Auto immune protocol

filog3616

Anyone following the AIP? I’m looking into it but completely confused any advice/resources recommended

MikePfirrman

There are Facebook groups of people that follow it. Looked into it when my wife was suffering from Fibromyalgia. Was unimpressed by what I found. C Reactive proteins are the classic blood markers for inflammation. Nearly all the studies on AIP have demonstrated that it helps IBS but C Reactive proteins didn't budge -- so inflammation stayed the same.

But there are people that swear by it. Just not a lot of science behind it as far as I can tell. But eliminating sugar and gluten will help, long term, with pain.

My personal two cents -- when people tend to do AIP, they replace healthier fiber with meat, which is inflammatory. But it's easier for them than going gluten free Mediterranean Diet or DASH diet, which have been proven to reduce pain. So has gluten free vegan, but that's very hard to do.

filog3616

Thank you! Yes it seems everywhere I look I see different versions! I had initially seen a recommendation for essentially gluten free vegan but I don’t think I could just jump right into that then I saw some fb groups which just confused me more as they would include food I thought wasn’t recommended so now I’m just confused. I’m trying it for my psoriasis I’ve seen a lot of positive posts in fb groups I’m in but as you say they all seem to do different things. I think I’ll try gluten and dairy free for the interim and see if I notice a change.

gigius72

@filog3616 it might be different from people to people.
My wife was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis over 10 years ago. Her Specialist told her that food had nothing to do and she was supposed to be on anti inflammatory all her life. After a couple of years of blood tests and increasing pain she decided to start eating like me (I had just turned vegan a couple of years before). I was not gluten free.
I can't tell you when it started, but after a few years I reminded my wife that she needed to go to her visit and her blood test. She told me she didn't need it. She had slowed down with her meds and eventually stopped talking them without saying anything.
Now she's been eating meat again, it's been about 6-7 months. We are waiting to see if her symptoms come back or she can live without a vegan diet.
I've heard people who react on gluten and other people who react on nightshade vegetables.
I'm with the line of doctors who say that animal protein causes as much inflammation as sugar does. But of course there are other doctors who claim the opposite.

filog3616

gigius72 wrote: »

@filog3616 it might be different from people to people.
My wife was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis over 10 years ago. Her Specialist told her that food had nothing to do and she was supposed to be on anti inflammatory all her life. After a couple of years of blood tests and increasing pain she decided to start eating like me (I had just turned vegan a couple of years before). I was not gluten free.
I can't tell you when it started, but after a few years I reminded my wife that she needed to go to her visit and her blood test. She told me she didn't need it. She had slowed down with her meds and eventually stopped talking them without saying anything.
Now she's been eating meat again, it's been about 6-7 months. We are waiting to see if her symptoms come back or she can live without a vegan diet.
I've heard people who react on gluten and other people who react on nightshade vegetables.
I'm with the line of doctors who say that animal protein causes as much inflammation as sugar does. But of course there are other doctors who claim the opposite.

That’s great! I know most doctors don’t see the correlation between psoriasis/ psoriatic arthritis with diet but I’ve been looking into non medicinal options as I really don’t want to take immunosuppressant medication especially during a pandemic. I’ve been reading a lot of Hannah Sillitoe books ( she’s been clear from psoriasis using diet) but she is completely vegan, gluten free which I thought was what I needed to do but then other places I see people still eating meat (lots of it) and various other items which she stresses aren’t good for the gut and immune system. So I was wondering what would be best. Obviously I’ll need to play around. I guess veganism is something I’m so unfamiliar with but not against trying and perhaps if I miss having meat I could try reintroduction also!
Thank you for your input!

gigius72

@filog3616 you see this in nutrition studies. What food X does to you? When you introduce a food to test you eliminate something to keep same calories. Some people in the study eat food Z and some food Y. Has the combination with food X an important effect? It is very hard to actually figure out how good a food is.
Same here. Is the meat that vegan get rid of that helps against inflammation? Or is it a type of food they increase in exchange of meat. People who eats lots of meat, what else they eat? Do they eat something that fights the inflammation that meat protein causes? Or maybe something in some vegan diets causes inflammation and who eats lots of meat don't eat that something vegan people eat?
It is very tough to tell.

MikePfirrman

filog3616 wrote: »

Thank you! Yes it seems everywhere I look I see different versions! I had initially seen a recommendation for essentially gluten free vegan but I don’t think I could just jump right into that then I saw some fb groups which just confused me more as they would include food I thought wasn’t recommended so now I’m just confused. I’m trying it for my psoriasis I’ve seen a lot of positive posts in fb groups I’m in but as you say they all seem to do different things. I think I’ll try gluten and dairy free for the interim and see if I notice a change.

For what it's worth, I quit Gluten for my wife. I had psoriasis on my back for like 15 years. Found out I was Celiac -- all the rashes went away within months and haven't came back at all.

whoami67

I have done it in the past and had success with it. It's an elimination diet used temporarily, not permanently. I've never heard of it being vegan as it does incorporate eating organ meats and offal, along with a whole lot of vegetables. I used information from Sarah Ballantyne, Mickey Trescott and Terry Wahls, primarily. I haven't kept up with it, but I know Terry Wahls was in clinical trials using her protocol for MS, and some other research studies had shown significant lowering of c reactive protein from the Ballantyne plan.

I'd recommend Sarah Ballantyne's books plus
thepaleomom.com
phoenixhelix.com

also hewontknowitspaleo.com had some good recipes, but I don't think the site is still updated regularly. The recipes are still there, though.

MikePfirrman

whoami67 wrote: »

I have done it in the past and had success with it. It's an elimination diet used temporarily, not permanently. I've never heard of it being vegan as it does incorporate eating organ meats and offal, along with a whole lot of vegetables. I used information from Sarah Ballantyne, Mickey Trescott and Terry Wahls, primarily. I haven't kept up with it, but I know Terry Wahls was in clinical trials using her protocol for MS, and some other research studies had shown significant lowering of c reactive protein from the Ballantyne plan.

I'd recommend Sarah Ballantyne's books plus
thepaleomom.com
phoenixhelix.com

also hewontknowitspaleo.com had some good recipes, but I don't think the site is still updated regularly. The recipes are still there, though.

I'd like to see those studies. The AIP entire promotion group touted their upcoming studies for nearly five years and when two of them finally came out, they showed improved IBS symptoms and improved self reported digestion, but C Reactive protein didn't budge.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28858071/

whoami67

As I said, my positive experience with AIP is years old. It works well for some and not for others, I suppose depending on what your health issues and personal sensitivities are. At the time, I was well versed in the minutiae of the diet and the science. I am not now and don't have any interest in spending time becoming so. And at the time, I was looking to improve cfs, fibromyalgia, chronic pain and thyroid disease. I have never had high c reactive protein levels. The original poster asked if anyone had done the diet. I have. I recommend trying it. She was looking for advice/resources. I gave both.

Here's one study where c reactive protein was lowered, but I don't really understand what that has to do with much of anything.
https://www.cureus.com/articles/18455-efficacy-of-the-autoimmune-protocol-diet-as-part-of-a-multi-disciplinary-supported-lifestyle-intervention-for-hashimotos-thyroiditis

Editing this to add that I've never had IBS or digestive disorders so I can't speak to its efficacy in that regard.

MikePfirrman

whoami67 wrote: »

As I said, my positive experience with AIP is years old. It works well for some and not for others, I suppose depending on what your health issues and personal sensitivities are. At the time, I was well versed in the minutiae of the diet and the science. I am not now and don't have any interest in spending time becoming so. And at the time, I was looking to improve cfs, fibromyalgia, chronic pain and thyroid disease. I have never had high c reactive protein levels. The original poster asked if anyone had done the diet. I have. I recommend trying it. She was looking for advice/resources. I gave both.

Here's one study where c reactive protein was lowered, but I don't really understand what that has to do with much of anything.
https://www.cureus.com/articles/18455-efficacy-of-the-autoimmune-protocol-diet-as-part-of-a-multi-disciplinary-supported-lifestyle-intervention-for-hashimotos-thyroiditis

Editing this to add that I've never had IBS or digestive disorders so I can't speak to its efficacy in that regard.

whoami67 wrote: »

As I said, my positive experience with AIP is years old. It works well for some and not for others, I suppose depending on what your health issues and personal sensitivities are. At the time, I was well versed in the minutiae of the diet and the science. I am not now and don't have any interest in spending time becoming so. And at the time, I was looking to improve cfs, fibromyalgia, chronic pain and thyroid disease. I have never had high c reactive protein levels. The original poster asked if anyone had done the diet. I have. I recommend trying it. She was looking for advice/resources. I gave both.

Here's one study where c reactive protein was lowered, but I don't really understand what that has to do with much of anything.
https://www.cureus.com/articles/18455-efficacy-of-the-autoimmune-protocol-diet-as-part-of-a-multi-disciplinary-supported-lifestyle-intervention-for-hashimotos-thyroiditis

Editing this to add that I've never had IBS or digestive disorders so I can't speak to its efficacy in that regard.

It's just good to see, as the first two studies on AIP didn't show any difference in C-Reactive Proteins, which is the classic marker of inflammation. And since most are on the AIP for pain, it certainly does matter.

If I had to guess, in this study, they really emphasized to them not only what not to eat, but also what to eat -- more vegetables, which makes the huge difference.

I'm not completely anti AIP. I think it teaches people what to avoid. But I've also seen too many just eat a lot of meat on it and stay seriously inflammed as well.

My wife had Fibro. That's why we looked into it very closely. My wife even created, at one time, a FB support group for Fibro, after she overcame it. Out of the 3K plus members, every single one that had reached a point of little or no pain, they all were eating either gluten free vegan or gluten free DASH or Mediterranean with limited meat/cow cheese. It was pretty stunning.

filog3616

whoami67 wrote: »

I have done it in the past and had success with it. It's an elimination diet used temporarily, not permanently. I've never heard of it being vegan as it does incorporate eating organ meats and offal, along with a whole lot of vegetables. I used information from Sarah Ballantyne, Mickey Trescott and Terry Wahls, primarily. I haven't kept up with it, but I know Terry Wahls was in clinical trials using her protocol for MS, and some other research studies had shown significant lowering of c reactive protein from the Ballantyne plan.

I'd recommend Sarah Ballantyne's books plus
thepaleomom.com
phoenixhelix.com

also hewontknowitspaleo.com had some good recipes, but I don't think the site is still updated regularly. The recipes are still there, though.

Thank you for this information I’ll definitely have a look! The gluten free vegan comes from someone called Hannah Sillitoe who is highly popular in skin problems. She had psoriasis and severe eczema which she has put into remission with that kind of diet which was what my first knowledge of these types of diet were but after joining various AIP groups it seems that’s not the only option. I’m willing to try anything to avoid medications. I’m aware AIP is a blend of eliminating foods and then gradually reintroducing foods to monitor reaction and if fine then they can be added back into diets.
Definitely need more knowledge though! Thank you

Speakeasy76

I actually came back to this post because I just got back from my first physical therapist appointment...this time around (4th stint overall). She mentioned possibly looking into an anti-infllammatory diet, of course with disclaimers that she is not a nutritionist. I'm wondering if anyone has met with an integrative nutritionist to have blood tests that may help with this, or if anyone has had success with this type of diet.

I guess I basically have osteoarthrisitis in my lumbar spine at 44 years old and have been plagued with chronic aches and pains for at least the past 10-15 years. Today I started PT for my shoulder/neck area, which has caught up with me. I have various areas of pain and tightness and she suggested looking into AID to help calm my symptoms a bit.