People with food sensitivities and/or have done elimination diets

Speakeasy76

Has anyone experienced this phenomenon? You re-introduce a food and seem to do ok with it on the first trial. Thinking it's an ok food, you eat it again, but get symptoms?

I just finished the LEAP elimination diet protocol (yay!). The first time I re-introduced wheat (which was supposed to be low-reactive, according to the blood tests), I noticed mild, but brief, stomach symptoms. Thinking it wasn't too bad, I made pancakes with white whole-wheat flour, but had definite, unusual-for-my-regular-digestive symptoms a few hours later. I initially thought it was gluten, but read to really determine if it's gluten or the fructans in wheat, decided to try spelt flour. Made spelt pancakes, and seemed to feel pretty good afterwards. So, made some zucchini bread with spelt flour 3 days later. I ate some today, and got the same symptoms a few hours later that I got when I ate wheat the 2nd time--again, unusual digestive symptoms for me, so more definitive.

I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else when re-introducing foods?

FYI, I don't react to all high-fructan foods this way, so I'm thinking it may be more gluten-related (dang it!).

SuzySunshine99

Not me, but my husband. He did a Low-FODMAP elimination diet to try to find the source of his stomach issues.

He experienced the same thing when re-introducing food. He'd try something...all was okay...until the next time he had it. We thought gluten as well with him, but sometimes it bothers him and sometimes it doesn't?

I'm starting to think it's actually a combination of things, not individual items. As in, he can have a little gluten as long as he doesn't combine it with onions. He can have onions as long as there's no asparagus. He can have asparagus as long as there's no garlic. Etc.

Volume seems to make a big difference. He can have a little dairy if it's an ingredient in a dish, but he can't put milk on his cereal.

It's driving us mad trying to figure it out.

He's definitely reduced his really bad days by cutting out foods that we KNOW make him sick, but he still has issues sometimes, and nailing down the cause of the problems is proving impossible.

Speakeasy76

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

Not me, but my husband. He did a Low-FODMAP elimination diet to try to find the source of his stomach issues.

He experienced the same thing when re-introducing food. He'd try something...all was okay...until the next time he had it. We thought gluten as well with him, but sometimes it bothers him and sometimes it doesn't?

I'm starting to think it's actually a combination of things, not individual items. As in, he can have a little gluten as long as he doesn't combine it with onions. He can have onions as long as there's no asparagus. He can have asparagus as long as there's no garlic. Etc.

Volume seems to make a big difference. He can have a little dairy if it's an ingredient in a dish, but he can't put milk on his cereal.

It's driving us mad trying to figure it out.

He's definitely reduced his really bad days by cutting out foods that we KNOW make him sick, but he still has issues sometimes, and nailing down the cause of the problems is proving impossible.

Yes, this has pretty much been my experience as well! I was adding foods back in one at a time, too. I've been wondering if it's the combination of certain foods, how frequently or how much volume I've eaten of certain foods, or how the food is prepared. I am almost certain that some veggies I can tolerate ok when they're cooked, but not raw ...but I pretty much knew that before I started. However, some foods I thought were definite offenders don't consistently bother me.

Adding to the confusion is that I started a few new medications and one supplement that can have side effects. It also appears that even some of my vitamin supplements that I thought would be safe cause stomach problems. I was actually recommended to do this by my PT for joint/muscle aches, and I definitely noticed a difference early on. However, those symptoms can be caused by so many things and is often delayed, so it's been difficult pinpointing exact causes.

ritzvin

Same. I can do wheat in small quantities, but the effect also seems to be somewhat cumulative. (if I repeatedly do small amounts in a time period, I'll hit the threshold where I get symptoms).

Jthanmyfitnesspal

These are really hard problems to pinpoint. I know someone who went through a big effort of eliminating all sorts of things over about a two year period. It turns out that he most important eliminations were alcohol and caffeine.

Noreenmarie1234

If I don't eat something for awhile I always have an upset stomach when I have it again. (for example dairy, eggs, gluten, onions, etc)

VegjoyP

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

If I don't eat something for awhile I always have an upset stomach when I have it again. (for example dairy, eggs, gluten, onions, etc)

We loose the enzymes needed to break down the food. Thats why when people switch to vegan or other foods it has an adjustment period. Food therapy techniques can use a very small amount of a food- say a tablespoon of beans- daily for weeks then slowly increase. This allows adaptations

danofthedead1979

I did a food sensitivity test, not blood or arm pricks, but hair sample (I know it's not a proven method) it said I was highly sensitive to dairy and chicken. I cut dairy from my diet for 2 weeks, my IBS symptoms which had been bugging me for ages literally disappeared overnight. I have turned vegan the beginning of this week, (for ethical reasons, been mulling over it for a while, it was bugging my conscience) the cutting of dairy from my diet probably gave me that impetus to do it. I'm going to miss the taste of real cheese, but not the stomach cramps and diarrhoea.

Speakeasy76

Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »

These are really hard problems to pinpoint. I know someone who went through a big effort of eliminating all sorts of things over about a two year period. It turns out that he most important eliminations were alcohol and caffeine.

I am almost positive alcohol in general aggravates my joints and stomach (and definitely wine in particular), even though I don't drink that much. I have cut back on my caffeine and am generally fine with the cold brew I make at home, but if I get it a tall from Starbucks or even DD, I notice headaches afterwards.

From what I'm finding out more and more is that some foods are okay in small doses, but if I have too much or like 2 days in a row--now bueno.

shaumom

Speakeasy76 wrote: »

Has anyone experienced this phenomenon? You re-introduce a food and seem to do ok with it on the first trial. Thinking it's an ok food, you eat it again, but get symptoms...
I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else when re-introducing foods?

Oh yeah, this happens to me and a number of folks I know.

I can share what I know about possible reasons why, if I know them.


One possible reason: mild food allergies.

The body makes histamine for a LOT of body processes (increases heart rate during exercise, for example), so having SOME histamine in the body is normal. It's only when we have too much histamine that we start having problems (which can be rashes and hives, but for some it can be gut issues, bowel issues, hay fever like symptoms, all sorts of stuff). It's kind of like having a cup of histamine, and we're fine until it overflows.

Also, histamine takes a while to break down, so when we have elevated histamine, it lasts for a while, a few hours to a few days.

So, for mild food allergies (which often won't be enough to ping a prick test), you can eat a small amount and have a low level histamine bump that isn't enough to overflow your 'cup.' But then you have it again soon after, or you start eating more of it? Then you have a lot MORE histamine and it's enough to overflow the cup and you start having problems.

Another possible issue: quantity based reactions.

Some of these are known, like lactose intolerance. Some folks make a LITTLE lactase to digest the lactose, so they can have a small amount of it, but eat more and they can't break it down and it causes problems. Some other foods can require certain enzymes (or certain gut bacteria) to break down the food, and it can be low due to some problem that will never get better, or it can be low because the food hasn't been eaten in a while and it needs to build up.

i would say, though, that this does NOT apply to all foods. It doesn't apply to gluten. There is not a gluten specific enzyme. There are some things that are used to break down grains, as I understand it, but as long as a person is still eating some kind of grain, then they're fine. And even then, it has to be a LONG time of avoiding a food before that happens, typically, or at least, that it happens in a way that isn't fixed within a couple days of eating the food again. If someone doesn't eat gluten, then starts eating it again and it causes problems? Then they have a problem with gluten (this is literally how quite a few celiacs get diagnosed, because we often end up reacting more to gluten after a long period of not eating it, for some reason).

Just to illustrate why humans do okay not eating foods for a long while, though: in human history before the modern era, we typically would have most foods ONLY when in season, so there would be months where we would not eat a certain food. Our bodies are literally built to expect long period of time between the eating of some foods, and they adjust fairly quickly when the food comes back, typically.

ALSO, though, some food sensitivities seem to be quantity based but doctors aren't quite sure how it works yet. Reactions to certain preservatives, for example, can be that way, or even to some foods. Even some allergic reactions are that way - each person has their, well, personal threshold for how much of the food they can have before they react to it, you know?

Oh, also - if cooked food is okay, and raw isn't working, that is usually indicative of a possible allergy, usually a lower level one. The cooking denatures the proteins that cause the allergic reaction, so in foods with less complex proteins, it can denature them entirely and make the food safe to eat for someone allergic to them (the big 8 allergens all have more complex proteins that require so much heat to fully denature the proteins that they still aren't safe after regular cooking).

Speakeasy76

shaumom wrote: »

Speakeasy76 wrote: »

Has anyone experienced this phenomenon? You re-introduce a food and seem to do ok with it on the first trial. Thinking it's an ok food, you eat it again, but get symptoms...
I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else when re-introducing foods?

Oh yeah, this happens to me and a number of folks I know.

I can share what I know about possible reasons why, if I know them.


One possible reason: mild food allergies.

The body makes histamine for a LOT of body processes (increases heart rate during exercise, for example), so having SOME histamine in the body is normal. It's only when we have too much histamine that we start having problems (which can be rashes and hives, but for some it can be gut issues, bowel issues, hay fever like symptoms, all sorts of stuff). It's kind of like having a cup of histamine, and we're fine until it overflows.

Also, histamine takes a while to break down, so when we have elevated histamine, it lasts for a while, a few hours to a few days.

So, for mild food allergies (which often won't be enough to ping a prick test), you can eat a small amount and have a low level histamine bump that isn't enough to overflow your 'cup.' But then you have it again soon after, or you start eating more of it? Then you have a lot MORE histamine and it's enough to overflow the cup and you start having problems.

Another possible issue: quantity based reactions.

Some of these are known, like lactose intolerance. Some folks make a LITTLE lactase to digest the lactose, so they can have a small amount of it, but eat more and they can't break it down and it causes problems. Some other foods can require certain enzymes (or certain gut bacteria) to break down the food, and it can be low due to some problem that will never get better, or it can be low because the food hasn't been eaten in a while and it needs to build up.

i would say, though, that this does NOT apply to all foods. It doesn't apply to gluten. There is not a gluten specific enzyme. There are some things that are used to break down grains, as I understand it, but as long as a person is still eating some kind of grain, then they're fine. And even then, it has to be a LONG time of avoiding a food before that happens, typically, or at least, that it happens in a way that isn't fixed within a couple days of eating the food again. If someone doesn't eat gluten, then starts eating it again and it causes problems? Then they have a problem with gluten (this is literally how quite a few celiacs get diagnosed, because we often end up reacting more to gluten after a long period of not eating it, for some reason).

Just to illustrate why humans do okay not eating foods for a long while, though: in human history before the modern era, we typically would have most foods ONLY when in season, so there would be months where we would not eat a certain food. Our bodies are literally built to expect long period of time between the eating of some foods, and they adjust fairly quickly when the food comes back, typically.

ALSO, though, some food sensitivities seem to be quantity based but doctors aren't quite sure how it works yet. Reactions to certain preservatives, for example, can be that way, or even to some foods. Even some allergic reactions are that way - each person has their, well, personal threshold for how much of the food they can have before they react to it, you know?

Oh, also - if cooked food is okay, and raw isn't working, that is usually indicative of a possible allergy, usually a lower level one. The cooking denatures the proteins that cause the allergic reaction, so in foods with less complex proteins, it can denature them entirely and make the food safe to eat for someone allergic to them (the big 8 allergens all have more complex proteins that require so much heat to fully denature the proteins that they still aren't safe after regular cooking).

Thank you for taking the time to write this; it was very helpful. This is kind of along the lines of what I read in my manual that went along with the LEAP elemination diet, as well as what the RD told me, but your explanation is actually more thorough.

One theory that I read in the manual is that one can build up a sensitivity to a food if it's eaten frequently, so it advises to rotate foods frequently. However, there were a few foods that I've never eaten or don't eat that much of, but the test identified them as reactive.


My mom discovered she had an allergy to tomatoes in her 50's, but only to raw ones. She also seems to have a lot of reactions to other foods that weren't identified on the allergy testing she had done at the time. I seem to have inherited her food sensitivities AND my dad's musculoskeletal/joint issues....yay!

MikePfirrman

I'm celiac. I just don't do gluten at all any more. If I do, I'm sick for at least a day and the migraine all night long just isn't worth it.

My wife was severely allergic to cow dairy. But once she eliminated that and gluten, she started developing Histamine Intolerances and reacted to wine and nuts. Once she added back in goat/sheep dairy, those went away.

After years of just knowing what I go through and what she goes through, I think I believe that really limiting your diet can make some food allergies worse. I think Celiac is one of those things that, once you have it, you really can't reintroduce gluten. But with everything else, if you become super selective about what you eat, it can have the effect of becoming more sensitive to other foods.

No one fully understands. Just this past month, I read two studies related to the Microbiome that weren't really all that publicly broadcast. One said that Sucralose and Aspertame turn E Coli and other bacteria that are naturally in everyone's digestive tract into pathogenic. They will attack your stomach/digestive cell wall. That ain't good and should suggest permanently that diet soda isn't like water, like many believe -- and it only took the equivalent of two diet sodas to do this damage.

Another study found a strong correlation between eating highly processed foods, intake of animal products and IBS. Most all with IBS eat tons of junk food/processed garbage. But some that ate junk didn't get IBS and others did. They are figuring out what is the variable is how much animal products (meat and dairy) you eat on top of the overly processed foods. This wasn't causal, but sure interesting.

Even exercise can impact the healthy bacteria in your body. Just so many variables that are just starting to be understood.

acpgee

Not me, but a friend of mine pinpointed life long irritable bowl syndrom using a breath test. Not sure, but I think you avoid a known fodmap category prior to each test and then eat it in the lab to compare gases you exhale before and after . It turned out his bowels did not have the bacteria to digest alliums. A bit of a tough diagnosis for a French guy.

SuzySunshine99

I think another factor is stress level/mood.

With my husband, if he is very stressed or angry about something, then it's way more likely his stomach will blow up if he eats one thing on his "no" list.

He just commented about how when we were on vacation, his stomach didn't bother him, even though he ate some things that he's supposed to be avoiding. He was very relaxed and happy on our vacation, so I really think it's a factor...not the sole cause, but definitely a factor.

Speakeasy76

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

I think another factor is stress level/mood.

With my husband, if he is very stressed or angry about something, then it's way more likely his stomach will blow up if he eats one thing on his "no" list.

He just commented about how when we were on vacation, his stomach didn't bother him, even though he ate some things that he's supposed to be avoiding. He was very relaxed and happy on our vacation, so I really think it's a factor...not the sole cause, but definitely a factor.

Oh for SURE stress bothers my stomach, and it makes a lot of sense since the vagus nerve connects the gut and brain. Also, think about how we feel when we get acute anxiety or "nervous" about something--we often feel it in our stomachs. Chronic stress can definitely disrupt how our gut functions. I've actually started telling my kids when I am eating I want to eat in peace, because when they start arguing it increases my stress, which starts to make my stomach hurt. I mean, I know I"m the adult and am supposed to learn how to manage it, but I figured it was one more tool in my toolbox to help with their bickering!

Speakeasy76

MikePfirrman wrote: »

I'm celiac. I just don't do gluten at all any more. If I do, I'm sick for at least a day and the migraine all night long just isn't worth it.

My wife was severely allergic to cow dairy. But once she eliminated that and gluten, she started developing Histamine Intolerances and reacted to wine and nuts. Once she added back in goat/sheep dairy, those went away.

After years of just knowing what I go through and what she goes through, I think I believe that really limiting your diet can make some food allergies worse. I think Celiac is one of those things that, once you have it, you really can't reintroduce gluten. But with everything else, if you become super selective about what you eat, it can have the effect of becoming more sensitive to other foods.

No one fully understands. Just this past month, I read two studies related to the Microbiome that weren't really all that publicly broadcast. One said that Sucralose and Aspertame turn E Coli and other bacteria that are naturally in everyone's digestive tract into pathogenic. They will attack your stomach/digestive cell wall. That ain't good and should suggest permanently that diet soda isn't like water, like many believe -- and it only took the equivalent of two diet sodas to do this damage.

Another study found a strong correlation between eating highly processed foods, intake of animal products and IBS. Most all with IBS eat tons of junk food/processed garbage. But some that ate junk didn't get IBS and others did. They are figuring out what is the variable is how much animal products (meat and dairy) you eat on top of the overly processed foods. This wasn't causal, but sure interesting.

Even exercise can impact the healthy bacteria in your body. Just so many variables that are just starting to be understood.

Even though I know what foods seem to trigger reactions, I definitely don't plan on avoiding those foods forever--just eat less of it, more sparingly. I know oregano causes problems...well, I had Mexican food Friday, and Mediterranean on Saturday. I also had a few tortilla chips, even though I know corn causes issues. I knew I would pay for having oregano two days in a row, and I did, but at least I have a better idea of what it is now.

Regarding those who have IBS being more likely to eat highly processed foods and a lot of animal products...I don't know if that applies to me. I have never been officially diagnosed with IBS, but certainly have had digestive issues for quite some time. However, I've eaten a pretty healthy diet for several years, although do eat animal products. My husband, on the other hand, eats like crap most of the time and really doesn't care about what he eats, and he almost never has stomach problems. I've also been a regular exerciser for several years, with more emphasis on movement outside of exercise for the last 1 or 2. However, the one difference is that I've been drinking diet soda for the past 33 years (although not currently), and he doesn't and never has. I did try some "real ingredients" coffee syrup that happened to contain erythritol, and my stomach was not feeling great that morning, despite having eaten only "safe" foods with it.

What I am learning is that food sensitivities aren't really the same as IBS, though. Supposedly, if I did have IBS, high-FODMAP foods should aggravate it, and that doesn't seem to consistently be the case for me.

Speakeasy76

I know I'm spamming my own post, but this article about food sensitivities and weight loss happened to pop up on my email from My Fitness Pal, of all things. Here are some highlights:

Food sensitivities are understudied compared to allergies and intolerances, Cureton says. They’re similar in the sense that they’re immune-mediated reactions to particular nutrients (meaning the immune system is involved), but they’re not exactly the same as food allergies, and they’re not as well-understood. “Importantly, the symptoms of the sensitivity can change, meaning that reactions don’t always happen the same way,” Cureton says. One day, eating the nutrient you’re sensitive to could result in a stomachache, the next day it could produce eczema, the next day it could result in joint pain, she explains. That can make food sensitivities tricky to pin down.

That said, if someone is having GI issues, eczema, psoriasis or any other inflammatory symptoms along with weight-loss resistance, then food sensitivities could be considered a potential factor, according to McAsey. That’s because there are a few different ways food sensitivities might contribute to having a hard time losing weight.

First, most research on weight and inflammation looks at how increases in weight lead to inflammation — not the other way around, McAsey says. But in her clients, she’s observed that once underlying inflammation from food sensitivities is addressed, weight loss becomes easier. “Once someone is in a healthier state, we typically see that they’ll settle into a healthy weight for their body without having to resort to intentional weight-loss strategies,” she notes.

Secondly, food sensitivities generally make people feel unwell. “When we don’t feel well, it’s difficult to spend energy on activities like exercise and cooking healthy meals, which are essential for weight loss,” Davis points out.

Food sensitivities can also cause bloating and discomfort that may mimic weight gain, Cureton says. Plus, if you start restricting the foods you eat because you’re not sure which foods are causing symptoms, you might end up eating more processed foods, which increase calorie intake and may exacerbate bloating, Cureton explains.


When I started my elimination diet, I started losing weight pretty rapidly for a person already within the normal BMI range. I went from a BMI of 22 to 20.2 in a matter of about 12 weeks. Since I was still tracking on MFP, my caloric deficit in no way would have accounted for that amount of loss in that short of time. I'd say since finishing about a week ago I've gone up maybe about a pound from my lowest, and of course I fluctuate within a few pounds. I don't physically feel as good as when I was in maybe the first 3 phases, and as much as I hate to admit it, I know caffeine is part of it (even drinking less than I used to). Before starting, I wanted to lose about 5 pounds and had successfully gone from a 23 BMI to 21.7, but intentionally in a period of about 5 months. I lost those 5 pounds plus 5 more in a rather short amount of time without as much as effort.