From avid carnivore to vegan (or somewhere in between)?

Options
2

Replies

  • mariomicro
    mariomicro Posts: 74 Member
    edited February 2021
    Options
    callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »
    mariomicro wrote: »
    The major problem I have with a vegan diet is that it doesn't really give you enough calories for the day, unless you make it up with grains and starches, which are much less healthy than meat. Most metabolic diseases are a consequence of excess sugars, grains and starch consumption, rather than meat.

    Cite your source.
    Happy to help.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/srep16919
    Our findings suggest that Carb-S could contribute to the pathogenesis of metabolic disorders. Carbohydrate intake decreased HDL-C and increased TG levels. A human clinical trial reported that participants consuming high carbohydrate diets had lower HDL-C and higher TG and TC levels. Low carbohydrate intake has the opposite effects because high fat diets tend to lower serum TG and LDL-C, increase HDL-C23 and promote weight loss.

    [...]

    Refined grains and tubers have high GI and GL inducing pathoglycemia and insulin resistance, which are risk factors for hyperlipidemia through fat deposition and de novo lipogenesis. Our findings revealed that the high GI group had significantly higher risks of hyperlipidemia and MetS. No significant associations were obtained between the medium or low GI groups and hyperlipidemia or MetS. High GI diets increase body fat mass and liver fat by regulating the expression of enzymes involved in lipogenesis.
  • saintor1
    saintor1 Posts: 376 Member
    edited February 2021
    Options
    mariomicro wrote: »
    The major problem I have with a vegan diet is that it doesn't really give you enough calories for the day, unless you make it up with grains and starches, which are much less healthy than meat. Most metabolic diseases are a consequence of excess sugars, grains and starch consumption, rather than meat.

    You made a broad generalization and your source seems to refer to refined grains, not all of them.

    'Natural' carbs are fine. One of the most fit 'population' in the world are the Sherpas in the Himalayans; they are relying heavily on carbs, even processed. I found this short video interesting @ 6:45

    https://youtu.be/zXHgbUjPhOU?t=412

    For my part, I eat two meat-based meals a week and only 3-4oz portion.

    I am a fan of Michael Greger's Youtube channel. It drastically change my approach to nutrition (since 2015), even if I don't have a plant-based diet only.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    I’m learning a lot from the replies. Thank you all. I guess I could start slowly and like some of you mentioned, the diet - in itself - is not the only thing that matters.

    I lost almost 30 pounds last year - no diet changes. I get regular exercise and have no outstanding negative health indicators. My only “complaint” is I feel a bit bloated at times. Nothing big. Maybe this helps - if I told you my usual eating style was:

    Breakfast - eggs with veggies, Ezekiel bread and always a serving size of bacon or sausage

    Lunch - deli meat sandwich (either boars head ham, turkey, salami, sopresata, roast beef with a slice of cheese)

    Dinner - along with salad, there will always be (in this order) a chicken, steak, or pork or fish (once a week- if that) dish.

    Would you conclude this is ok as long as I’m doing what I’m doing above re: maintaining my weight and exercise? Heading for trouble? Would feel better, lighter - even if I don’t know it now - if I ate less meat?

    Also just felt my reaching my weight loss goals were just part of my journey and that I could focus on more healthy eating. Hope this is clearer!

    If your main vegetables are with your eggs at breakfast and a salad at dinner (not sure if your dinner entree also includes vegetables), that might be an area to focus on. Of course, I have no idea how big those servings are.

    In terms of your weight, what you're doing sounds like it is working. Nutritionally, it looks like you might have an opportunity to get some more fruits and vegetables. Some people find that the water and fiber in those foods helps with bloating (of course, you might have a completely different root cause for yours).

    Some suggestions: Add some berries, melon, or citrus fruit to breakfast or lunch. Add some vegetables like carrots or bell pepper (or whatever you like) to your sandwich at lunch. If you're not already doing it, look for some vegetable-rich recipes for your dinner. Maybe look for ways to incorporate legumes into your eating. Even many non-vegans like foods like lentil soup with sausage, chili with meat and beans, Brazilian-style black bean soup, etc.

    I have no idea how you would feel with a different diet, but I know anecdotally that many people do report feeling better and lighter when they eat more fruit and vegetables (even if they are still regularly eating meat).

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,912 Member
    Options
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    I’m learning a lot from the replies. Thank you all. I guess I could start slowly and like some of you mentioned, the diet - in itself - is not the only thing that matters.

    I lost almost 30 pounds last year - no diet changes. I get regular exercise and have no outstanding negative health indicators. My only “complaint” is I feel a bit bloated at times. Nothing big. Maybe this helps - if I told you my usual eating style was:

    Breakfast - eggs with veggies, Ezekiel bread and always a serving size of bacon or sausage

    Lunch - deli meat sandwich (either boars head ham, turkey, salami, sopresata, roast beef with a slice of cheese)

    Dinner - along with salad, there will always be (in this order) a chicken, steak, or pork or fish (once a week- if that) dish.

    Would you conclude this is ok as long as I’m doing what I’m doing above re: maintaining my weight and exercise? Heading for trouble? Would feel better, lighter - even if I don’t know it now - if I ate less meat?

    Also just felt my reaching my weight loss goals were just part of my journey and that I could focus on more healthy eating. Hope this is clearer!

    How much veggies with eggs? I like to have a higher egg to veggie ratio - at most I'd have 20 g onion and 20 g pepper with 2 eggs, so not a lot. If I'm also having something like spinach I'd reduce the onion and pepper.

    How big a salad? My OH likes a smaller salad than I do, and my mother likes a bigger one.

    I suggest you add more variety.
    • I eat cruciferous vegetables regularly - cauliflower (very versatile!), broccoli, kale, Brussels sprouts, etc.
    • My mom is big on having "orange" vegetables - butternut squash, carrots, not sure if she counts sweet potatoes, but I do. I just love them roasted with a variety of spices. Nom nom nom.
    • I used to eat green beans only in season (we grow them, and it can be challenging to keep up with them) but this winter I've made them a staple in the rotation.

    My brother jokes that at dinner Mom has seven vegetables with a tiny piece of chicken, which is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. (He's counting starchy vegetables as vegetables.)
  • hesn92
    hesn92 Posts: 5,967 Member
    edited February 2021
    Options
    I am vegan now, however I did not go vegan overnight. I went more of a transition approach, starting with swaps and my lunch/snacks, and eating our "regular food" for dinner. My husband still eats meat, so nowadays dinner is more complicated, but worth it to me.

    Being vegan doesn't really guarantee a healthy diet, there is plenty of vegan "junk food" and I think a lot of animal products can be good for you.

    I do it for the animals mostly, also the environment, but I think a plant based diet is generally healthy, anyway. You can look into the health benefits, but be aware there is a lot of fear mongering out there as well.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,221 Member
    Options
    An afterthought/aside:

    If you plan to occasionally eat meat in future (holidays, say, or when dining in others' homes), I'd strongly, strongly encourage you to keep some meat in routine life, maybe some every couple of weeks, varying types (fish/seafood, fowl, red meat, etc. - whatever type(s) you might like to eat occasionally).

    As a long-term vegetarian, sometimes the way I discover I accidentally ate a small amount of something with a meat ingredient (like a casserole with a canned soup that's broth based, impossible to see, often not possible to taste) . . . is digestive distress. Yeah, it's pretty mild distress, but it's noticeable and unpleasant. I can't even imagine what it would be like if I ate a steak all of a sudden, or a serving of turkey and gravy, or something like that.

    This may not happen for everyone (dunno), but I'm quite certain I'm not being imaginative (like I said, the distress *precedes* the discovery of the meaty ingredient, usually). Also, there's sound science that omnivores have a differently-adapted gut microbiome from fully plant-based eaters . . . not necessarily a better or worse microbiome, but specialized to work well and provide good digestion/use of the person's common diet.
  • CeeBeeSlim
    CeeBeeSlim Posts: 1,266 Member
    Options
    @AnnPT77 - thanks for the tip. I would have never of that.

    @kshama2001 - I add zucchini, green onions, peppers and spinach to one jumbo egg. I could certainly add more fruit and veggies throughout the day. I read something where I could treat more as a garnish - that could help.

    For those or you who gave up all or some meat - how long did it take before you felt different - if at all - and in what ways?

    If I can make it past midnight without snacking on a slim Jim - it’ll be a meat-free day! 👏
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    Options
    As a diabetic, I can say that being vegan can be tricky for diabetics because of all the carbs. Vegan protein sources are typically about half carbs. I do have vegan diabetic friends who manage their blood glucose well, but it’s a way of eating that takes some thought, and not automatically healthier for diabetics.

    Why not start simple, eat less processed meat less often and substitute other meats? One thing about processed meat is it’s typically not a great protein source as meat goes - tends to be high in saturated fat. You can get a lot of fulfillment, at least I can, by eating lean steak, pork roast (very low calorie and a large one makes a week of sandwiches), roast chicken, and fish. Fatty fish in particular is recommended for diabetics and people with high cholesterol. Salmon of course, but also fish that westerners don’t eat as often such as eel and mackerel, and even sardines!
  • mariomicro
    mariomicro Posts: 74 Member
    Options
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    As a diabetic, I can say that being vegan can be tricky for diabetics because of all the carbs. Vegan protein sources are typically about half carbs. I do have vegan diabetic friends who manage their blood glucose well, but it’s a way of eating that takes some thought, and not automatically healthier for diabetics.

    n=1 experience here. I have a British Asian friend of mine who is t2 diabetic and has become a vegan, not for religious reasons but because his GP convinced him it would be better for him. He has been eating at a caloric deficit for years. His diet is basically porridge, fruit and rice, which, according to mainstream medical science, is supposed to be super healthy, because it's high carb and low fat and protein. Well, he is still T2 diabetic and his insulin resistance has increased, so are all his markers deteriorating and will have eye surgery because he is losing his eyesight.
  • Athijade
    Athijade Posts: 3,247 Member
    Options
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    I’m learning a lot from the replies. Thank you all. I guess I could start slowly and like some of you mentioned, the diet - in itself - is not the only thing that matters.

    I lost almost 30 pounds last year - no diet changes. I get regular exercise and have no outstanding negative health indicators. My only “complaint” is I feel a bit bloated at times. Nothing big. Maybe this helps - if I told you my usual eating style was:

    Breakfast - eggs with veggies, Ezekiel bread and always a serving size of bacon or sausage

    Lunch - deli meat sandwich (either boars head ham, turkey, salami, sopresata, roast beef with a slice of cheese)

    Dinner - along with salad, there will always be (in this order) a chicken, steak, or pork or fish (once a week- if that) dish.

    Would you conclude this is ok as long as I’m doing what I’m doing above re: maintaining my weight and exercise? Heading for trouble? Would feel better, lighter - even if I don’t know it now - if I ate less meat?

    Also just felt my reaching my weight loss goals were just part of my journey and that I could focus on more healthy eating. Hope this is clearer!

    So to start with, I will never be vegetarian or vegan. That is due to multiple health issues that restrict what I can eat including a soy allergy, interstitial cystitis, and most likely IBS or some other digestive problem. Meat is one of the things I can eat with little to no problem as long as it is not too fatty.

    That said, I have been focusing on increasing the amount of fruits and vegetables I have along with cutting back on the amount of meat I eat. Just for better overall health.

    I think for what you have shown us, there is room to add more vegetables and fruit without even giving up the meat if you don't want to. Sometimes focusing on what you can ADD is better then cutting something you enjoy.

    Breakfast - I saw your reply on this where it is one egg with multiple veggies. That is a great start! I would switch to chicken sausage (I personally love the stuff) if you want to keep the meat in there, but otherwise I would most likely drop it for some avocado or even a piece of fruit. I rarely eat meat at breakfast, though I do eat a lot of eggs.

    Lunch - A lot of lunch options would also depend on what you have access to or where you are come lunch time. If you stuck with the sandwiches, which I think are fine honestly, I would aim to add some veggies to them. I love lettuce, spinach, cucumber, or tomatoes on my sandwiches. You could even just do a veggie sandwich if you want to drop the meat. One of my favorite sandwiches is a chickpea salad or a tuna salad that is loaded with veggies.

    I would serve said sandwich with either some raw veggies like carrots, bell pepper, or cherry tomatoes with a dip of some sort (hummus for additional fat and protein is great), a small salad, some fruit, or some yogurt with fruit.

    If you can have other options, a veggie pasta or soup would also work great.

    Dinner - I don't know how big your salad is or what is in it, but I would make it the focus of the meal with lots of different veggies, then maybe use the protein as a topping to it. Or, keep it a side salad, have your protein, but then also add in additional vegetables as a side.
  • hesn92
    hesn92 Posts: 5,967 Member
    Options
    MikePfirrman wrote: »
    My wife is a total meat and potatoes girl. But I do the cooking and most of the meal planning. I try to plan at least two or three vegan meals a week and one vegetarian. She usually ends up whining and complaining when she sees what's for dinner and then, as she eats it, grumbles begrudgingly that it's pretty good or really good.

    Last week, for instance, I made stuffed green peppers. Instead of ground turkey, I used dark red pinto beans, black beans, roasted corn, tomato paste blended with spicy canned tomatoes and a just a couple of dates, onions, fresh garlic and some brown basmati rice. Put a cashew crema on top (with some lime juice, cilantro and cumin). She loved it. Complained the entire time I was making it but ended up saying, "I could eat this anytime...".

    Play around and find recipes that you enjoy. Try one new recipe a week. I've found some she loves, others that neither of us care for and would never make again. Find a recipe organizer (I love Copymethat) and start storing healthier recipes for making again and in your rotation.

    my husband would literally just go to mcdonalds if I made a vegan meal for him at home :s He won't even try it lol. He's so stubborn.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 - thanks for the tip. I would have never of that.

    @kshama2001 - I add zucchini, green onions, peppers and spinach to one jumbo egg. I could certainly add more fruit and veggies throughout the day. I read something where I could treat more as a garnish - that could help.

    For those or you who gave up all or some meat - how long did it take before you felt different - if at all - and in what ways?

    If I can make it past midnight without snacking on a slim Jim - it’ll be a meat-free day! 👏

    I never really felt different after giving up meat.

    I do notice that if my vegetable consumption goes lower than usual (say, for example, I'm travelling for work), I do feel better once I get back on my "normal" eating pattern. I don't know if this is an actual thing or just psychological, but it feels real.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Options
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    For those or you who gave up all or some meat - how long did it take before you felt different - if at all - and in what ways?

    If I can make it past midnight without snacking on a slim Jim - it’ll be a meat-free day! 👏

    I was a vegetarian for a while in my 20s, but didn't eat particularly well as a time (I had a stressful job and little time and hadn't yet gotten comfortable cooking without it taking forever beyond basic stuff like pasta and rice and beans, and although I did eat a decent amount of veg, I probably was low on protein, and I'd do things like grab a bagel for breakfast in the morning vs eating something more balanced). So that's not a good example.

    Since then I have gone either vegetarian or 100% plant based for Lent most years, and sometimes for a month as an experiment, and I have eaten healthfully at those times, but do not feel different than when I am eating a healthful diet that includes meat.

    The main thing I struggle with eating that way is that I don't think it's unethical to eat meat (although I have issues with some ways in which animals are commonly treated in factory farming, and I think eating LESS meat is better for the environment), so the fact I miss meat and don't see any personal benefit keeps me coming back. I do think it's pretty easy to cut down on meat, and to include meat-free or plant-based days, but I agree with those saying that for health it's really more important to focus on overall nutrition. I suspect that the reason people who eat vegetarian or vegan tend to also do better on some health markers is that on average people choosing those lifestyles are more health-conscious, and also eat more vegetables on average (and they have to be more thoughtful about eating food that is just around, as they need to find out if it's vegan or vegetarian).
  • Emheia
    Emheia Posts: 24 Member
    Options
    You can absolutely eat some meat - and anything else you love.

    There is no rule that says you have to 100% commit to a specific diet (unless advised by your doctor).
    I personally LOVE having vegan or vegetarian days/weeks, just because it exposes me to a different type of food than I might normally make otherwise. But you bet I'm still going to enjoy a steak here and there.
    Meat isn't "bad" for you, it just shouldn't be the primary source of your diet.

    You can explore vegan type diets by choosing not to eat meat for certain days, or even just meals. That alone will make an impact on your health and the environment. It doesn't need to be 100%.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited February 2021
    Options
    mariomicro wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    As a diabetic, I can say that being vegan can be tricky for diabetics because of all the carbs. Vegan protein sources are typically about half carbs. I do have vegan diabetic friends who manage their blood glucose well, but it’s a way of eating that takes some thought, and not automatically healthier for diabetics.

    n=1 experience here. I have a British Asian friend of mine who is t2 diabetic and has become a vegan, not for religious reasons but because his GP convinced him it would be better for him. He has been eating at a caloric deficit for years. His diet is basically porridge, fruit and rice, which, according to mainstream medical science, is supposed to be super healthy, because it's high carb and low fat and protein. Well, he is still T2 diabetic and his insulin resistance has increased, so are all his markers deteriorating and will have eye surgery because he is losing his eyesight.

    Following up what jane said, there have been WFPB interventions with T2D that have shown rapid success. However, obviously that doesn't mean eating only oatmeal, fruit, and rice, which absolutely NO ONE would say is a healthy diet on their own. Instead, people eat a ton of vegetables, some fruit, beans and lentils, whole grains, and usually nuts and seeds. Meals are typically some combination of vegetables, beans/lentils, and whole grains, added fat is often avoided, especially if people are in weight loss mode, and fat is instead sourced from avocados and nuts and seeds and perhaps coconut.

    When I eat 100% plant based (I don't do WFPB at those times, but use some of the principles--however, I don't avoid olive oil at all, and also will use avocado and coconut oil, soy milk, tofu, and probably include more nuts and seeds, and I do still include white pasta, although the various bean-based pastas would be included too, and help to hit protein numbers if that's a concern). One big difference from how your friend eats is that it tends to be very high in fiber, to include far more protein (seems he isn't really getting more than the tiniest bit), and of course high in vegetables. For example:

    Breakfast might be oats flavored with some nuts and seeds and maybe soy milk plus some berries or else a smoothie with strawberries, winter squash, spinach, avocado, nuts or nutbutter, and silken tofu or white beans for protein. I also like savory oats with vegetables mixed in, although I tend to prefer that with an egg too so do it less then eating plant-based.

    Lunch might be a lentil stew with a salad on the side.

    Dinner would be something more elaborate, like a vegan version of an African peanut stew or else a stir fry with tofu and lots of veg with brown rice or some dish involving black beans, rice, and lots of greens, or perhaps a giant salad with some chickpeas and seeds on it and a mix of cooked veg along with the raw ones. The options are endless (and many cookbooks from areas of the world where meat is less common can be helpful). I'd likely have a piece of fruit as dessert.

Categories