Road bike fit and buying online/direct

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  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
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    The saddle looks like it's titled nose down with a lot of setback, the bars looks tilted up, and there's not much of a vertical offset between saddle and bar. That's atypical setup. Do you have flexibility issues? Was this fit as a tri or TT setup? Transfer from tri or TT setup to road? Did the fitter fit you to this and explain why? How long is the stem? If you don't have structural issues, everything screams it's too small to me. If my fitter fit me to that without a detailed explanation and recommendation (and a strong objection on a compromised setup), I wouldn't revisit him/her ever.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    kcjchang wrote: »
    The saddle looks like it's titled nose down with a lot of setback, the bars looks tilted up, and there's not much of a vertical offset between saddle and bar. That's atypical setup. Do you have flexibility issues? Was this fit as a tri or TT setup? Transfer from tri or TT setup to road? Did the fitter fit you to this and explain why? How long is the stem? If you don't have structural issues, everything screams it's too small to me. If my fitter fit me to that without a detailed explanation and recommendation (and a strong objection on a compromised setup), I wouldn't revisit him/her ever.

    The saddle is pretty level, just the optics of the picture. The bars are rotated up in that pic, an on-the-road adjustment I made last ride just to try to get myself home (was a bad ride). They are no longer like that.

    I've never had much difference in bar height and saddle height, whether I adjust things myself by feel, or fresh off a professional fit. I'm not sure how much is that is because of me and my physiology vs bike geometry.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    Took some trainer video and what I'm feeling on the road does seem to match what I saw in the video.

    I adjusted the saddle position, saddle height, bar height and rotation... We'll see tomorrow.

    If I'm being honest, I think being out of shape and having a weaker than normal core is probably my biggest issue. But that does nothing to justify a new bike, so nevermind... I'm in fine shape.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
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    How much do you need to change the reach? Beyond what differently shaped bars can provide?
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Took some trainer video and what I'm feeling on the road does seem to match what I saw in the video.

    I adjusted the saddle position, saddle height, bar height and rotation... We'll see tomorrow.

    If I'm being honest, I think being out of shape and having a weaker than normal core is probably my biggest issue. But that does nothing to justify a new bike, so nevermind... I'm in fine shape.

    A little improvement this morning, but still a lot of weight/pressure on my hands and increasing discomfort after just 20minutes of riding.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    edited July 2021
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    NorthCascades wrote: »
    How much do you need to change the reach? Beyond what differently shaped bars can provide?

    Honestly? At this point, I'm not sure. Just going by feel on the bike, I want my hoods to be about 15mm lower and about 30mm closer. But I'm so far down the rabbit hole at this point that I'm not sure if I can see the forest or just the trees.
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
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    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    NorthCascades wrote: »
    How much do you need to change the reach? Beyond what differently shaped bars can provide?

    Honestly? At this point, I'm not sure. Just going by feel on the bike, I want my hoods to be about 15mm lower and about 30mm closer. But I'm so far down the rabbit hole at this point that I'm not sure if I can see the forest or just the trees.

    No worries! I can report a similar recent experience. I've had become much less comfortable on my bike in recent years and also a bit slower. (Time marches on!) Problems include sore hands, back, shoulders, and hips. I found that banging over the potholes on my usual on-road ride was leaving my shoulders sore the next day. What attracted me to many of the endurance bikes was the word "compliance." I started lusting after the Specalized Roubaix, with its bouncy seat and handlebars (with quite a lot of added weight). The only thing that put me off was the lack of bicycles in the shops and the limited ability to do test rides due to quarantine rules!

    So, I chose to focus on improving my current bike. Changing to lower-pressure larger tires was a no-brainer. I also added a compliant stem (Redshift). I'm still pondering the seat. I had my bike on the trainer all winter and rode it 1-2 times a week, making several small changes. This is a great way to tweak things up as you can monitor your speed/power and also your comfort. I took careful measurements of my current bike and compared it in detail to those of bikes I was considering (Spec. Roubaix, Canyon Endurace, Trek Domane, Cervello Caledonia, ..., all in the ~$3k range). As I looked at the specs of other bikes, I found that my existing geometry was already in the "endurance" category and wasn't going to change that much with a new bike. Given that I'm very used to this geometry and have tweaked it into it's current configuration over many years, I think that is a good thing.

    So, with all this careful thought, measuring, fretting, and then capitulation to keeping my current bike, I can offer the following: If you think that a shorter stem might make you more comfortable, buy one and try it. It's very easy to swap out and you can get one very affordably on Ebay or elsewhere. You can also try moving your seat forward a bit. On each change, try riding for at least an hour and take note of your comfort and performance.

    Further advice: If your current stem is a 110mm, an 80mm may be too much of a jump. More likely you want to try a 90mm.
  • naomi9271
    naomi9271 Posts: 127 Member
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    There are some really good videos online about how to improve your bike fit. I like the series Cam Nichols on YouTube does with bike fitter Neill Stanbury. I’m going to try to link one of them here

    https://youtu.be/vMmbXAWcgh4
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    naomi9271 wrote: »
    There are some really good videos online about how to improve your bike fit. I like the series Cam Nichols on YouTube does with bike fitter Neill Stanbury. I’m going to try to link one of them here

    https://youtu.be/vMmbXAWcgh4

    I know them... Just watched this one last week.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
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    Bike manufacturers should offer wheel upgrades as part of their stock configurations... wheels should be independent of build configurations. Sucks that I have to go up to Ultegra DI2 for a decent wheelset with many brands.
  • kcjchang
    kcjchang Posts: 709 Member
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    This might be more helpful, https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes/. The video on cleat positioning is ok but KOPS, I stopped listening.
    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
    https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
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    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Bike manufacturers should offer wheel upgrades as part of their stock configurations... wheels should be independent of build configurations. Sucks that I have to go up to Ultegra DI2 for a decent wheelset with many brands.

    What kind of wheels would you put on a bike like the Caledonia?
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
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    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Bike manufacturers should offer wheel upgrades as part of their stock configurations... wheels should be independent of build configurations. Sucks that I have to go up to Ultegra DI2 for a decent wheelset with many brands.

    Yes. Partial custom would be a great feature. Full custom really bumps up the price. To save a few $$ you have to sell the stock wheels and buy new, which is a pain.

    The exception for full custom is if you can scrounge around for used parts. I have a friend that has done numerous custom builds with largely used parts, including frames, which typically means he misses out on more recent features, notably disk brakes. In fact, the non-disk framesets and whole bikes from a few years back are incredibly affordable. And, I'm really not sure if I think disk brakes are that much of an improvement for road bikes. (But, I only have mechanical disks.)
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
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    In the context of buying nice wheels because the ones the bike comes with are place holders, an advantage of disc brakes is your expensive rims aren't wear items. 🙂
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,477 Member
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    I've had 6 shoulder operations since I bought my Cannodale. It fit fine before all the shoulder work. Now the fit is so bad I don't even ride.

    I would like to get something different but each of the 4 LBS in my community of 150,000 people has over 1,000 bikes on back order and no clue, per the owners, when they will be seeing some supply.
  • Jthanmyfitnesspal
    Jthanmyfitnesspal Posts: 3,522 Member
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    NorthCascades wrote: »
    In the context of buying nice wheels because the ones the bike comes with are place holders, an advantage of disc brakes is your expensive rims aren't wear items. 🙂

    Overall, I like my cheap-o mechanical disk brakes. I just put new shoes on them and it was easier than changing the pads on rim-style side-pulls. I was able to put on wider tires without any problem. The braking is fine, but not really noticeably better than well-adjusted rim brakes (assuming good true wheels-- which you want, anyway). I would advise anyone trying to save money on a training-level road bike to buy a non-disk model, which will likely have a huge discount over the newer disk ones.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
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    I don't want to start a braking holy war, but I'm not sure I was clear in making my point and based on two comments in this thread I feel like this is relevant info.

    Somebody posted that he would buy $2,500 wheels for the Caledonia. Not that you can run rim brakes on that frame but since you're also pointing out the fun and financial advantage of a project build...

    Using rims as a brake track means you wear your rims down. I had a set of Zipp 404 Firecrest given to me, just the rims, they were worn out and no longer safe to ride. I thought I would be able to repair them significantly cheaper than buying, couldn't make it happen. I've worn through multiple rims back in the day, I live in Seattle though. I was never willing to spend for very good wheels when I used rim brakes because of this. Now I just replace the rotors and keep the rims - they were $900 each. 🤯

    If you're willing to ride tubulars, it doesn't really matter because those have become so cheap. Excellent ride quality, safer ride, but the expense and hassle!!
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    I've had 6 shoulder operations since I bought my Cannodale. It fit fine before all the shoulder work. Now the fit is so bad I don't even ride.

    I would like to get something different but each of the 4 LBS in my community of 150,000 people has over 1,000 bikes on back order and no clue, per the owners, when they will be seeing some supply.

    If you're convinced you'll never ride that bike again, you would be well advised to sell it this summer. I've never seen a seller's market like this, it is currently worth more than it's likely to ever be again. 🙂

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