Alternate day fasting here
Stud47
Posts: 389 Member
Im 51 yo man and i have done fasting (intermittent fasting, water fasting, dry fasting) for many years and that helped me keep a good health and shape but the last 5 years i neglected myself and im now in a bad shape and i decided to go back to my old lifestyle (sport, healthy food and fasting). I like fasting very much
On August 1th, i decided to begin my journey of Alternate day fasting (ADF) and im keeping on track. Would like to have some support or buddies who does the ADF.
All fasting are good modified ADF allows up to 500 cal the fasting days but i personally prefer True ADF which is no calories on fasting days.
Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is an intermittent fasting approach but the period of fast is extended.
The basic idea is that you fast on one day, and then eat what you want the next day preferably in a small window ( my eating window is from 1pm to 6pm, sometimes to 7pm )
Im doing one day zero sugar and the other day i eat normal but with no excess.
When you eat more food than you can readily expend the excess energy is stored away for later use. When we eat our insulin levels increase and help to store energy in two ways. Sugars form long chains and are stored as glycogen in the liver. This energy source is for immediate use. There is limited storage space in the liver so; once capacity is reached the liver then begins to turn excess energy into fat to be stored on the body. There is no limit to how much fat can be stored on the body.
The catch is that you can't access the energy stored as fat until you've first depleted the liver of sugars. So, if you continue with high eating frequencies you are keeping your body in a constant fed state your body will continue to get energy from incoming food sources never depleting the liver of sugar and never allowing your body to access the stored fat on your body thereby leading to weight gain.
The key to unlocking the fat stores is Fasting.
With ADF especially True ADF (zero cal on fasting days), you are quite certain to lose weight because its a lifestyle more than calories deficit that ends most of the time by regaining all the weight losted.
On August 1th, i decided to begin my journey of Alternate day fasting (ADF) and im keeping on track. Would like to have some support or buddies who does the ADF.
All fasting are good modified ADF allows up to 500 cal the fasting days but i personally prefer True ADF which is no calories on fasting days.
Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is an intermittent fasting approach but the period of fast is extended.
The basic idea is that you fast on one day, and then eat what you want the next day preferably in a small window ( my eating window is from 1pm to 6pm, sometimes to 7pm )
Im doing one day zero sugar and the other day i eat normal but with no excess.
When you eat more food than you can readily expend the excess energy is stored away for later use. When we eat our insulin levels increase and help to store energy in two ways. Sugars form long chains and are stored as glycogen in the liver. This energy source is for immediate use. There is limited storage space in the liver so; once capacity is reached the liver then begins to turn excess energy into fat to be stored on the body. There is no limit to how much fat can be stored on the body.
The catch is that you can't access the energy stored as fat until you've first depleted the liver of sugars. So, if you continue with high eating frequencies you are keeping your body in a constant fed state your body will continue to get energy from incoming food sources never depleting the liver of sugar and never allowing your body to access the stored fat on your body thereby leading to weight gain.
The key to unlocking the fat stores is Fasting.
With ADF especially True ADF (zero cal on fasting days), you are quite certain to lose weight because its a lifestyle more than calories deficit that ends most of the time by regaining all the weight losted.
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Replies
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The catch is that you can't access the energy stored as fat until you've first depleted the liver of sugars. So, if you continue with high eating frequencies you are keeping your body in a constant fed state your body will continue to get energy from incoming food sources never depleting the liver of sugar and never allowing your body to access the stored fat on your body thereby leading to weight gain.
The key to unlocking the fat stores is Fasting.
With ADF especially True ADF (zero cal on fasting days), you are quite certain to lose weight because its a lifestyle more than calories deficit that ends most of the time by regaining all the weight losted.
I'm glad you're doing something that works for you. But the first bolded statement is not true, as many people here who have lost weight without fasting can attest (including me).
The reason fasting works for you is because it helps you attain a caloric deficit (burning more calories than you consume) by limiting your consumption.
The second bold statement regarding weight regain is not because something is wrong with a calorie deficit as a method, it's because people revert to old habits, etc. Just like when you stop fasting, you can gain back the weight as well.14 -
"The catch is that you can't access the energy stored as fat until you've first depleted the liver of sugars."
That's a complete misunderstanding of how human physiology works.
You are burning both fat and carbs simultaneously and primarily that ratio is determined by your activity/exercise intensity.
Asleep the vast majority of your energy needs are being met from fat, it's not until you are exercising quite hard that carbs (glycogen) overtake fat as the main energy source, my 50/50 point when tested in a sports science lab was about 130bpm.
If you do manage to completely deplete your glycogen stores with long duration and badly fuelled cardio that's what cyclists call bonking and runners call hitting the wall. Basicially you get crushing fatigue, mental confusion, loss of co-ordination.
BTW I'm not against IF or the ADF version - I lost my excess weight with the 5:2 diet which is similar.13 -
When you eat more food than you can readily expend the excess energy is stored away for later use. When we eat our insulin levels increase and help to store energy in two ways. Sugars form long chains and are stored as glycogen in the liver. This energy source is for immediate use. There is limited storage space in the liver so; once capacity is reached the liver then begins to turn excess energy into fat to be stored on the body. There is no limit to how much fat can be stored on the body.
The catch is that you can't access the energy stored as fat until you've first depleted the liver of sugars. So, if you continue with high eating frequencies you are keeping your body in a constant fed state your body will continue to get energy from incoming food sources never depleting the liver of sugar and never allowing your body to access the stored fat on your body thereby leading to weight gain.
The key to unlocking the fat stores is Fasting.
Just for education - another incorrect aspect of physiology.
Insulin sends glucose to liver AND muscles stores first - and it's what you use as energy while the insulin is elevated. Along with available fat from meal or already in blood stream.
It's why even in deficit eating, ie maintenance - little of carbs is actually stored as fat in the first place. And if it happens to be - it's pulled right back out and burned.
In a diet that all happens quicker than not in a diet - and insulin lowers sooner than later.
And then ditto to sijomial when fat is used.
I IF too, usually about 20:4 just because of schedule.
And I'd never make it through the day and a 2 hr bike ride on only liver glucose store - fat is predominant energy source as shown out from metabolic tests, until I get to that bike ride, when glycogen becomes majority.9 -
You are right ADF works for me personally way better than calories counting because It’s keep me on track comparing to other methods I have tried. I’m not trying to convince people that ADF is the best for all, it’s not one size fits all but I wanted to share my personal journey here.2
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Day 1 ADF was 1st August.
SW: 188.5 lbs
CW: coming on saturday 7
Weight loss : coming on saturday 7
Next update saturday
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You are right ADF works for me personally way better than calories counting because It’s keep me on track comparing to other methods I have tried. I’m not trying to convince people that ADF is the best for all, it’s not one size fits all but I wanted to share my personal journey here.
Personal story sharing is good - making sweeping and incorrect physiological statements is not.
I'm glad you have found a method that works for you.
It definitely isnt for me though.
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Im noy specialist in physiology my field is way far from this, i found those statements somewhere in a site that refers to Dr Fung a famous nephrologist. He's a world-leading expert on intermittent fasting and low carb, especially for treating people with type 2 diabet.
Those statements are correct or wrong?, im not an expert to confirm it and its not the purpose of my post and i dont want to talk about this anymore.
SO forget the last part of my post (the physiological statements) and focus on my personal experience
Thanks anyway3 -
sometimes i experiment. i’m not needing to lose weight- 111lb at 7% 5’4’’ but ill do 3500cal one day and 500 cal next. clean eating tho. mainly healthy fats, good protein and no sugars or refined carbs. no change overall.1
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Glad it's working for you, OP. From time to time there have been people on the boards who have had great success losing significant portions of their weight this way. It seems it works best in the early days with folks who have a lot to lose and difficulty transitioning to portion sizes appropriate to their goals. E.g. one day they don't have to think about it and the next they get to eat double the appropriate amount which is more satisfying to them.
Over time and with ADF success, two things happen- one physiological and one mental.
1) As body fat decreases, the energy available daily from body fat decreases. There is a metabolic limit to how much fat a body can convert to energy per unit time; it is not unlimited. An often used rule of thumb (that I personally have tried to source without success) to estimate just how much energy you can get from fat daily is 30kcal/lb fat/day. Someone with 100lb lean and 100lb fat can get up to 3,000 kcal of energy per day just from fat stores, without eating anything. Once that same person leans down to 20 lb fat, they can get 600kcal of energy MAX from fat without eating. The lean person is going to feel a lot more run down and tired than the person with greater fat stores. The lean person is also at higher risk for losing lean mass with frequent fasting. Hence, people who have used ADF successfully eventually reach a point of leanness where they feel better when they even out their intake.
2) As you near GW, it's a good idea to think about and plan for how you are going to maintain that weight. ADF may not be a good long term strategy for the physiological reason above, which means you have to habituate yourself to eating, enjoying and feeling satisfied with the appropriate portion sizes for your GW. I remember one person who lost a lot using ADF indicating that when she neared GW, she switched to eating at maintenance for GW. It was a pretty slow rate of loss, but she reached her goal and by that point had a lot of practice and had developed a lot of habits around appropriate portion sizes.
There are lots of ways to be successful losing weight. There is no one right way that works best for everyone, and there may not be one right way that works forever with the same person. Everyone has to adapt on occasion. I wish you every success with ADF, OP!6 -
While I'm glad you personally have had success with ADF....
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34135111/
Alternate-day fasting less effectively reduces body fat mass than a matched degree of daily energy restriction and without evidence of fasting-specific effects on metabolic regulation or cardiovascular health.4 -
Thank you guys for your input and comments. I totally agree that ADF could be a good boost for someone to loose weight and motivate him. I also agree for a long term and maintaining weight some adjustment have to be made :
example : personally right now i like ADF but who knows i might switch later (or combine) from ''True ADF'' (zero calories intake at fasting days) to Modified ADF (that allows some calories up to 600 for men), to OMAD, to Simple intermittent fasting 18/6. Personally i noticed in the last 2 years that intermittent fasting 18/6 or 20/24 helps me more to maintain weigh than losing it but its something that i like too. I like also sometimes do water fasting for few days or even dry fasting.
Many combinations are possible and sure we have to adapt our method to different situations.
so i totally agree with your statements ahoy_m8.
There are lots of ways to be successful losing weight. There is no one right way that works best for everyone, and there may not be one right way that works forever with the same person. Everyone has to adapt on occasion.
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While I'm glad you personally have had success with ADF....
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34135111/
Alternate-day fasting less effectively reduces body fat mass than a matched degree of daily energy restriction and without evidence of fasting-specific effects on metabolic regulation or cardiovascular health.
It makes a sens that daily controlled calories is more effective in losing body fat than ADF and prevents from losing lot of muscles. Unfortunately, im someone who is not very disciplined on counting calories lol, for me i can handle easily not eating at all and when eating not counting than calorie counting. the good news i do some bodybuilding to attenuate muscle lost.0 -
It makes a sens that daily controlled calories is more effective in losing body fat than ADF and prevents from losing lot of muscles. .
Just to clarify, in the study, the ADF group did have calories controlled. "75:75" is the linear/daily caloric restriction group running a 25% daily deficit, "0:150" is the zero-calorie ADF group consuming a 50% surplus on feeding days (thus making it the deficit equivalent of 75:75), and "0:200" is the zero-calorie ADF group with a 100% surplus on feeding days (thus functioning as a eucaloric balance, or maintenance model).
Once again, if ADF works for you - fits your preferences & your lifestyle & you have success with it - then keep on keepin' on! I was just sharing something that I found somewhat pertinent to the discussion, especially if others are considering it. Absolutely not diminishing your results!
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It makes a sens that daily controlled calories is more effective in losing body fat than ADF and prevents from losing lot of muscles. .
Just to clarify, in the study, the ADF group did have calories controlled. "75:75" is the linear/daily caloric restriction group running a 25% daily deficit, "0:150" is the zero-calorie ADF group consuming a 50% surplus on feeding days (thus making it the deficit equivalent of 75:75), and "0:200" is the zero-calorie ADF group with a 100% surplus on feeding days (thus functioning as a eucaloric balance, or maintenance model).
Once again, if ADF works for you - fits your preferences & your lifestyle & you have success with it - then keep on keepin' on! I was just sharing something that I found somewhat pertinent to the discussion, especially if others are considering it. Absolutely not diminishing your results!
Thanks
0+1.5 in 2 days makes 1.5/2 = 75 % so then its 25% daily deficit.
I wont lie my formula is more restrictive. I do 0+1, my daily deficit is 50 %.. I know it could have some bad effects on muscles but doing some bodybuilding will help attenuate the loss.
Few years ago and again its my own experience i hade a checkup and my doctor told me that my glycemia was high, cholesterol too and other indicators were bad too. i did IF and sport and 3 months later all my results were improved, the doctor was surprised but when i told him what i did he said that's just losing weight helps improving the checkup results and agreed that fasting has its benefices. 0 -
Hi week update
Sunday
SW : 190 lbs
PW : 188.5 lbs
CW : 182.87 lbs
5.63 lbs loss1 -
Hi OP
I also just started ADF this week. I tried normal IF a few years ago (living out of country where I couldn't really know how my food was being made so it was an easier way of creating a deficit) and had great success.
My work schedule changed and IF was no longer as convenient so I thought I would try out ADF instead. I'm way too early to see whether this is the right fit or not, but i also personally find it easier to just have a time period where i don't eat at all (or very very little) to create a deficit instead of needing to very carefully monitor a smaller deficit each day. I can see that this approach would not be the best thing for anyone who has a history with ED's or why some people would prefer to eat at 75% every day instead. I've done calorie counting long enough that I generally know (give or take) how much I'm eating, and my plan is to still track on MFP so that i dont go overboard.
I was wondering for those who do ADF how they arrange their exercise? Like, do you go easier on fast days and not workout as hard (or at all) those days? Or do you find that after an initial adjustment period your energy levels do not fluctuate on fast days?1 -
Welcome on board jelleigh. Personnaly this year i exercice on my eating days but im planning to adjust it in few weeks and exercice on fasting days too because i find indeed that my energy level increases the more my body get used to ADF.0
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Just suggest you keep the fasting day workouts to something non-intense. Walking comes to mind.
Because of the resources you've listed - I know you've also read about being fat adapted which is a bunch of crap the way it's normally applied.
As several have stated your body already knew how and was indeed burning fat for majority of daily time.
What became fat adapted was your brain energy usage for about 400-500 calories worth of glycogen now to fat ultimately.
But you push your body up the intensity level there is NOT enough oxygen to oxidize just fat and therefore glycogen will be used at some point to greater and greater %.
Depending on your diet for the eating day, you could easily put body into a state where there is not enough stored glycogen to handle those needs, fat isn't fast enough, lactic acid isn't fast or abundant enough, and protein will be converted for usage - what's floating around already in blood stream and available, and what can be broken down to use.
Not saying that will happen - but low carb on eating days, intense workouts or anaerobic only - you can get there.
Not a good state.
Just be careful.1 -
Hi OP
I also just started ADF this week. I tried normal IF a few years ago (living out of country where I couldn't really know how my food was being made so it was an easier way of creating a deficit) and had great success.
My work schedule changed and IF was no longer as convenient so I thought I would try out ADF instead. I'm way too early to see whether this is the right fit or not, but i also personally find it easier to just have a time period where i don't eat at all (or very very little) to create a deficit instead of needing to very carefully monitor a smaller deficit each day. I can see that this approach would not be the best thing for anyone who has a history with ED's or why some people would prefer to eat at 75% every day instead. I've done calorie counting long enough that I generally know (give or take) how much I'm eating, and my plan is to still track on MFP so that i dont go overboard.
I was wondering for those who do ADF how they arrange their exercise? Like, do you go easier on fast days and not workout as hard (or at all) those days? Or do you find that after an initial adjustment period your energy levels do not fluctuate on fast days?
@jelleigh
When I did 5:2 (c. 600 cals on the two low days) the first few fasts were hard and exercise made them harder.
At first even moderate exercise in the gym was too much and I actually had to abandon a couple of fasts and eat more.
But I did adapt over an extended period of time with slowly increasing the amount of exercise I could do on a low calorie day. In the end strength training felt just the same fed or fasted (it's a relatively low calorie burn) and I could burn roughly 500cals with moderate cardio without ill effects. I would regard them as my easy exercise days and wouldn't choose to do any intense or extended duration exercise.
Things to keep in mind though was that with 5:2 you are going into a low calorie day after eating at maintenance level so pretty well fuelled, I would tend to exercise after a 200 cals lunch so not entirely fasted and I also had a relatively high carb diet on my maintenance days.
Would suggest cautious experimentation as I knew others doing 5:2 that couldn't tolerate any exercise beyond a gentle walk on the fasting days and never adapted.2 -
@sijomial thanks for the info. I will keep an eye on things then.
So far I’ve managed some long walks on my fast days and I’m going to slowly ramp up to more intense workouts over time. I think I will follow your pattern and do my workouts after at least some food. I’m actually surprised by how much food you can have for 500 calories!
I don’t honestly know exactly what my maintenance calories are and I don’t know how much you can trust the tdee calculators (I get a range of 1900-2500 calories for maintenance spending on which site I use) so I’m planning on trying things out for a month and then adjusting based on the trend.3 -
@sijomial thanks for the info. I will keep an eye on things then.
So far I’ve managed some long walks on my fast days and I’m going to slowly ramp up to more intense workouts over time. I think I will follow your pattern and do my workouts after at least some food. I’m actually surprised by how much food you can have for 500 calories!
I don’t honestly know exactly what my maintenance calories are and I don’t know how much you can trust the tdee calculators (I get a range of 1900-2500 calories for maintenance spending on which site I use) so I’m planning on trying things out for a month and then adjusting based on the trend.
might be able to hone in a tad quicker and avoid water weight issues (water adds weight but no calories in it of course).
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
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Im noy specialist in physiology my field is way far from this, i found those statements somewhere in a site that refers to Dr Fung a famous nephrologist. He's a world-leading expert on intermittent fasting and low carb, especially for treating people with type 2 diabet.
Those statements are correct or wrong?, im not an expert to confirm it and its not the purpose of my post and i dont want to talk about this anymore.
SO forget the last part of my post (the physiological statements) and focus on my personal experience
Thanks anyway
Not Dr Fung!!!3 -
Good timing on this @Stud47
Just review - may give extra info on extra benefits vs risks of ADF.
https://youtu.be/HaZmhuonGIs
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