New to lifting, super weak, calorie deficit, early plateau

75in2013

Hi all,

I'm 47, male, 175cm (5'7). I have never lifted weights before. And I'm super weak.

I started lifting 2 months ago. But I'm also on a caloric deficit because I need to loose weight (BF>29%, BMI>31). I asked about this here on the forums (Strength Training on a calorie deficit?) and everybody basically confirmed that I should start lifting right away.

I'm doing Starting Strength and started with these 5RM values: Squat 40kg (88lbs), Bench 30kg (66lbs), Deadlift 50kg (110lbs). For the first weeks it went pretty well. But now it seems I'm alredy at a plateau. At least with the Squat at 60kg (132lbs). I can still do the sets, but my form is failing.

Should I still try to progressive load the exercises?

Or should I accept that I probably won't build much strength on a calorie deficit. (Side note: I'm still eating ~140g protein in per day). But I could up my volume and keep good form?

I want to be down to at least a BMI 27 and BF% of ~15% before I eat at a calorie surplus.


PS. I'm still doing high bar squats because my shoulder mobility doesn't allow me yet to do low bar. That's my goal though.

sijomial

When you are starting out gaining strength should be rapid which is why beginner programs can have a fast and linear increase in weights.
A lot of that initial strength gain is simply using your existing muscles better - recruit more of the fibres, fire the muscles harder.
But after a while you will tap that out and more advanced programming might be the route to go. Two months might be unusually quick but just a few months isn't unusual.

Can you clarify your calorie deficit by your current rate of weight loss? (There's a trade off between losing quickly and performing well in the gym.)

"My form is failing" - do you mean you are struggling to complete the last rep(s)?

"Should I still try to progressive load the exercises?" - Well yes that is the idea, but there's different kinds of progression. You might also find that you simply respond better to a different rep range as that's quite personal.

75in2013

sijomial wrote: »

Can you clarify your calorie deficit by your current rate of weight loss? (There's a trade off between losing quickly and performing well in the gym.)

My maintenance calories is ~2190kcal. I aim for a .5kg loss/week. So my calorie goal is 1640 (all calculated by mfp). I try to eat back my training calories but I'm not sure how much that should be for weight training.

Sometimes I lost much more weight per week then what I was aiming for. I'm still trying to figure out how much I can eat exactly per week. Also my calorie goal changes with the weight loss.

I also struggle a little bit with eating enough carbs. Everytime I check my diary in the end I'm over on fat & protein and under on carbs. I'm not actively trying to eat less carbs!

sijomial wrote: »

"My form is failing" - do you mean you are struggling to complete the last rep(s)?

I film myself and use an app (WL analysis). The app tracks the bar path and I can see that during the working sets the bar path is not straight anymore. So instead of a nice "I" (up and down) i get a "D" (bar path looks like a bow).

I don't even need to film it. I can feel that it's not proper form anymore.

sijomial wrote: »

"Should I still try to progressive load the exercises?" - Well yes that is the idea, but there's different kinds of progression. You might also find that you simply respond better to a different rep range as that's quite personal.

I saw the suggestion in a YT video that when you reach a strength plateau you could go down with the weights (let's say to 80%) and perform more reps per set. Basically 11-12 or til exhaustion. I don't remember exactly. It said something that you need to get in volume to grow the muscle, so that later you can gain strength. Maybe I'm quoting this completely wrong.

sijomial

Yes the calorie estimates are just a starting point from which you can adjust to achieve the desired rate of loss, bigger deficits aren't helpful to your training and recovery.

You can log your lifting in the strength training category in the cardiovascular part of the diary for a very reasonable estimate. Log entire duration of your lifting session.

Doesn't Starting Strength give you deload advice for when lifts stall?
Although I wouldn't do that more than once before moving on to new programming, I'd follow that advice more than what sounds like fairly random YouTube advice (there's a whole mix of good and terrible advice on YT!), I'd be wary of advice that promotes pushing to exhaustion without at the very least some context.

Yes (appropriate intensity) volume is a driver of progress of both strength and hypertrophy, which is one of the drawbacks of beginner programs done for too long.

cupcakesandproteinshakes

I’d move on from SS. I couldn’t add weight to the bar after about 12 weeks on a similar programme. You need a different approach to linear progression after a while.
Check out the thread on the gaining weight and body building forum. There’s a whole bunch of programmes.

75in2013

sijomial wrote: »

You can log your lifting in the strength training category in the cardiovascular part of the diary for a very reasonable estimate. Log entire duration of your lifting session.

Thanks! I'll try that out!

sijomial wrote: »

Doesn't Starting Strength give you deload advice for when lifts stall?

Yes. Starting strength gives deload advice. I have to read that section again.

Besides advice on my programme I was wondering if it this situation is to be expected on a calorie deficit and my age? My thoughts more or less: Maybe I can only expect to build strength once I finished my diet and I start eating on a surplus again? Maybe staying at my current strength level during my weight loss is already best case scenario?

cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »

Check out the thread on the gaining weight and body building forum. There’s a whole bunch of programmes.

Thanks! Will look for it.

I wasnt expecting to get here so soon. And I really like SS for its focus on squat, benchpress, deadlift etc. I would really like to stay with these compound movements.

ninerbuff

Deload on your lifts. During that time, work on your form and learn to "feel" how muscles contract so you know how to recruit them better as the weight starts to progress again.
And it's human to reach a strength barrier. NO ONE keeps increasing and increasing regularly. The increments could be very small once you're at maximum.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

75in2013

Thanks!

ninerbuff wrote: »

Deload on your lifts. During that time, work on your form and learn to "feel" how muscles contract so you know how to recruit them better as the weight starts to progress again.

I assume I only deload the lifts where I'm struggling, no? For me that would be Squat and Overhead Press. Deadlift and Bench press are still fine. Or do I deload all lifts?

ninerbuff wrote: »

And it's human to reach a strength barrier. NO ONE keeps increasing and increasing regularly. The increments could be very small once you're at maximum.

I understand that. I just wasn't expecting to hit this barrier so soon. I'm still very weak.

DancingMoosie

If you know what your maintenance calories are, you could try eating that much and not log strength training and see what happens... especially since you are losing at a faster rate than planned. Fill in the extra calories with carbs.

claireychn074

Weakness is subjective. It might just be that you need more rest / longer rest periods, different number of reps as others have said or - in a different direction - you might not have optimal form. Lifting with poor form can be exhausting (I know that as I’m a slow steady learner and not a natural athlete). There are some awesome lifters on here who could help with form as you’ve mentioned that ie yes it might be that low bar helps you when you can do it, but it might be that you need a narrower stance, wider stance, more of an upright oly squat, or more of a powerlifting squat..... lots of variations which can affect how much you can lift!

I’m not an expert on deloads as I just do what my coach tells me, and whinge when I have to deload!

sijomial

"Besides advice on my programme I was wondering if it this situation is to be expected on a calorie deficit and my age? My thoughts more or less: Maybe I can only expect to build strength once I finished my diet and I start eating on a surplus again? Maybe staying at my current strength level during my weight loss is already best case scenario?"

Although there are common themes (e.g. bigger the deficit the harder things are) your personal response to defcit and training is just that - personal.
Your quickest rate of progress will be when you are starting out and that tapers off is another truism.

I'm quite insensitive to moderate deficits while training (my wife would say I'm generally quite insensitive!).
I respond well to a bigger volume than many people and higher reps than many use for strength focussed training.
But it's taken time and experimentation to find that. Not everyone responds the same.
The age question makes me smile a bit as I'm 61. With last year's gym open/close/open/close/relectant home training merry-go-round I found still respond well and quickly regained lost strength and size.


"And I really like SS for its focus on squat, benchpress, deadlift etc. I would really like to stay with these compound movements."
To me that's the big benefit of beginner programs to build the foundation with compound lifts but they aren't unique to beginner programs. Have a look through the list suggested by @cupcakesandproteinshakes and you will find many programs built around those big lifts.

Chieflrg

Starting strength isn't made to be fam in a deficit.

1. There isn't load management or auto regulation of any kind.
2. It is only useful for 2-3 months for most people not in a deficit.
3. It is more a strength building than a hypertrophy response.

When we are losing weight I would be more focused on a hypertrophy response to retain muscle.

You did nothing wrong but I would move onto more advanced programing that has auto regulation & prop at load management and I wouldn't be surprised if your number climbed.

75in2013

Thanks everybody for your great responses! You gave me a lot of food for thought!

DancingMoosie wrote: »

If you know what your maintenance calories are, you could try eating that much and not log strength training and see what happens... especially since you are losing at a faster rate than planned. Fill in the extra calories with carbs.

I have started uping my calories ~two weeks ago to get closer to my .5kg goal. I'll see how to get more carbs in.

claireychn074 wrote: »

There are some awesome lifters on here who could help with form as you’ve mentioned that ie yes it might be that low bar helps you when you can do it, but it might be that you need a narrower stance, wider stance, more of an upright oly squat, or more of a powerlifting squat..... lots of variations which can affect how much you can lift!

Currently I can't do a proper low bar squat due to shoulder mobility issues. But I'm working on it. And it's getting a little bit better. I'll check out what other variations I can try out.

sijomial wrote: »

The age question makes me smile a bit as I'm 61.

How long have you been lifting?

Chieflrg wrote: »

You did nothing wrong but I would move onto more advanced programing that has auto regulation & prop at load management and I wouldn't be surprised if your number climbed.

sijomial wrote: »

Have a look through the list suggested by @cupcakesandproteinshakes and you will find many programs built around those big lifts.

I'll definitely look into other programs!

sijomial

75in2013 wrote: »

How long have you been lifting?

Off and on for since about 1974, partly to try to keep up with a 5 years older brother.
Partly because there was a lot of bullying at my school and bullies don't pick on strong people, well they don't try it twice anyway!
Still hugely enjoy it and really missing the gym right now.

claireychn074

There’s nothing wrong with low bar squats but you don’t have to do them. I’m do high bar and aim for an upright stance as I do the Olympic lifts, so if your shoulder mobility is hampering you, don’t feel you have to push through any pain to get to low bar. You can also experiment (with low weight) on the width of your grip. I counter-intuitively grip narrow as I find better stability then a wide grip. My husband finds that freaky but it’s comfortable for me. 😀