Can't stop gaining weight, or am I?

YellowD0gs
YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Sorry of this becomes too much of a book, I seem to have a lot of conflicting information that has become just so very confusing. For starters, I'm male, now 57, 6'4", currently 230ish. My goal weight is something less than 210, depending on which Dr you ask. And yes, I weigh every darned thing I eat. The short version is: The same diet and exercise regimen that lost me 25 pounds this time last year can't put a stop to the gains this year. Why??

So I've been at the weight loss business since June '19, starting at 250 pounds. I started with general whole body resistance training, 30 minutes of cardio every day, and following a prescribed low-sodium diet, never-mind the calories. I managed to drop about 25 pounds through October '19, and then stalled through February 2020. I had access to a RD at the hospital, and she mentioned MFP as a tool to help track sodium, and diet in general. So I started here with the diet she set up for me (eat more food!), sedentary, 2 pounds per week loss goal. I think that comes out to 1660 cals per day, plus exercise cals, which balances out to about 2200 cals per day, give or take. I usually don't eat that much, so this was a big increase in intake. I did manage to squeak out a small loss in Feb, then the pandemic hit, and I lost access to the gym.

We were in town the day everything shut down, and went to the sporting goods store, and bought the last 3 pieces of equipment in town, 2 15# dumbbells and a large exercise ball. whoopee! I tried to replicate my resistances exercises with the dinky dumbbells, and did a daily walk of 1.5 to 2 miles over flat terrain (we don't have hills around), so no real cardio benefit. Even though this was fairly light exertion, I managed to drop a little over 21 pounds March through July. I actually hit 203 one day and thought "I'm HERE! Sweet!"

I relaxed my diet towards maintenance, I think I had it set to sedentary, lose a pound per week. I will admit that I got bored with the dinky dumbbells, they just weren't doing anything for me. But I was still walking 1.5 to 2 miles every day, or more once hunting season came around. The first 5 pounds came on slowly, Aug-October. I set my diet back to the highest loss rate sometime in the fall, and then rarely ate that much, but from Nov '20-Jan '21, I had gained back to 220.

Now it gets confusing. In mid-Feb, I gained access to the cardiac rehab unit at the hospital, so I got to start back on resistance training and cardio equipment and put an end to this weight gain. Remember, my diet is still set at max per MFP, but I still don't eat that much! I gained 5 pounds in 6 weeks, so now I'm flirting with 230 at the end of March. But from the rehab unit, I get early access to the vaccine, which gives me early access to my old gym to put a stop to this nonsense.

I start back at the gym in April at 228 (daily fluctuations ) and gain 4 pounds in 4 weeks. I went back to the RD who fiddled with the macros, told me to just eat 2200 cals per day and not worry about the exercise cals, and to eat more food! There were many days I would only eat about 1350 per day...for days. And gain another 3 pounds!

So now I have full access to the gym, can do full body resistance training, meaningful cardio, have added in another 1.5 mile walk to my morning...and I'm STILL GAINING WEIGHT!!! I'm struggling to eat 2200 calories per day, can get in the ballpark for fats and protein with effort, only get half the carbs I'm supposed to. And still gaining weight! The same diet and exercise regimen that lost me 25 pounds this time last year can't put a stop to the gains this year. Dr confirms I don't have diabetes, thyroid or other "obvious" health issues (he told me to eat less...2 dieticians told me to EAT MORE FOOD!! Go figure.).

What gives? This is frustrating enough, but I'm going on an extended canoe adventure in August, and they have a hard weight limit...246. At this rate I'll be excluded for obesity!

Thanks for reading, and I appreciate any insights.

Replies

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    edited June 2021
    I see your diary is set to Public - thanks! That makes it easier for us :)

    I see mostly weights and that is great! I do see a tablespoon of Skippy and wonder if you actually weighed it and used tablespoon because that is the value you found in the database? If so, great! If not, it is extremely important to weigh calorie dense foods like peanut butter, mayo, etc.

    I'd like someone more familiar with Garmin or even activity trackers in general to look at your exercise diary and let us know if the 373 adjustment is legit or double counting:

    https://www.myfitnesspal.com/exercise/diary/YellowD0gs?date=2021-06-11
  • wunderkindking
    wunderkindking Posts: 1,615 Member
    I.... might be going to visit the/a doctor right about now for a general work up, including your heart.
  • YellowD0gs
    YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
    wunderkindking wrote: »
    I.... might be going to visit the/a doctor right about now for a general work up, including your heart.
    Thanks, my Cardiologist is quiet happy with his work. Not to be snarky, but the heart attacks and stents are what got me going on weight loss in the first place. As of April, both he and my GP are happy with my condition, other than their desire for me to lose weight... No diabetes, total cholesterol in the 90s, BP and heart rate very good, thyroid fine, insulin fine by 3 tests...
  • YellowD0gs
    YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
    No, I don't track my water weight, but I hope I'm not carrying around 30 pounds of water! Although their are days when my stomach feels like a camel's hump! Ugh, the bloating. During my last visit with the RD, she did say my +/- 2 pound daily weight fluctuations were likely water related...but this has been going on for 10 months and 30 pounds now.

    The one thing I do regret is that through all this, they never gave me a good reading on % body fat, so I don't have any reference point to compare to. Which would have been helpful...
  • YellowD0gs
    YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
    edited June 2021
    Thanks @annpt77 , you were one of the ones I was trying to lure here for your take on things. The only pandemic changes I really had was to swap working out in a gym with whole body Nautilus machines, to trying to do weight work with 15 pound dbs. I'll admit it didn't work all that well. And moving from treadmills, NuSteps, and stationary bikes that can increase workout intensity to walking on flat level paved ground. But I still put in my 30 minutes walking every day after my "workout". Otherwise, besides losing my daily commute, a desk job is a desk job.

    The thing is though, I lost a lot of weight doing that! It was easy! I had a daily routine worked out, how much to eat, how much to exercise, drop 5 pounds a month for months...then it stopped and reversed.

    But it just so confusing, eating that much more food to lose weight.
  • YellowD0gs
    YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
    So at what point does Weight Gain = CI>CO?

    Does Weight Loss = CO>CI?

    Does gaining 30 pounds over 10 months at a steady, consistent rate mean I'm eating too much?

    How many more months of eating more than that will lead to Weight Loss?

    I appreciate the input, and I'm really serious about this, because I only have 6 weeks left to stop this. At this point, I don't even want to lose weight, I just want to stop gaining. Dropping pounds can come after that.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,160 Member
    YellowD0gs wrote: »
    So at what point does Weight Gain = CI>CO?

    Does Weight Loss = CO>CI?

    Does gaining 30 pounds over 10 months at a steady, consistent rate mean I'm eating too much?

    How many more months of eating more than that will lead to Weight Loss?

    I appreciate the input, and I'm really serious about this, because I only have 6 weeks left to stop this. At this point, I don't even want to lose weight, I just want to stop gaining. Dropping pounds can come after that.

    In your case, I think those are giant philosophical questions, not really answerable.

    Generally, 30 pounds over 10 months, added gradually, would be enough to justify adjusting calories downward.

    The sticking point IMO is that the number of calories you tell us you've been logging are IMO already very, very low for a person of your size and activity . . . crazy low, even, I'd say, certainly statistically unusual. For sure, CI and CO have a dynamic relationship, i.e., pushing CI down "too far" (squishy term) will reduce CO inherently, necessarily, given how healthy bodies function. I don't know how extreme that can get, personally. If your logging is accurate, it seems like you could be invoking that effect, frankly. Still, there can be outliers in calorie needs . . . but your previous experience with losing well suggests you aren't a major outlier.

    Have you ever taken a couple of months of calorie intake and loss data, from when you were losing well (preferably from the earlier stages, maybe 2nd month-ish?), and used that to estimate your actual TDEE at the time? That would be (total calorie intake for the time period + (3500 x pounds lost in the time period) )/ days in the time period. Compare that to a TDEE calculator estimate for your weight/activity at the time. (I like Sailrabbit, https://www.sailrabbit.com/bmr/ because it has multiple research-based estimating formulas to compare.) That should give you a hint about whether you're statistically unusual in your calorie needs.

    I don't know whether it's practical/affordable for you, but if I were in your shoes, I think I'd maybe even be looking to see if there was a sports or metabolic lab nearby that could perform a true RMR test (the breath gasses type, not an extrapolation from body fat estimates). If my RMR were significantly lower than population averages, I'd probably take that to a registered dietitian with expertise in dealing with that situation (maybe someone with experience treating people who have eating disorders that depress RMR. (I'm emphatically NOTnotNOT saying you have an ED. I don't think you do, not at all. I just speculate that RDs who deal with that would have some experience helping people increase depressed RMR.) If your RMR is close to normal, as is more probable, then something else is happening (it could still be adaptive thermogenesis, just more on the NEAT side).

    Other than that, I'd suggest you do what you can to increase non-exercise activity, and - if practical - increase exercise, preferably using moderate exercise (to avoid signficantly increased physical stress), before thinking about reducing calorie intake, given how low your intake has been. You might also try a "reverse dieting" approach to get from your customary very low calorie level to the 2200ish number that should work. There are better reference about doing this than I can provide, but basically it would be adding 100-200 calories, sitting on that for a couple of weeks-ish, adding another chunk, etc. Pure speculation, though.

    I do think the specific story you tell does have potential for there to be a water weight factor in your scale weight, too, over the recent months. 30 pounds? That would be a lot.

    I'm pretty much just talking through my hat here, though: Professionals would be better, but I understand you've already consulted some, with conflicting results.

    Best wishes, sincerely!
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,227 Member
    30lbs over 10 months boils down to either medical issues that create high levels of water retention or for whatever reason actually retained Calories in exceeding actually expended Calories out. Whatever reasons can also include a not yet explained departure from expected calories out. It can even include sleep eating!

    I can see 2, 5, 10 lbs being related to *exercise", time of day in relation to previous meals, sodium, constipation. I can see that. I can see it caused by scale/broken/location. But 30lbs over 10 months, corroborated by clothes and how one feels... It is stretching past the point of measurement errors and into consistently exceeding caloric needs.

    Giving medical supervision what do the dietitians say and how come they don't appear concerned?

    I went back and re-read your op.

    And there have been several changes to how you have been eating so it is not at all clear to me that you have a 30 lb 10 month gain doing the same thing.

    To the contrary, you have changed what you're doing several times.

    So I don't even know if we have enough data to justify calling things beyond fluctuation after your last "eat a flat 2200 calories correctly measured" change to your regiment.

    If your total daily activity is approximately 3 miles of walking and then you spend the rest of the day truly sedentary you would be equivalent to MFP lightly active -- how would that level of calories compare to your suggested 2200? If it would prompt a one pound a week loss as an estimate then no worries.

    There do exist some very common issues that affect all of us who log on mfp and even after several years can come back up and bite us!

    Primary one would be to double check all the entries that you're using. Against the labels and against the USDA food database

    Are all items (liquid, solid, semi solid) getting logged by weight BEFORE consumption? Are some items shared and logged as portions or percentage?

    Are some entries inaccurate or common issues such as logging ice cream as 1ml = 1g (high fat items are more than 1ml per 1g), or not logging oil spray and other "0 Cal" foods that achieve that status by serving size label manipulation to stay under the five Cal can we listed as zero limit?

    We're not operating under weight watcher or other plan rules where some items are considered free or not to be logged?

    That's it for my attempt other than to strongly suggest daily weigh in, at the same time, hopefully after using the bathroom and before consuming food or drink, flat and unyielding floor, Good batteries clean feet for the scale and then plug the numbers into weight trend application or website. And adhust goals based on at least two or three weeks of solid daily well collected, kept, and scrubbed and polished data!!!
  • YellowD0gs
    YellowD0gs Posts: 693 Member
    ffpl79bmd1da.jpg

    Thanks. Yes, I have the basics of weighing myself covered. Same scale, location, tile floor, time of day... Other 'than relaxing my diet in July '20, the changes to my diet have been to get MORE restrictive with calorie intake, and/or resume a moderately strenuous workout routine as my weight gain has continued. Those are the significant deviations on the graph. I now have 6 weeks of "flat 2200 cals", and have gained 4-ish pounds, which means it really didn't do anything, unless "give it a month" means "more than 6 weeks". And I'm getting tired of weighing apple cores and cherry pits.

    I've accumulated a bunch of personal recipes for things like casseroles and the like, and almost all of them are through the recipe importer/ingredient matcher functions here. When those say "casserole, serves 6" we cut the casserole into 6 equal portions, and one of those is a portion. I don't know how else to log something like this with no other data to go by. (How many of the noodles did I eat?? 1/6th of them.) But primarily, we're eating "simple" foods, single meats not mixed into anything, fresh veggies, fresh salads (components weighed), or other individual things that I can shoot the UPC code off of. I won't pretend the entries are perfect, but am sure that , if there's an error, it's biased one way and not the other.

    alwcicvjf0hr.jpg

    As I mentioned before, they never did do a measure of body fat% or composition. Would have helped. It has been suggested, and maybe I should go get one of those body composition scales and start tracking what it has to say. Its not that a lab isn't practical or affordable for me...its just about it being 200 miles away.

    Thanks again, y'all. Let's just hope I can keep it under 240 by August.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,160 Member
    IF your bodyweight scale doesn't have a BIA thingie to estimate body fat, and finances are not an issue for it, IMO it might not be that bad an idea to get a respected-brand BIA scale, actually. They're not terribly expensive.

    These are not "accurate" in the sense of the body fat percent number it gives you being reliable, but if you're weighing daily under as consistent conditions as you can manage, the *trend* of its readings may give you some insight, over a multi-week or longer period of daily weighing.

    I have an inexpensive one, and do record what it says daily in Libra (weight trend app). It makes me raise an eyebrow on some unusual days, and I don't for a moment believe the average number it spits out as an absolute, but if I stand back and squint (metaphorically speaking), I think the trend has some relationship to reality, approximately, over an extended period. I grant that I haven't had any *severe* unusual water weight issues (just the normal few up/down pounds, here and gone in a few days). I don't know how well it would handle major or long term ones, if those are in your scenario.

    It would give you some *pseudo* data points, as another input, possibly useful if viewed with appropriate (fairly major) skepticism. Four point (hand holds plus feet) might be a little better than two point (just feet), but I'm not sure it's worth the extra expense.

    Remember that converting the BF% into estimated pounds may give a bit different view of the trend than the absolute percentage numbers do, if weight is changing significantly. Mine puts my LBM, in pounds, at something in the 87-89 pound range over the whole time I've had it, since October 2015, through a range of bodyweights that varied across a range of 27+ pounds. Like I said, I don't believe those absolute numbers, and assume even the range of variation is approximate, but it's plausible to me that my lean mass hasn't changed all that much as my body weight has fluctuated, given my exercise volume/types. No way to be sure, of course, without sports lab data. 🤷‍♀️

    P.S. Thank you: That was a fun rabbit hole. I've occasionally spot-calculated LBM in pounds based on one day's scale estimates, but this time I pulled all of my Libra data into a spreadsheet and actually calculated the values for the whole dataset. Turns out my spreadsheet-fu is still good enough that it wasn't time consuming. I was surprised that the LBM estimate was in such a narrow range, even though my subjective sense had been that it probably hadn't changed lots. It was interesting to see!
  • Beautyofdreams
    Beautyofdreams Posts: 1,009 Member
    Check your food scale. A nickel weighs 5.0 grams, 2 nickels should weigh 10.0 grams and so on. If your scale doesn't get the correct weight at some point then replace the batteries and repeat the test. If still not correct, can you calibrate it or replace it. You can google the weight of various coins to verify this. Renpho makes a good scale that you can buy off Amazon.
    Also, my grandmother developed a fast growing, benign fatty tumor that caused her to gain weight. It was as big as a basketball before discovered and removed. A very remote possibility but worth mentioning.

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