Intuitive Eating vs. Tracking Calories
niklong
Posts: 49 Member
Does anyone have experience with both? If so, what are your thoughts? For about 10 months I've been working with an IE coach. But I keep having the urge to go back to tracking calories. Just trying to decide what's best for me.
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Replies
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Personally, I don’t think I would be here trying to lose weight if intuitive eating worked for me. I need the structure of measuring my foods and ACTUALLY knowing what I’m eating.
I don’t think you’ll find many people on mfp that follow intuitive eating simply because it’s an app designed for people to track calories and the best way to do that is via a food scale.26 -
Before I answer is this part of a treatment plan for an eating disorder?14
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My experiment with intuitive eating resulted in my highest ever weight with no sign of my rate of gaining weight slowing down.
But I can, and do, maintain comfortably with mindful eating and no food logging. It's not a binary choice between log and count everything or intuitive eating.
My concern with a using an IE coach would be in elevating a tool to become more important that the actual results, tools should be a means to an end and not an end in themselves IMHO.6 -
I tracked and logged my food here for about a year or so. It was helpful to understand calorie and macro awareness but it was not a good fit for me long term.
What do you consider intuitive eating? What do you do with this coach? I can maintain my weight without issue intuitively but reaching my goals is a different story. So if I want to lose, gain, build muscle.. I have to be more mindful of what I am eating (protein levels, calorie amounts, going against hunger cues) but I can do it without tracking my intake.2 -
Before I answer is this part of a treatment plan for an eating disorder?
No, I haven't had an eating disorder. I mainly did it to have a better relationship with food. I felt that food controlled me rather than me feeling in control. I have learned some valuable principles, but I'm beginning to doubt that it's the right fit for me.7 -
I don't and haven't logged calories in years...but I also wouldn't call what I do "intuitive" eating. The only people I know who eat "intuitively" are my young children who stop eating when they've had enough, even though there might be plenty of tasty goodness still sitting there right in front of them. To that end, they are 8 and 10 and I'm already seeing that start to change with boredom eating and the like, especially with my 10 YO.
I don't log, but I am mindful of what I'm eating in regards to portions as well as nutrition, timing, and planning...none of which I would identify as "intuitive"5 -
Before I answer is this part of a treatment plan for an eating disorder?
No, I haven't had an eating disorder. I mainly did it to have a better relationship with food. I felt that food controlled me rather than me feeling in control. I have learned some valuable principles, but I'm beginning to doubt that it's the right fit for me.
I think there is a problem with learning to eat intuitively that I cannot get around. If you are being taught tools, you are acting intentionally or deliberately. I cannot grasp how making deliberate food or portion choices is different than calorie counting.
I am also not entirely sure what IE was meant to do for your food relationship. My relationship with food changed through awareness. I know the amount I need to eat and I know what eating in surplus will cost me if I allow it to go unchecked again.12 -
Before I answer is this part of a treatment plan for an eating disorder?
No, I haven't had an eating disorder. I mainly did it to have a better relationship with food. I felt that food controlled me rather than me feeling in control. I have learned some valuable principles, but I'm beginning to doubt that it's the right fit for me.
I think there is a problem with learning to eat intuitively that I cannot get around. If you are being taught tools, you are acting intentionally or deliberately. I cannot grasp how making deliberate food or portion choices is different than calorie counting.
I am also not entirely sure what IE was meant to do for your food relationship. My relationship with food changed through awareness. I know the amount I need to eat and I know what eating in surplus will cost me if I allow it to go unchecked again.
^^^
Second this. I changed my relationship with food by being aware of how much I was eating before and how much I eat now. I know that I can have my double stuff Oreos, but I can only have 2 instead of the 6-8 I used to have. The same with any other food (particularly sweets as those have and always will be my favorites).7 -
I was part of a challenge last month that did not track calories but was a mix of IE and other healthy habits. I improved some habits (more water, exercise and veggies) but also gained weight. The only thing that works for me in weight loss is counting calories, well that and divorce - but I wouldn't recommend that as a regular nutritional plan!9
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I experimented rather briefly with a form of IE (not a formal program) after losing while calorie counting, and maintaining that way for a while. Maybe I didn't give it a fair try, but it wasn't a good fit for me, at that point at least.
I don't think I generally have a bad relationship with food (other than liking pleasure too much), nor do I feel obsessive about calorie counting. (I can skip days without freaking out, estimate when traveling, didn't stop eating in restaurants or food based socializing because of counting, don't stress over scale fluctuations or even minor fat gain, for example). It's more like a fun science fair experiment, to me.
Personally, I'm happier and more relaxed with counting. It doesn't take a lot of time (after a couple weeks to a month of learning tips and tricks, and getting MFP "recent foods" populated): Maybe 10 minutes or so most days? I feel much more confident about eating indulgent, enjoyable things occasionally, because I have a really clear idea what the impact will be, so I can decide whether it's worth it or not. (Often, the impact is effectively zero, which is calming.) It reduces my emotions around eating, making it into a data-based decision (and I'm a data geek). That works for me, wouldn't/doesn't work for everyone.
In one sense, it's like having a financial budget. I know what I can "spend" on carrot cake or craft beer, without unduly compromising bodyweight or nutrition (similar to knowing whether one can afford a new TV without compromizing on the mortgage or health insurance).
I think this is an area where people need to know themselves, and make choices that maximize their personal strengths, and minimize their personal limitations. Counting *can* be obsessive and stressful (or just logistically annoying), or it can be easy, routine and reassuring, depending on very personal, individual inclinations and preferences.
If you're fairly certain you wouldn't become stressed or obsessed, you could consider committing to a one-month experiment, and see how it goes? (If you'd reported an ED history, I would *not* suggest that, BTW.)9 -
I tried IE and it was a disaster. I ended up at my highest weight ever, over 330 pounds. Definitely not saying a calamity like that would happen to everyone, and perhaps IE works great for some people, but not me.
Calorie counting just works for me. I really find it liberating, in that I get to eat whatever I want, as long as it doesn't exceed the target number. I don't have to deny myself anything I love, like pizza, cheeseburgers, etc., all I have to do is control my portions, which I find doable.
The instant I stop counting calories, I start gaining weight. It's like clockwork. If I stop counting on Tuesday, on Wednesday I am gaining weight. The following Wednesday, my jeans are getting tighter.
I've combined calorie counting with intermittent fasting and I think it's really the combination of the two that's clicked with me, but that is beyond the scope of this thread's question.14 -
Intuitive eating works if you naturally eat about your maintenance calorie level.
It takes about 500 calories above maintenance for me to be satisfied so this method doesn’t work for me.8 -
IE only worked for me in living situations where I was not shopping or cooking and did not have access to high calorie hyper-palatable foods.
This time of year I intuitively want to do lots and lots of baking and eating
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I've combined calorie counting with intermittent fasting and I think it's really the combination of the two that's clicked with me, but that is beyond the scope of this thread's question.
Same here!
IE meanwhile is how I got so fat and being "mindful" or eating slowly etc etc is a no go with me too. I like food and stopping once I have started is the challenge as my point of having had enough seems to be far higher than the amount I need for maintenance. So I have to calorie count and stop when the maths says stop, IF being the key help me do that.
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I'm no good at intuitive eating. Gotta track.
Turns out I have very little ability to know if I'm full :-)8 -
Intuitive eating works if you naturally eat about your maintenance calorie level.
It takes about 500 calories above maintenance for me to be satisfied so this method doesn’t work for me.
I've never tried to pin down what my natural caloric level to be reasonably "satisfied" would be, but I have taken days off where I then retrospectively added up the calories to see what the damage was - in which I was just eating normally, not shoving Haagen Dazs down my gullet but enjoying 3 nicely filling meals and a snack or two, a glass of wine, maybe having a meal out at a restaurant (pre covid), etc.
Inevitably, each of the 5 or 6 times I did that post-game analysis my caloric intake totaled out to right around 3,300 calories, +/- 100 each time. Given that my TDEE is 2350, it seems I would gain 2 lbs/week just blindly eating to the point of being happy with my food (but not binging). I think this is why I need to count calories. And in fact I do tend to gain about 2 lbs/week when I'm not counting/logging/weighing. It goes back on a lot faster than it comes off.8 -
TBH I think any method that sounds easy to follow like intuitive eating is bound to fail. If one is obese the body's intuition is to keep eating until it's satisfied, something has to give. If your body's set point level or plateau is 270 lbs it will want to make sure it stays that way, you have to convince or teach it to start burning. To lose weight mindful eating is key, sure once the target is achieved I guess one can be intuitive but by that time your body will have adapted and learnt. a new plateau is set, hopefully a lower one. Intuitive eating can be a safe tool to maintain but not to change.3
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sure once the target is achieved I guess one can be intuitive but by that time your body will have adapted and learnt. a new plateau is set, hopefully a lower one. Intuitive eating can be a safe tool to maintain but not to change.
Not for me, sadly. I reached goal and beyond and then maintained for about 18 months, sort of: my weight was actually creeping back up all through that period, as can be seen from my monthly average weights after I reached my lowest weight: they were 71.43kg, 71.79kg, 72.57kg, 73.41kg, 73.95kg, 74.35kg, 74.82kg, 75.09kg, 76.55kg, 77.59kg, and you can see that I was gaining about 1lb per month. So my "intuitive eating" was moving me up through maintenance. Then I had a course of medication which caused me to gain 2kgs in as many weeks, I was away from home and eating out a lot, and then peri-menopause. What with one thing any another, I gained back everything I had lost.3 -
Doesn't work for me as I can't estimate how much calories I have on my plate at all, and satiety only kicks in a while after eating.6
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Doesn't work for me as I can't estimate how much calories I have on my plate at all, and satiety only kicks in a while after eating.
If you estimate your calories you are not eating intuitively anyway. The main reason I can't eat intuitively is that for the things I eat regularly I can estimate my calories now. I can even grab a serving of cheese from a bag and be within a gram of 28. I can't unlearn that and I don't want to unlearn it.
I believe if I stopped counting calories tomorrow I would continue eating right around the same amount I normally do for a couple of months at least. I also believe that as more time passes my calories will begin to creep up again. If I follow through with my agreement (with myself) to continue logging for 5 years of maintenance perhaps my estimating skills will get so reinforced I won't worry about it, maybe not.
There are days when my brain and the log do not sync up. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. Usually when I see a number on my log that doesn't make sense I am right and there is a logging error. Occasionally though it doesn't seem right but it is right. Those are the days that remind me that my mental tally is still fallible.4 -
IE led me right up to gaining all the weight I did, and partially back up again after covid hit and I quit tracking and working out like I had been.
I almost never over stuffed myself, but I will remain hungry (not just enjoying the food, but actually hungry) for a good 30-60 minutes (or more - I often go to bed still feeling hungry) after I've finished a (weighed and measured and counted calories) meal/day. If I was to use IE, I would eat more than that....hence gaining the weight. Right now I am strictly calorie counting, and going through a challenge so working out more than normal, and I'm losing less than 1.5 lbs/week - which is right on point for where I have my calories set. I am hungry - actually hungry - most days.
My appetite has never really adjusted to my overall lowered activity levels after getting a desk job and no longer having physical jobs. It is not a reliable litmus test for me. It worked just fine until I found myself with a desk job, and even 10 years later, it has never adjusted to a proper hunger level. I'm sure part of it was that for most of my life (well into my 30's) I was so active, the bigger issue was generally eating enough, not worrying about eating too much. If I did start to put on a couple pounds, I'd just cut back on the fast food and soda for a few weeks...now, sitting on my bum most of a day means I can only eat about 1/2 to 2/3 of the calories I used to consume. My brain/body/hunger has never fully accepted that as truth LOL.2 -
Intuitive eating works if you naturally eat about your maintenance calorie level.
It takes about 500 calories above maintenance for me to be satisfied so this method doesn’t work for me.
That was the same level for me, reliably gained 1lb / week by eating to my hunger signals. That was when I was 30lbs heavier and with a desk job and not much opportunity for exercise.
Now I'm lighter, more physically active (retired) and lots of time to exercise my maintenance calories are far higher and the gap between what I want to eat and actually need to eat has narrowed considerably. Without being mindful of my needs I'd probably gain at rate of 1lb / month instead.3 -
I've done both.
Some of the things I like about intuitive eating:
1) It is adaptive depending on your hunger. There are days where you are naturally more hungry and naturally less. If I am counting calories, I will 100% eat every single calorie because it is there. But that means on the hungrier days, I am just white knuckling through. With IE, you can adapt without the freak out of "oh no, I'm not eating enough!... or I'm eating too much!"
2) I find that I, personally, focus on food less and therefore eat less.
3) Not having to log big recipes, not weighing and measuring
4) Not having to figure out overall calories vs workouts
5) Being able to eat anything without logging and just having your fullness be the measure.
6) I find that I am more sensitive to my body's needs for certain nutrients.
Some of the things I dislike:
1) It is not as reliable or accurate as calorie counting.
2) The types of food you eat will dictate your hunger. Even if you continue eating because you are really hungry, you can consume too many calories.
3) Food wastage- sometimes eating to hunger means you have more left over on your plate.
4) Lack of food control- If you are having a meh day, it would be easier just the put things MFP and know exactly what your day looks like, no big decision making, rather than having to exercise control over hunger and be mindful. Sometimes you just don't feel like fighting.4 -
FWIW, I actually have found that my appetite seems to have declined (from obese Ann's level) after a period of time in maintenance . . . started noticing it around year 4.5, or thereabouts. 😆 (I assume that whether this happens or not, and when, is very individual.)
That's nice, and a little helpful. But my 'problem' is pleasure-seeking, and the feeling of very-fullness isn't particularly unpleasant to me (as I know it is for some). Therefore, the effect of reduced appetite is mainly to limit the top end of indulgent days to around twice TDEE, rather than around three times TDEE. IOW, I'd still gain weight. When counting, I can better arrange my life as I choose (occasional very indulgent days intact) and still maintain my weight.
That's tangent to any concept of "intuitive eating" of course. Framing the question as "counting vs. intuitive eating" potentially leaves out some territory.
For me, the only issue is not simply an inability to eat intuitively (though I did have trouble with that in maintenance when I tried). Rather, for me, one significant issue is a lack of inclination or commitment to go that route. I might over-eat sometimes out of pleasure-seeking, and gain (likely); but I'd also be more anxious about overeating by accident, and anxiety is optional in my world, because I dislike emotional drama Really A Lot. Counting takes little time or energy, and addresses both of those pretty painlessly, for me.
IMO, the best plans/strategies are personalized to an individual's preferences, strengths and limitations. Overcoming one's limitations or changing one's preferences is character building, but gotta choose the battles.3 -
Intuitive eating works if you naturally eat about your maintenance calorie level.
It takes about 500 calories above maintenance for me to be satisfied so this method doesn’t work for me.
I've never tried to pin down what my natural caloric level to be reasonably "satisfied" would be, but I have taken days off where I then retrospectively added up the calories to see what the damage was - in which I was just eating normally, not shoving Haagen Dazs down my gullet but enjoying 3 nicely filling meals and a snack or two, a glass of wine, maybe having a meal out at a restaurant (pre covid), etc.
Inevitably, each of the 5 or 6 times I did that post-game analysis my caloric intake totaled out to right around 3,300 calories, +/- 100 each time. Given that my TDEE is 2350, it seems I would gain 2 lbs/week just blindly eating to the point of being happy with my food (but not binging). I think this is why I need to count calories. And in fact I do tend to gain about 2 lbs/week when I'm not counting/logging/weighing. It goes back on a lot faster than it comes off.
Same. My natural eating has me gaining 1 lb a week on average and it is very slow to come off. That’s not even binging or indulging in treats. What I described is just to satisfy my hunger. To lose weight I am mostly in a constant state of hunger which is uncomfortable.2 -
"Intuitive eating" brought me all the way up to 253 pounds so, yeah.... No-go for me. I wish.2
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My natural eating has me gaining 1 lb a week on average and it is very slow to come off. That’s not even binging or indulging in treats. What I described is just to satisfy my hunger. To lose weight I am mostly in a constant state of hunger which is uncomfortable.
That realyl does sound uncomfortable and for me it would not be sustainable. You've been around for a long time, so I assume you have experimented unsuccessfully to find what low calorie foods might fill you up better?1 -
I really really love the concept of IE and mindful eating (and think it's good to practice regardless of your method). However for me, as I've lost touch over the years due to overeating and overly restrictive eating, I feel I need to track. I look at it this way: I'm more of a top-down person when it comes to this: by focusing on the details of what and when I'm eating, I can then start to focus on how I feel when I'm eating, if I'm hungry, how long can I go feeling just a little bit hungry, eating slowly and mindfully, etc. I find this works for me.1
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I spent most of my life on the thinner side and gained a small amount of weight five years ago, enough to barely bump me into overweight but it horrified me to feel fat and frumpy. I went into panic mode about the number on the scale, too, and a friend suggested this app after I told her how I had to lose a little weight. That is how I wound up here. I tracked for a few weeks, got on track, lost and stopped tracking and that was five years ago.
My parents, also smaller people, don't calorie count. Some people don't have to. I ran a Marathon with my brother-in-law earlier this year and I asked him if he counted calories and macros and he looked at me as if I was speaking a foreign language.
Calorie counting brought me here, yes it did, but I stay for community because I like it!!!2 -
My natural eating has me gaining 1 lb a week on average and it is very slow to come off. That’s not even binging or indulging in treats. What I described is just to satisfy my hunger. To lose weight I am mostly in a constant state of hunger which is uncomfortable.
That realyl does sound uncomfortable and for me it would not be sustainable. You've been around for a long time, so I assume you have experimented unsuccessfully to find what low calorie foods might fill you up better?
Yeah that has been my struggle. It doesn’t seem to matter what combination of foods I eat. I do find carbs more filling and satisfying and eat higher carb now. Unfortunately, fats and protein don’t fill me up much.3
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