Balanced Diet vs Keto
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wunderkindking wrote: »I. I am pretty confident that failure to maintain comes from psychology rather than physiology. People go too hard, change too many things, see weight loss as the goal and objective in and of itself. Then, yeah, they snap back to their comfort zone either because it's too hard to stay there or they went so fast and hard that no meaningful psychological/habitual changes occurred.
100% this.2 -
wunderkindking wrote: »I. I am pretty confident that failure to maintain comes from psychology rather than physiology. People go too hard, change too many things, see weight loss as the goal and objective in and of itself. Then, yeah, they snap back to their comfort zone either because it's too hard to stay there or they went so fast and hard that no meaningful psychological/habitual changes occurred.
100% this.
Signaling hormones like ghrelin and leptin and also dopamine do matter. Food manufacturers know these well. IMO0 -
So, educate the uneducated. How low must carb percentage be to be considered a low carb diet.
Also, if OP was in ketosis for a week, didn’t he, practically speaking, actually lose more fat the week he didn’t eat keto and more water the week he was on keto? I don’t know. Never studied or tried keto, just read a little about it in these forums.
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corinasue1143 wrote: »So, educate the uneducated. How low must carb percentage be to be considered a low carb diet.
Also, if OP was in ketosis for a week, didn’t he, practically speaking, actually lose more fat the week he didn’t eat keto and more water the week he was on keto? I don’t know. Never studied or tried keto, just read a little about it in these forums.
The definition of low carb is not carved in stone anywhere, but the generally accepted value for 'lower' carb is > 150 grams a day and 'low' carb is > 100 grams a day.
Keto is generally defined as less than 20 grams a day, but some people (myself included) can maintain ketosis eating any where between 30 and 50 grams a day.3 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis.
I was referencing their initial post where they said when the 40% carbs was eaten, and wasn't thinking they were in ketosis then anyway. Obviously the 10% they wondered about isn't either probably.
Regarding the part I left - Are you aware that under a normal balanced diet with plenty of carbs 85-90% of your daily energy source is fat already - not because of being low carb with ketones or some special fat-adapted mode?
Ketosis not required.
You may want to look up the people that post their resting metabolic tests, or VO2max tests - they almost all show what the energy source was during the resting and even early part of the exercise was - fat.
Just in case you don't believe physiology books.
My reference to main energy source 85-90% of the day is fat requires nothing special for average people.
Then again not a metabolic disease either that keeps insulin and blood sugar elevated.
When I hear keto-advocates use the term fat-adapted as if the body must learn to use it - I know confusion is in the air, further comments sometimes clarify that indeed some normal workings of the body are misunderstood.4 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis.
I was referencing their initial post where they said when the 40% carbs was eaten, and wasn't thinking they were in ketosis then anyway. Obviously the 10% they wondered about isn't either probably.
Regarding the part I left - Are you aware that under a normal balanced diet with plenty of carbs 85-90% of your daily energy source is fat already - not because of being low carb with ketones or some special fat-adapted mode?
Ketosis not required.
You may want to look up the people that post their resting metabolic tests, or VO2max tests - they almost all show what the energy source was during the resting and even early part of the exercise was - fat.
Just in case you don't believe physiology books.
My reference to main energy source 85-90% of the day is fat requires nothing special for average people.
Then again not a metabolic disease either that keeps insulin and blood sugar elevated.
When I hear keto-advocates use the term fat-adapted as if the body must learn to use it - I know confusion is in the air, further comments sometimes clarify that indeed some normal workings of the body are misunderstood.
I'd probably have to see studies where 85-90% of calories from fat is used by the average person, that's just the way I am. It would be interesting to find out where the calories from glucose and fructose go for the average person during this time when they're burning this 85-90% fat. It appears they haven't been burning them too well over the last 40 years, maybe there going into adipose tissue, just a quess.
Fat adapted ketosis is confusing for sure. The US military have been trying to adapt the ketogenic diet, especially navy seals and special forces but also the average soldier as well, but it's difficult because of the dietary requirements. They're using esters and salts right now, but it's going forward. Wonder what the benefits are? Keto for me is not about weight loss, I can do low carb and get a similar result.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis. That isn't going to happen when the OP is using 30% protein and 10% carbs....that's 40% of the foods that are insulinogenic. As soon as the beta cells in the pancreas produce insulin the beta cells in the liver stops producing ketones, so your out of ketosis. That's one of the main reasons the Keto diet adherence is so difficult. Does that mean that ketones aren't being made, no, some will when insulin comes back to baseline or for example first thing in the morning after the nights fast or working out fasted etc. The ketone pathway in the brain bypasses the one for glucose so the brain works fine with ketones and anything that crucially needs glucose will be produced through gluconeogenesis. Anyway, we may be talking a similar thing, right now I'm not quite sure
EDIT: The OP was referencing the other diet and seemed to think 40% was low carb, that's why I commented because 40% isn't low carb.
Show me a single study that shows you can't be fat adapted with 30% protein and 10% carbs. The OP was at 1.3 mg/dl. That is a good blood ketone level. Making blanket statements like that us fundamentally incorrect. Calories, total carbs, exercise, fasting times, weight, height, and gender all have an impact. There are fat adapted bodybuilders at 300g of carbs daily.5 -
chrisalexander851 wrote: »I was pretty happy with the balanced approach and did feel like it is something I could sustain long term. I read and listened to some information about training your body to be “metabolically flexible” and part of that would be doing keto for a while. So, I decided to try it for a month or so. There is no way I could do this forever, but if it helps speed things up a little bit then I could white knuckle it for a month or so every now and then. I think the main thing that is making it work for me is weighing, logging, and counting everything I eat and so I a can control the calorie intake. I will probably need to do that for a long time if not forever or it is really easy for me to overeat.
If you look at long term weight loss success stories and evidence, it has a few commonalities; sustainable diet changes, slower weight loss and some sort of tracking (calories, weight, pictures, measurements) being the major drivers. Its why i am on year 11 of my successful 60 lb weight loss.
Follow a way of eating that you find sustainable. And that can change throughout your weight loss lifecycle. You could start with balance and then change or cycle dietary preferences based on your weight loss stage. I often do this. The first 50 balanced. The last 10 keto. And now i am working on vanity lbs.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis. That isn't going to happen when the OP is using 30% protein and 10% carbs....that's 40% of the foods that are insulinogenic. As soon as the beta cells in the pancreas produce insulin the beta cells in the liver stops producing ketones, so your out of ketosis. That's one of the main reasons the Keto diet adherence is so difficult. Does that mean that ketones aren't being made, no, some will when insulin comes back to baseline or for example first thing in the morning after the nights fast or working out fasted etc. The ketone pathway in the brain bypasses the one for glucose so the brain works fine with ketones and anything that crucially needs glucose will be produced through gluconeogenesis. Anyway, we may be talking a similar thing, right now I'm not quite sure
EDIT: The OP was referencing the other diet and seemed to think 40% was low carb, that's why I commented because 40% isn't low carb.
Show me a single study that shows you can't be fat adapted with 30% protein and 10% carbs. The OP was at 1.3 mg/dl. That is a good blood ketone level. Making blanket statements like that us fundamentally incorrect. Calories, total carbs, exercise, fasting times, weight, height, and gender all have an impact. There are fat adapted bodybuilders at 300g of carbs daily.
Fat adapted in a ketosis sense is not the same using using adipose tissue for energy, but sure someone consuming 300g's of carbs will burn fat as well as glycogen, that's the way the body works. Show me a study where 30% proteins and 10% carbs is in a state of ketosis and has metabolically shifted from burning glucose as it's primary fuel source to fat.
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neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis. That isn't going to happen when the OP is using 30% protein and 10% carbs....that's 40% of the foods that are insulinogenic. As soon as the beta cells in the pancreas produce insulin the beta cells in the liver stops producing ketones, so your out of ketosis. That's one of the main reasons the Keto diet adherence is so difficult. Does that mean that ketones aren't being made, no, some will when insulin comes back to baseline or for example first thing in the morning after the nights fast or working out fasted etc. The ketone pathway in the brain bypasses the one for glucose so the brain works fine with ketones and anything that crucially needs glucose will be produced through gluconeogenesis. Anyway, we may be talking a similar thing, right now I'm not quite sure
EDIT: The OP was referencing the other diet and seemed to think 40% was low carb, that's why I commented because 40% isn't low carb.
Show me a single study that shows you can't be fat adapted with 30% protein and 10% carbs. The OP was at 1.3 mg/dl. That is a good blood ketone level. Making blanket statements like that us fundamentally incorrect. Calories, total carbs, exercise, fasting times, weight, height, and gender all have an impact. There are fat adapted bodybuilders at 300g of carbs daily.
Fat adapted in a ketosis sense is not the same using using adipose tissue for energy, but sure someone consuming 300g's of carbs will burn fat as well as glycogen, that's the way the body works. Show me a study where 30% proteins and 10% carbs is in a state of ketosis and has metabolically shifted from burning glucose as it's primary fuel source to fat.
So essentially you make a blanket statement and can't back it up. Got it.
OP is in a state of ketosis. Maintaining that for in increased time (4-8 weeks) and they will be "fat adapted".2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis. That isn't going to happen when the OP is using 30% protein and 10% carbs....that's 40% of the foods that are insulinogenic. As soon as the beta cells in the pancreas produce insulin the beta cells in the liver stops producing ketones, so your out of ketosis. That's one of the main reasons the Keto diet adherence is so difficult. Does that mean that ketones aren't being made, no, some will when insulin comes back to baseline or for example first thing in the morning after the nights fast or working out fasted etc. The ketone pathway in the brain bypasses the one for glucose so the brain works fine with ketones and anything that crucially needs glucose will be produced through gluconeogenesis. Anyway, we may be talking a similar thing, right now I'm not quite sure
EDIT: The OP was referencing the other diet and seemed to think 40% was low carb, that's why I commented because 40% isn't low carb.
Show me a single study that shows you can't be fat adapted with 30% protein and 10% carbs. The OP was at 1.3 mg/dl. That is a good blood ketone level. Making blanket statements like that us fundamentally incorrect. Calories, total carbs, exercise, fasting times, weight, height, and gender all have an impact. There are fat adapted bodybuilders at 300g of carbs daily.
Fat adapted in a ketosis sense is not the same using using adipose tissue for energy, but sure someone consuming 300g's of carbs will burn fat as well as glycogen, that's the way the body works. Show me a study where 30% proteins and 10% carbs is in a state of ketosis and has metabolically shifted from burning glucose as it's primary fuel source to fat.
So essentially you make a blanket statement and can't back it up. Got it.
OP is in a state of ketosis. Maintaining that for in increased time (4-8 weeks) and they will be "fat adapted".
Everyone will have ketones in their blood, especially when in a deficit. 1.3 is low and that number can be achieved from an overnight fast easily especially in a deficit. I've done the keto diet, not anymore and used a blood ketone meter for 2.5 years and needs to be checked constantly to get an average, a snapshot doesn't mean much. I've had higher levels while just doing low carb as a snapshot, but know I wasn't in the state of ketosis.
It's interesting when this subject comes up that everyone jumps on it trying to discount it like it was a job when in fact if it helps someone achieve their goals, why is there such a problem. Maybe it threatens the CICO people, I really don't know, just an observation. Strange. It's been around forever, there's lots of science especially recently working with the military, and Alzheimer's and other brain dysfunctions. I do cringe myself reading some of these keto posts but I just chalk it up to it's recent popularity and ignorance. Cheers0 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis. That isn't going to happen when the OP is using 30% protein and 10% carbs....that's 40% of the foods that are insulinogenic. As soon as the beta cells in the pancreas produce insulin the beta cells in the liver stops producing ketones, so your out of ketosis. That's one of the main reasons the Keto diet adherence is so difficult. Does that mean that ketones aren't being made, no, some will when insulin comes back to baseline or for example first thing in the morning after the nights fast or working out fasted etc. The ketone pathway in the brain bypasses the one for glucose so the brain works fine with ketones and anything that crucially needs glucose will be produced through gluconeogenesis. Anyway, we may be talking a similar thing, right now I'm not quite sure
EDIT: The OP was referencing the other diet and seemed to think 40% was low carb, that's why I commented because 40% isn't low carb.
Show me a single study that shows you can't be fat adapted with 30% protein and 10% carbs. The OP was at 1.3 mg/dl. That is a good blood ketone level. Making blanket statements like that us fundamentally incorrect. Calories, total carbs, exercise, fasting times, weight, height, and gender all have an impact. There are fat adapted bodybuilders at 300g of carbs daily.
Fat adapted in a ketosis sense is not the same using using adipose tissue for energy, but sure someone consuming 300g's of carbs will burn fat as well as glycogen, that's the way the body works. Show me a study where 30% proteins and 10% carbs is in a state of ketosis and has metabolically shifted from burning glucose as it's primary fuel source to fat.
So essentially you make a blanket statement and can't back it up. Got it.
OP is in a state of ketosis. Maintaining that for in increased time (4-8 weeks) and they will be "fat adapted".
Everyone will have ketones in their blood, especially when in a deficit. 1.3 is low and that number can be achieved from an overnight fast easily especially in a deficit. I've done the keto diet, not anymore and used a blood ketone meter for 2.5 years and needs to be checked constantly to get an average, a snapshot doesn't mean much. I've had higher levels while just doing low carb as a snapshot, but know I wasn't in the state of ketosis.
It's interesting when this subject comes up that everyone jumps on it trying to discount it like it was a job when in fact if it helps someone achieve their goals, why is there such a problem. Maybe it threatens the CICO people, I really don't know, just an observation. Strange. It's been around forever, there's lots of science especially recently working with the military, and Alzheimer's and other brain dysfunctions. I do cringe myself reading some of these keto posts but I just chalk it up to it's recent popularity and ignorance. Cheers
You should probably go back and read my posts. I have and just transitioned back into the Keto diet. I am a proponent of a ketogenic diet for those who tend to get a lot of cravings and require more structured plans. I cringe when i see non sense about high protein on ketogenic dieta being bad. There is zero evidence to support that it will effect ketosis outside of a small transient drop in ketone bodies. The fact is, protein is the most important component to a fat loss diet, especially on a ketogenic diet. Why? Amino acids, especially L-Luecine, drive muscle protein synthesis. MPS drives protein turnover. And muscle sustainment on keto diets is harder than carb based diets. Carbs are protein sparring and performance enhancing. As Peter Attia states, carbs are like rocket fuel.
OP, another thing you have to consider is your goals. Do you have performance goals? Do yoi have goals to gain some muscle and lose fat during your journey? Do you play anaerobic sports?
If you do, and find a balanced diet just as easy to follow, than follow the balanced diet. If you meed a diet that will suppress hunger, keto diets can be effective.... But so can a high volume low fat diet heavy in plants. For me, the former is much more inline with my natural eating patterns and ketosis suppresses my appetite.
The downside to keto is performance in the gym. For me its an automatic 25% reduction in my lifts. But its a sacrifice for hunger suppression.4 -
No actual performance goals yet, but I have started lifting a little with a kettlebells and dumbbells. I haven't noticed any difference there since I started trying keto.
I also haven't noticed much of the hunger suppression either. I think that is because eating so much fat has reduced the actual volume of food I am getting, plus I am not getting near much fiber as I was before.
I am going to try and stick with this for at least 4-6 weeks just for my own little experimental purposes.2 -
neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »You won't actually get into ketosis with those macro's. Protein is insulinogenic and your carbs are too high. It also takes a while to fully adapt to ketosis and 2 weeks is probably not enough time in a good keto macro. Your basically consuming what would be considered a low carb diet. Chalk up your weight loss to water weight and a calorie deficit. good job though in losing the weight.
EDIT: 40% carbs isn't really low carb. The Average American was a little higher, can't remember maybe 43 in the 1960's and early 70's. Then soon after saturated fat was replaced with more carbs in the diet from the low fat philosophy, basically.
You should probably do more research on keto. It doesn't take two weeks to get into ketosis. You can do it in a few days. And while protein might inhibit some keto production, it will only be suppressed a little.
OP, like others said, it's about calories... Not macro split.
can be fully fat adapted quickly when they drop carbs lower where their body is using ketones as their primary energy source.
Well no.
They still use fat as the main energy source for the upwards 90% of the day as it would have been anyway.
But now your 10-15% that would have been carbs for the brain and the few other organs that can trade off - is now ketones.
Also, 10% carbs was reference to the Keto time - the 40% was used on the balance diet time.
And yes - still not that low carb anyway.
The ketones accesses the fat for ATP so of course fat is the primary energy source, that's what fat adapted means. To access that energy source consistently the person needs to be in full Ketosis. That isn't going to happen when the OP is using 30% protein and 10% carbs....that's 40% of the foods that are insulinogenic. As soon as the beta cells in the pancreas produce insulin the beta cells in the liver stops producing ketones, so your out of ketosis. That's one of the main reasons the Keto diet adherence is so difficult. Does that mean that ketones aren't being made, no, some will when insulin comes back to baseline or for example first thing in the morning after the nights fast or working out fasted etc. The ketone pathway in the brain bypasses the one for glucose so the brain works fine with ketones and anything that crucially needs glucose will be produced through gluconeogenesis. Anyway, we may be talking a similar thing, right now I'm not quite sure
EDIT: The OP was referencing the other diet and seemed to think 40% was low carb, that's why I commented because 40% isn't low carb.
Show me a single study that shows you can't be fat adapted with 30% protein and 10% carbs. The OP was at 1.3 mg/dl. That is a good blood ketone level. Making blanket statements like that us fundamentally incorrect. Calories, total carbs, exercise, fasting times, weight, height, and gender all have an impact. There are fat adapted bodybuilders at 300g of carbs daily.
Fat adapted in a ketosis sense is not the same using using adipose tissue for energy, but sure someone consuming 300g's of carbs will burn fat as well as glycogen, that's the way the body works. Show me a study where 30% proteins and 10% carbs is in a state of ketosis and has metabolically shifted from burning glucose as it's primary fuel source to fat.
So essentially you make a blanket statement and can't back it up. Got it.
OP is in a state of ketosis. Maintaining that for in increased time (4-8 weeks) and they will be "fat adapted".
Everyone will have ketones in their blood, especially when in a deficit. 1.3 is low and that number can be achieved from an overnight fast easily especially in a deficit. I've done the keto diet, not anymore and used a blood ketone meter for 2.5 years and needs to be checked constantly to get an average, a snapshot doesn't mean much. I've had higher levels while just doing low carb as a snapshot, but know I wasn't in the state of ketosis.
It's interesting when this subject comes up that everyone jumps on it trying to discount it like it was a job when in fact if it helps someone achieve their goals, why is there such a problem. Maybe it threatens the CICO people, I really don't know, just an observation. Strange. It's been around forever, there's lots of science especially recently working with the military, and Alzheimer's and other brain dysfunctions. I do cringe myself reading some of these keto posts but I just chalk it up to it's recent popularity and ignorance. Cheers
You should probably go back and read my posts. I have and just transitioned back into the Keto diet. I am a proponent of a ketogenic diet for those who tend to get a lot of cravings and require more structured plans. I cringe when i see non sense about high protein on ketogenic dieta being bad. There is zero evidence to support that it will effect ketosis outside of a small transient drop in ketone bodies. The fact is, protein is the most important component to a fat loss diet, especially on a ketogenic diet. Why? Amino acids, especially L-Luecine, drive muscle protein synthesis. MPS drives protein turnover. And muscle sustainment on keto diets is harder than carb based diets. Carbs are protein sparring and performance enhancing. As Peter Attia states, carbs are like rocket fuel.
OP, another thing you have to consider is your goals. Do you have performance goals? Do yoi have goals to gain some muscle and lose fat during your journey? Do you play anaerobic sports?
If you do, and find a balanced diet just as easy to follow, than follow the balanced diet. If you meed a diet that will suppress hunger, keto diets can be effective.... But so can a high volume low fat diet heavy in plants. For me, the former is much more inline with my natural eating patterns and ketosis suppresses my appetite.
The downside to keto is performance in the gym. For me its an automatic 25% reduction in my lifts. But its a sacrifice for hunger suppression.
For me the keto diet was about constant level energy all day, never hungry but that's the same in my low carb diet, a clear mind and it helped with joint paint in my right hand, which was a little strange to see that come and go while in and out of keto. I also agree eating mostly vegetables and lots of them really helped in keto to suppress hunger as well, no doubt about it.
Proteins are definitely important in a low carb diet and when in nutritional ketosis and they can vary quite bit I give you that. I'd normally reduce my protein when transitioning to keto because of the insulinogenic effects it can have but I believe it was the carbs that effected my transitions the most. It's possible the OP could eventually get into nutritional ketosis over time but unless a person is extremely vigilant counting correctly and lets face it hardly anyone ever gets that spot on it's mostly wishful thinking. Personally it was more about carbs and the timing of that consumption.
Protein intake in keto is kinda controversial because some of the early studies where pretty poor. I think the biggest concern was the liver converting/using amino acids for gluconeogenesis for the supply of glucose for peripheral cells and the brain that require glucose. Also keto was though to be more susceptible to atrophy, but it appears it's muscle sparing for a number of reasons from fatty acids and ketones and one of those ketones being beta-hydroxybutyrate which decreases leucine oxidation and promotes protein synthesis. If muscle gains and gym performance is a high priority then keto is a fail, gotta agree with that. Cheers.
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chrisalexander851 wrote: »No actual performance goals yet, but I have started lifting a little with a kettlebells and dumbbells. I haven't noticed any difference there since I started trying keto.
I also haven't noticed much of the hunger suppression either. I think that is because eating so much fat has reduced the actual volume of food I am getting, plus I am not getting near much fiber as I was before.
I am going to try and stick with this for at least 4-6 weeks just for my own little experimental purposes.
I put protein around 1g/lb and aim for 20g of fiber with 50g total carbs. I also timing most of my carbs before i workout. This is a Targeted Ketogenic Diet (TKD). Its at the higher end of what people suggest is keto but i workout hard, and a fairly muscular guy, so that plays a factor.
I also don't add senseless amounts of fats..i eat leaner proteins and get my fats from avocado or a little EVOO or Avocado oil. When i eat dairy, its low fat. A lot of my fiber is chia seeds, low gi berries, and dark leafy greens.2 -
OP at your size you are most likely insulin resistant. I'd suggest you watch the video by Dr. sten ekberg.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DU84RvE568k1
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