Question for PT's and/or strength/rehab "experts" about hamstring strength/relation to injury

Speakeasy76

I posted a few weeks ago about pain under my kneecap, which is most likely patellar tendonitis. Wanna give a shout-out to the people who helped, and the person who recommended the straps: I've used those past few workouts and it seems to really help.

A bit of background about me and my training: I have a long history of chronic low back pain due to disc degeneration, probably brought on years and years ago when I hurt myself in my 20's during a leg press. I've been in PT a number of times, and the last go-around really seemed to help, as well as me doing more glute-focused training. I followed Bret Contreras' total body programs in his Glute Lab book, during 3 total body days/week with glute focus, and just recently began a periodization phase with a focus on improving my back squats and pull-up/chin-ups. I always include one hamstring-dominant exercise in my training and of course I know anything that targets the glutes will also target the hamstrings, at least secondarily.

My question/thought is: Now that my knee is bothering me (which I knew would happen eventually), should I do a little more from my hamstrings? I'm super flexible there, but probably not as strong. I tend to get more sore than anything, even though I feel like I'm activating my glutes (and don't actually feel my hamstrings taking over when they shouldn't). Also aesthetically, I seem to need more "lift" back there and always have (and still have a bit) what my old college friend used to call "shelves"--that extra fat just under the butt at the top of the thigh. At my age and wisdom, I don't get as much "body hang-ups," but am wondering if functionally I need to do a bit more there, or just continue with what I'm doing and they will come along, too.

heybales

Backing off quad's just to maintenance level perhaps to give some relief and see if time is needed to heal the knee, may allow progressing on the hammy's anyway.
If hammy's always followed quad/glute focus in the workout, may have been a tad worn out by then and they didn't get the progress they could have had.

Speakeasy76

heybales wrote: »

Backing off quad's just to maintenance level perhaps to give some relief and see if time is needed to heal the knee, may allow progressing on the hammy's anyway.
If hammy's always followed quad/glute focus in the workout, may have been a tad worn out by then and they didn't get the progress they could have had.

Thank you, this makes sense.

ninerbuff

Is there anyway you could post a video of you squatting with whatever weight you use? Alot of times people believe that their form is spot on and many times I'm able to tweak out where they may do little things such as slightly leaning too far forward on their squats causing their heels to slightly raise off the floor. Which intern affects the stress on the knee.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Speakeasy76

ninerbuff wrote: »

Is there anyway you could post a video of you squatting with whatever weight you use? Alot of times people believe that their form is spot on and many times I'm able to tweak out where they may do little things such as slightly leaning too far forward on their squats causing their heels to slightly raise off the floor. Which intern affects the stress on the knee.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I'll try to do that at home. I don't have a squat rack but do have a barbell and some weight plates. I go to the gym by myself and don't really no anyone and would feel weird. The only person I kind of know is the personal trainer (coworker's husband) and I don't know him well at all. He obviously would be the perfect person to ask about form, but I am not that bold so I just ask strangers on the internet.

I try to check my form in the mirror because I know I need visual cues and can't always feel things well in my own body. I do know I need to work on my ankle mobility , esp. in my right ankle and try super hard not to do the dreaded "butt wink."

heybales

And unless you are super skilled - the mere act of looking in a mirror sideways doing a squat will throw you off.
Next time driving on open road look far right into that field and see if you have that skill. Maybe not.

Setting up phone to start recording dead on sideways, and then from the back on another set, can be trimmed down before upload. Save to social media account but not shared unless you have link, is other way to get it up there for Niner to see.

Speakeasy76

ninerbuff wrote: »

Is there anyway you could post a video of you squatting with whatever weight you use? Alot of times people believe that their form is spot on and many times I'm able to tweak out where they may do little things such as slightly leaning too far forward on their squats causing their heels to slightly raise off the floor. Which intern affects the stress on the knee.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Hopefully you're able to see something from these. I'm not great at setting up my phone to film myself, and I don't have one of those pop socket thingies. I would like to squat deeper, but this is as deep as I can go without messing up my form (and like you said, there is still probably room for improvement).

https://youtu.be/9vG29pSdsE0

https://youtu.be/tfN-LX76PuI

heybales

I'll say it appeared from 1st video the bar was not over your midfoot for good balance as you went down.
The 2nd video showing your toes poking up at various times and almost appeared more like the forefoot, I think says it too.

Also, are those squishy running shoes?

ninerbuff

1st video: So your knees don't move forward much at all. Ideally you want the angle of your shin and back angles to be parallel at the bottom of your squat. If you're feeling knee pain on this, then I'm assuming it's just the tendonitis you mentioned. I have it too, but it's completely reduced when I wear knee sleeves.

2nd video: It could be the camera angle, but it looks like you push off more on your left leg than your right. Which knee hurts?

Sorry I took so long to get back.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Speakeasy76

heybales wrote: »

I'll say it appeared from 1st video the bar was not over your midfoot for good balance as you went down.
The 2nd video showing your toes poking up at various times and almost appeared more like the forefoot, I think says it too.

Also, are those squishy running shoes?

Thanks for your tips. They aren't running shoes, but a Reebok cross training shoe. They midfoot is actually not very squishy a all, and I think they were designed more for Cross Fit.

Speakeasy76

ninerbuff wrote: »

1st video: So your knees don't move forward much at all. Ideally you want the angle of your shin and back angles to be parallel at the bottom of your squat. If you're feeling knee pain on this, then I'm assuming it's just the tendonitis you mentioned. I have it too, but it's completely reduced when I wear knee sleeves.

2nd video: It could be the camera angle, but it looks like you push off more on your left leg than your right. Which knee hurts?

Sorry I took so long to get back.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Thank you for getting back to me and for your feedback. These are things I haven't really thought about/paid attention to much before. I'm usually thinking about my back angle, making sure my butt doesn't "wink," and making sure my knees don't cave in. I actually have a knee strap that I've been using, but of course left it at home the day I filmed. I may have been protecting the knee a bit more. I probably was pushing off of my left more, as it is my right knee that's bothering me. My right ankle is also relatively weak and "crunchy" and have much more limited more ability in it. I know it's all connected, as it's typically the right side of my low back/SI joint that bothers me more.