number come come? Just from your Polar HRM during exercise? (Sounds like c. 4 hours of exercise if it was.) If it's coming from your Fitbit linked to MyFitnessPal then it's not just exercise, it's an adjustment including your daily activity. By the way all day trackers also include your exercise into their daily variable TDEE estimates just to round off the recurring theme.

"From what I can see I'm losing body fat at a rate of roughly 0.5 % each week, but I'm losing weight in general much faster."
Doesn't losing a lot of lean mass worry you? A lot of that in the early part of your cut could well be water weight related but if it's continuing then I'd assume you are losing muscle too. As you get leaner it gets far harder to retain muscle in the face of excessive deficits. I strongly suggest you have a serious think about what you are doing to yourself.

Dogmom1978

Please please just stop! You didn’t gain the weight overnight, why are you trying to lose it overnight? Your rate of loss is way too high. Your CHOSEN (2lbs a week) rate is also too high.

You need to fuel your body and your workouts. You are losing muscle and a lot of it by the sound of your very unhealthy weight loss.

Eat more, eat back exercise calories, slow your rate of loss to try to preserve some muscle before you do so much damage that it takes months or years to recover from. Honestly, with such a huge deficit, your weight training is a massive waste of time. Your body isn’t able to hold on to existing muscle if you keep treating it this way.

Listen to the advice above and treat your body better.