Squat Myths

Speakeasy76

I don't know if this is okay to post this, but wanted to share this video from Redefining Strength re: squat myths. I'm sure a lot of you already know this, but I still find it helpful. Someone was posting about squat depth the other day, so maybe they'd find it useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd6nGdO8jE4&feature=youtu.be

ninerbuff

So true. I have clients that can't barbell back squat, but do goblets and sit squats with dumbbells just fine.

Knees past toes myth: One thing I ask people is when they climb stairs, watch how their knees pass over their toes. It's a natural movement for many. So many new trainers and group cardio instructors emphasize not letting knees go past toes all the time when in truth it's fine for people that can do it.

And it's so true about structure of the person. People that have longer bones put more stress on their joints due to the higher tension. So there has to be adjustments made so the work is still effective but safe for them.

Good video.


A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

CeeBeeSlim

This is very helpful. Thanks for sharing. What always confused me are “squat variations”. When I concluded (maybe wrongly) that squats were hurting my lower back around the si joints - I researched “squat alternatives” and still got “squats” - box squats, front squats, goblet squats. Is it possible that my body is just not built for ANY squats at all?

I think the problem may have been a trainer who coached me to think of “flirting” when doing a squat - which to her meant sticking your butt out before moving down - so I’d start my squat in an exaggerated anterior pelvic tilt. I’m thinking this was wrong?

cwolfman13

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

This is very helpful. Thanks for sharing. What always confused me are “squat variations”. When I concluded (maybe wrongly) that squats were hurting my lower back around the si joints - I researched “squat alternatives” and still got “squats” - box squats, front squats, goblet squats. Is it possible that my body is just not built for ANY squats at all?

I think the problem may have been a trainer who coached me to think of “flirting” when doing a squat - which to her meant sticking your butt out before moving down - so I’d start my squat in an exaggerated anterior pelvic tilt. I’m thinking this was wrong?

Not sure about the butt thing...never heard of that. But yeah, lower back pain while squatting is in general a symptom of bad form. A lot of people who are new to squatting, or trying to squat too much weight will pivot and lean forwards at the waist when they're squatting down instead of keeping the back neutral which puts most of the pressure from the weight on your lower back rather than your quads and glutes.

Speakeasy76

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

This is very helpful. Thanks for sharing. What always confused me are “squat variations”. When I concluded (maybe wrongly) that squats were hurting my lower back around the si joints - I researched “squat alternatives” and still got “squats” - box squats, front squats, goblet squats. Is it possible that my body is just not built for ANY squats at all?

I think the problem may have been a trainer who coached me to think of “flirting” when doing a squat - which to her meant sticking your butt out before moving down - so I’d start my squat in an exaggerated anterior pelvic tilt. I’m thinking this was wrong?

I don't know about your anatomy or what your low back pain history is, but I know for me, I have had a lot of low back and SI joint problems, even before I started squatting. Even had corticosteriod shots in the SI joints at age 37 (pretty much worthless, although those joints don't bother me so much now). I already have an exaggerated anterior pelvic in standing and am STILL working on this, and I know this was at least part of the problem (and still is) for my low back pain. If I were to go into an exaggerated anterior pelvic tilt for me, this causes more back problems. I have to make sure my front core is engaged and not so exaggerated when I start my squat.

For me, goblet and wider/sumo stance squats were (and still are really) more comfortable for my body than barbell back squats. I definitely had to work up to them and really build up my glutes and am still working on ankle mobility/stability, but I do them pain-free now...but I am constantly thinking about all the things I need to do, still!

Chieflrg

cwolfman13 wrote: »

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

This is very helpful. Thanks for sharing. What always confused me are “squat variations”. When I concluded (maybe wrongly) that squats were hurting my lower back around the si joints - I researched “squat alternatives” and still got “squats” - box squats, front squats, goblet squats. Is it possible that my body is just not built for ANY squats at all?

I think the problem may have been a trainer who coached me to think of “flirting” when doing a squat - which to her meant sticking your butt out before moving down - so I’d start my squat in an exaggerated anterior pelvic tilt. I’m thinking this was wrong?

Not sure about the butt thing...never heard of that. But yeah, lower back pain while squatting is in general a symptom of bad form. A lot of people who are new to squatting, or trying to squat too much weight will pivot and lean forwards at the waist when they're squatting down instead of keeping the back neutral which puts most of the pressure from the weight on your lower back rather than your quads and glutes.

No. It's improper load management. I've known hundreds of people with the "bad form" diagnosis with zero back pain and people with "good form" diagnosis with back pain.

Other than trauma, a movement alone doesn't cause pain, it's the load or accumulative stress that evidence suggests does so.

I personally have what nearly every internet/commercial gym trainer expert that regurgitates the "bad form=pain myth" would consider to be horrible form when it comes to squatting as seen in this video and suffer no pain over many years from the movement itself because of good load management.

CeeBeeSlim

@chieflrg - Interesting. If my trainer didn’t show one day, and I agreed to meet with another trainer, that new trainer would - subtly - say something that really meant - “Jane Doe is a great trainer but I watch you and you don’t have to lift so much and kill yourself to get results”. My trainer competed and believed in heavy weight, low reps, 4-6 reps max; but I did see a change in my body. When I met with the other trainer, it was 12-15 reps on all moves, and she was the one who gave me the stick your butt out tip. Until then - I had no pain.

So - is it still possible my possible bad form is anatomical - and I should just lay off squats - all forms?

And is starting a squat - any squat - with an exaggerated APT bad form?

quiksylver296

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

@chieflrg - Interesting. If my trainer didn’t show one day, and I agreed to meet with another trainer, that new trainer would - subtly - say something that really meant - “Jane Doe is a great trainer but I watch you and you don’t have to lift so much and kill yourself to get results”. My trainer competed and believed in heavy weight, low reps, 4-6 reps max; but I did see a change in my body. When I met with the other trainer, it was 12-15 reps on all moves, and she was the one who gave me the stick your butt out tip. Until then - I had no pain.

So - is it still possible my possible bad form is anatomical - and I should just lay off squats - all forms?

And is starting a squat - any squat - with an exaggerated APT bad form?

"Stick out your butt" sounds like the exact opposite of the cue I was given. DISCLAIMER - I am not a trainer, and have no physiological type education.

The cue I was given was to "make the ugly butt" which means to contract your glutes, tighten them up/suck them in, before squatting.

Chieflrg

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

@chieflrg - Interesting. If my trainer didn’t show one day, and I agreed to meet with another trainer, that new trainer would - subtly - say something that really meant - “Jane Doe is a great trainer but I watch you and you don’t have to lift so much and kill yourself to get results”. My trainer competed and believed in heavy weight, low reps, 4-6 reps max; but I did see a change in my body. When I met with the other trainer, it was 12-15 reps on all moves, and she was the one who gave me the stick your butt out tip. Until then - I had no pain.

So - is it still possible my possible bad form is anatomical - and I should just lay off squats - all forms?

And is starting a squat - any squat - with an exaggerated APT bad form?

Nope. You can squat or not squat. Unless you are competing we can open our exercise selection up if a person perfers not to. If you want to squat we need to find the proper load and variations within your programming.

Bad form is subjective and there isn't evidence that proves it exists so no.

We try to start with neutral spine but the main focus is to remove flexion and brace properly and from there things tend to fall into place.

4-6 rep range for 80% of your lifts while training for a competition is a decent strategy. For 100% of all lifts? Maybe a 6 weeks out. A good program will include a variety of rep ranges and appropriate intensities. So I believe a bit of each of the two trainers.

Feel free to post ypyr squat in my "form check" thread and I'll be happy to take a look.

Chieflrg

quiksylver296 wrote: »

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

@chieflrg - Interesting. If my trainer didn’t show one day, and I agreed to meet with another trainer, that new trainer would - subtly - say something that really meant - “Jane Doe is a great trainer but I watch you and you don’t have to lift so much and kill yourself to get results”. My trainer competed and believed in heavy weight, low reps, 4-6 reps max; but I did see a change in my body. When I met with the other trainer, it was 12-15 reps on all moves, and she was the one who gave me the stick your butt out tip. Until then - I had no pain.

So - is it still possible my possible bad form is anatomical - and I should just lay off squats - all forms?

And is starting a squat - any squat - with an exaggerated APT bad form?

"Stick out your butt" sounds like the exact opposite of the cue I was given. DISCLAIMER - I am not a trainer, and have no physiological type education.

The cue I was given was to "make the ugly butt" which means to contract your glutes, tighten them up/suck them in, before squatting.

Maybe for you Tam, but honestly that cue isn't for most lifters as they will over tuck and it puts them in a bad starting position technique wise.

You ever seen someone tuck right before dropping? It throws off the balance and timing and is something I will nip early on.

Once again the cue could be proper for you as cues are subjective to the individual to do get a result. I use 5-6 different cues on 5-6 individuals sometimes to achieve the same result. It kinda how a person is wired or perhaps how they are ingrained in their head how to do something.

quiksylver296

Chieflrg wrote: »

quiksylver296 wrote: »

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

@chieflrg - Interesting. If my trainer didn’t show one day, and I agreed to meet with another trainer, that new trainer would - subtly - say something that really meant - “Jane Doe is a great trainer but I watch you and you don’t have to lift so much and kill yourself to get results”. My trainer competed and believed in heavy weight, low reps, 4-6 reps max; but I did see a change in my body. When I met with the other trainer, it was 12-15 reps on all moves, and she was the one who gave me the stick your butt out tip. Until then - I had no pain.

So - is it still possible my possible bad form is anatomical - and I should just lay off squats - all forms?

And is starting a squat - any squat - with an exaggerated APT bad form?

"Stick out your butt" sounds like the exact opposite of the cue I was given. DISCLAIMER - I am not a trainer, and have no physiological type education.

The cue I was given was to "make the ugly butt" which means to contract your glutes, tighten them up/suck them in, before squatting.

Maybe for you Tam, but honestly that cue isn't for most lifters as they will over tuck and it puts them in a bad starting position technique wise.

You ever seen someone tuck right before dropping? It throws off the balance and timing and is something I will nip early on.

Once again the cue could be proper for you as cues are subjective to the individual to do get a result. I use 5-6 different cues on 5-6 individuals sometimes to achieve the same result. It kinda how a person is wired or perhaps how they are ingrained in their head how to do something.

Yeah, I don’t move my hips/bones/whatever, just activate my glutes. This is why I posted the disclaimer. :laugh: