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How do you feel about an Alkaline diet?
jharris10252012
Posts: 7 Member
in Debate Club
So I read that adding more alkaline-forming foods will help slow down the leech of calcium from your bones, helping maintain your bone health for years to come. Also, that it will help fight free-radical damage and inflammation while supporting healthy cellular regeneration. Is it worth the extra effort? Are you a believer?
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Replies
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I'm a big believer in people eating more fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc as these things provide a ton of awesome nutrition (vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, probiotics, etc) are consumed in pretty low quantities in what is often referred to as the SAD. I think it's definitely worth it to eat more of these things...but the notion of controlling your body's PH with food is a bunch of nonsense.
Regardless of what you eat, the human body maintains a PH balance within a very narrow range all on it's own and that can't be manipulated with food.
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My mother has silent reflux, also known as laryngopharyngeal reflux (LPR), and her upper respiratory symptoms do go away when drinking alkaline water and eating an alkaline diet.
However, despite having done this for quite some time, she does have osteoporosis.
Absent a specific medical condition like hers, I'm with cwolfman13.5 -
copied & pasted from The Renaissance Diet 2.0 (authored by Dr. Mike Israetel, Dr. Melissa Davis, Dr. Jen Case, Dr. James Hoffman, Dr. Gabrielle Fundaro, Dr. Alex Harrison, & Paul Salter MS, RD):
Alkaline/Acidic Diets
A certain class of diets proposes to bring your body’s pH into balance. On the face of it, that
sounds great, but like cleanses and detoxes, your body is already very good at regulating this. If
your blood pH is altered by as little as 0.4 (from its normal range of 7.35-7.45 pH), you will die.
For this reason the body maintains its blood acidity very tightly with a host of pH buffers. Certain
gut pH levels can affect the microbiome, but the alkalinity of food does not correlate to these
changes as they arise from byproducts of digestion. Eating alkaline foods or drinking alkaline
water will have zero impact on your gut as stomach acid will neutralize whatever small
alterations in pH might come from food pH immediately upon contact. The pH of your urine can
be altered with foods, but this is due to metabolites produced during the digestion process and
has zero impact on blood or cellular pH levels. Alkaline water and diets are essentially a scam.
There is not even a seed of truth to their claims.
13 -
What you eat doesn't help to cause a flux in regulation of your pH. A nominal shift in either direction could spell disaster. Don't buy into the hype. Like most diet plans that sound interesting, they are concocted to make a profit off unknowledgeable people looking for the "secret" to weight loss or health.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
I agree that eating somefoods probably does help with reducing osteoporosis - high calcium foods.
There is a dietary component.
Alkaline foods - No, I dont think so.3 -
If you want to maintain healthy bones, look for and follow advice of mainstream osteoporosis specialists, who are going to be tuned into the best science on this topic. I guarantee they're not going to recommend a so-called "alkaline diet". (Instead, it's going to be boring, mainstream things like overall good nutrition, getting enough calcium, getting enough vitamin D, limiting alcohol, etc.)
You'll also want to be doing strength-challenging exercise, such as weight training, throughout life, and some impact exercise may also be helpful, as long as you don't overstrain/overtrain.
I have osteoporosis, despite not having a family history of it, and despite having been overweight/obese for most of my adult life (obese people are somewhat less likely to become osteoporotic). Unfortunately, obese people are more likely to get certain types of cancer, and the one I got (at a pretty advanced stage, besides) required medical treatment (chemo & other drugs) that did a number on my bones. If I had been smarter when younger, and stayed active, at a healthy weight, and eating a nutritious diet, I would've greatly reduced the odds of both the cancer and the osteoporosis.
Give it a think. Well-rounded fitness, well-rounded mainstream nutrition, healthy body weight, give you the best odds of long-term good health. Magical diets do nothing to overcome deficiencies in fitness, nutrition, healthy weight.
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One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.13
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One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.
Tells me everything I need to know. It's a woo diet being peddled by a woo proponent.
Also, the human body has various organs to maintain your pH balance on its own. Usually, when it can't regulate it on its own, that means there is a serious problem that you need medical intervention for, not a weird diet featuring alkaline water.
Sounds an awful lot like a panacea... and all of those are snake oil being peddled by charlatans.3 -
One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.
I just love when Stephen Colbert satirizes Gwyneth Paltrow / GOOP!
(Beginning is a little NSFW.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0HCStAYMA 8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.
I just love when Stephen Colbert satirizes Gwyneth Paltrow / GOOP!
(Beginning is a little NSFW.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0HCStAYMA
I’ll just leave this here and walk away giggling to myself.
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/01/gwyneth-paltrow-goop-vagina-candle-exploded-inferno-sparks4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm a big believer in people eating more fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc as these things provide a ton of awesome nutrition (vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, probiotics, etc) are consumed in pretty low quantities in what is often referred to as the SAD. I think it's definitely worth it to eat more of these things...but the notion of controlling your body's PH with food is a bunch of nonsense.
Regardless of what you eat, the human body maintains a PH balance within a very narrow range all on it's own and that can't be manipulated with food.
Yep!!2 -
All in all it's just wasted money on some pseudoscience.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 4 -
Total woo2
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The acidic environment in the stomach is not a friendly place for food regardless of it's acidic or alkaline properties. Everything that journey's from the stomach to the intestines will be alkaline anyway and why the body regulates it.0
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One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.
Yes! The sentence "Gwyneth Paltrow is a believer in this" is all I need to hear to inform me that I DONT want to follow it.5 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.
Yes! The sentence "Gwyneth Paltrow is a believer in this" is all I need to hear to inform me that I DONT want to follow it.
Yes, the appeal to authority may be a fallacy, but I think the suspicion of quacks is pretty legit.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »One of the big proponents of the alkaline diets is Gwyneth Paltrow of GOOP. If that isn't enough to turn you off of the diet, this should. She advocates drinking alkaline water every morning, but she also advocates squeezing fresh, organic lemon juice (an acid) into the alkaline water. Know what happens when you mix an acid and a base? You get a neutral result... thus eliminating any so called benefit from drinking what is now, expensive non-alkaline lemon flavored water.
Yes! The sentence "Gwyneth Paltrow is a believer in this" is all I need to hear to inform me that I DONT want to follow it.
Yes, the appeal to authority may be a fallacy, but I think the suspicion of quacks is pretty legit.
One needs to be an actual authority for the appeal to authority fallacy to enter into this.
Which pretty much leaves Gwyneth Paltrow out of that particular logical fallacy.
Is there a “appeal to *newage” fallacy?
*rhymes with sewage.4 -
Back in around 2013, I acquired a very bad case of MRSA. Cut my foot on a shell (was swimming with sharks and stingrays in Belize and got freaked out a bit) and got a tiny red bump on my rear a few days later. Within a week, it was as large as a grapefruit and I couldn't sit down and it was on fire. Doc wanted to put me in the ICU, but I convinced him to lance it, drain it and just go home with antibiotics. Aside from dislocating my knee, definitely the most painful thing I've ever experienced. When a doc says, "this is going to really, really hurt", not a good thing.
Long story short, I ended up having to take six or seven rounds of antibiotics and it would not go away. In desperation (and a bad MRSA infection will make you very desperate), I did the Alkaline Diet. This was after reading about people having MRSA for years or even decades, never being able to get rid of it. Also, MRSA is contagious and can spread to family members. You have to be absolutely sterile when dealing with your wounds. I read that quite a few people were saying they got rid of it from doing the Alkaline Diet. So I tried it. I was off the antibiotics at that time (had been for weeks) and the MRSA went away.
Now, could it have been the antibiotics working after I was done with them? Maybe. I don't know and, quite frankly, don't care. But the MRSA, which kept reappearing on my skin, disappeared and stayed gone. When I've taken blood tests now, it's not detectable, even though they say you never quite get rid of it once you're septic (it enters the blood, which it did).
I honestly just think that not doing any carbs/sugar to feed it would have been likely a huge help.5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Back in around 2013, I acquired a very bad case of MRSA. Cut my foot on a shell (was swimming with sharks and stingrays in Belize and got freaked out a bit) and got a tiny red bump on my rear a few days later. Within a week, it was as large as a grapefruit and I couldn't sit down and it was on fire. Doc wanted to put me in the ICU, but I convinced him to lance it, drain it and just go home with antibiotics. Aside from dislocating my knee, definitely the most painful thing I've ever experienced. When a doc says, "this is going to really, really hurt", not a good thing.
Long story short, I ended up having to take six or seven rounds of antibiotics and it would not go away. In desperation (and a bad MRSA infection will make you very desperate), I did the Alkaline Diet. This was after reading about people having MRSA for years or even decades, never being able to get rid of it. Also, MRSA is contagious and can spread to family members. You have to be absolutely sterile when dealing with your wounds. I read that quite a few people were saying they got rid of it from doing the Alkaline Diet. So I tried it. I was off the antibiotics at that time (had been for weeks) and the MRSA went away.
Now, could it have been the antibiotics working after I was done with them? Maybe. I don't know and, quite frankly, don't care. But the MRSA, which kept reappearing on my skin, disappeared and stayed gone. When I've taken blood tests now, it's not detectable, even though they say you never quite get rid of it once you're septic (it enters the blood, which it did).
I honestly just think that not doing any carbs/sugar to feed it would have been likely a huge help.
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@MargaretYakoda -- I pray you never have to go through what I did. MRSA kills more people annually than AIDS. It's brutal. And as I mentioned, I was desparate and have no idea if it worked. If you comprehended that, you might not have posted such a glib response.
And, also, as I mentioned, don't care what others think. All I know is the MRSA, something that many never get rid of their entire lives, is gone and not detectable. Quite honestly, I don't mind if strangers on the internet agree or not that I did it in desperation. My ego doesn't need your approval.15 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »@MargaretYakoda -- I pray you never have to go through what I did. MRSA kills more people annually than AIDS. It's brutal. And as I mentioned, I was desparate and have no idea if it worked. If you comprehended that, you might not have posted such a glib response.
And, also, as I mentioned, don't care what others think. All I know is the MRSA, something that many never get rid of their entire lives, is gone and not detectable. Quite honestly, I don't mind if strangers on the internet agree or not that I did it in desperation. My ego doesn't need your approval.
I’m glad you no longer have MRSA.
I do know people who have had it.
But alkaline water is still hooey.
Also? All I did was post a jpg of the Wikipedia article that says it is quackery. I did not attack you personally in any way.
Again, I am glad you know longer have MRSA.
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Apparently some people are feeding their infants an alkaline diet. Mixing their own formulas. Which isn’t the best idea.
To put it mildly.
https://www.insider.com/alkaline-diet-babies-homemade-formula-hospitalized-rickets-2021-8?amp3 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Apparently some people are feeding their infants an alkaline diet. Mixing their own formulas. Which isn’t the best idea.
To put it mildly.
https://www.insider.com/alkaline-diet-babies-homemade-formula-hospitalized-rickets-2021-8?amp
That's very sad.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Back in around 2013, I acquired a very bad case of MRSA. Cut my foot on a shell (was swimming with sharks and stingrays in Belize and got freaked out a bit) and got a tiny red bump on my rear a few days later. Within a week, it was as large as a grapefruit and I couldn't sit down and it was on fire. Doc wanted to put me in the ICU, but I convinced him to lance it, drain it and just go home with antibiotics. Aside from dislocating my knee, definitely the most painful thing I've ever experienced. When a doc says, "this is going to really, really hurt", not a good thing.
Long story short, I ended up having to take six or seven rounds of antibiotics and it would not go away. In desperation (and a bad MRSA infection will make you very desperate), I did the Alkaline Diet. This was after reading about people having MRSA for years or even decades, never being able to get rid of it. Also, MRSA is contagious and can spread to family members. You have to be absolutely sterile when dealing with your wounds. I read that quite a few people were saying they got rid of it from doing the Alkaline Diet. So I tried it. I was off the antibiotics at that time (had been for weeks) and the MRSA went away.
Now, could it have been the antibiotics working after I was done with them? Maybe. I don't know and, quite frankly, don't care. But the MRSA, which kept reappearing on my skin, disappeared and stayed gone. When I've taken blood tests now, it's not detectable, even though they say you never quite get rid of it once you're septic (it enters the blood, which it did).
I honestly just think that not doing any carbs/sugar to feed it would have been likely a huge help.
The "something worked; not sure what" resonates with me - as of last December I'd been dealing with golfer's elbow for two years, and had tried massage, acupuncture, and physical therapy (which included Graston, laser, topical dexamethasone, and exercises to do at home which I did religiously.) Then we had a spike in the coronavirus and I stopped going to PT, but I did start doing a lot of downward dog, and low and behold, the pain went away! While it could have been time plus everything else, I do strongly suspect that the downward dog in that point of my recovery was quite helpful.
Do you have a theory as to why the Alkaline Diet helped? Or did you say that here and I didn't understand it because this is different from my mom's plan to control her silent reflux?I honestly just think that not doing any carbs/sugar to feed it would have been likely a huge help.
I have read (in a book so I do not have the reference handy) that spikes in sugar intake depresses the immune system, so yes, I can see how reducing that could help in your case.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »@MargaretYakoda -- I pray you never have to go through what I did. MRSA kills more people annually than AIDS. It's brutal. And as I mentioned, I was desparate and have no idea if it worked. If you comprehended that, you might not have posted such a glib response.
And, also, as I mentioned, don't care what others think. All I know is the MRSA, something that many never get rid of their entire lives, is gone and not detectable. Quite honestly, I don't mind if strangers on the internet agree or not that I did it in desperation. My ego doesn't need your approval.
My dad was one of those who never got rid of MRSA. Hospitalized on average 3 times a year for a week to 10 days while taking antibiotics. For many,many years.
I’m really glad for you that yours is hopefully gone!6 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »@MargaretYakoda -- I pray you never have to go through what I did. MRSA kills more people annually than AIDS. It's brutal. And as I mentioned, I was desparate and have no idea if it worked. If you comprehended that, you might not have posted such a glib response.
And, also, as I mentioned, don't care what others think. All I know is the MRSA, something that many never get rid of their entire lives, is gone and not detectable. Quite honestly, I don't mind if strangers on the internet agree or not that I did it in desperation. My ego doesn't need your approval.
I’m glad you no longer have MRSA.
I do know people who have had it.
But alkaline water is still hooey.
Also? All I did was post a jpg of the Wikipedia article that says it is quackery. I did not attack you personally in any way.
Again, I am glad you know longer have MRSA.
You and I agree the Alkaline part is complete BS. Here's a good article by MD Anderson (the top Cancer Center in the US). They have another one that basically says, "It's Hooey...". But this one, in particular, states my view of it a lot better.
I know you didn't attack me, but your entire response was assuming I believe that the Alkaline Diet changes your pH. Honestly, I know a lot more about body chemistry and health, in general, now than I did then. But I never claimed that pH could be changed and you were responding in a way that I had somehow definitively stated that.
https://www.mdanderson.org/publications/focused-on-health/the-alkaline-diet--what-you-need-to-know.h18-1592202.html
I guess is what I'm saying is that no matter what health condition you have, eating a much healthier diet, especially one that leans toward The Blue Zone or Mediterranean Diet, will assist you in getting healthy. I think in my case, just eliminating the sugar went a long way.3 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »@MargaretYakoda -- I pray you never have to go through what I did. MRSA kills more people annually than AIDS. It's brutal. And as I mentioned, I was desparate and have no idea if it worked. If you comprehended that, you might not have posted such a glib response.
And, also, as I mentioned, don't care what others think. All I know is the MRSA, something that many never get rid of their entire lives, is gone and not detectable. Quite honestly, I don't mind if strangers on the internet agree or not that I did it in desperation. My ego doesn't need your approval.
My dad was one of those who never got rid of MRSA. Hospitalized on average 3 times a year for a week to 10 days while taking antibiotics. For many,many years.
I’m really glad for you that yours is hopefully gone!
I'm so sorry to hear that. It's a terrible thing if you can't get rid of it and so, so discouraging when you know that antibiotics destroy your microbiome/immune system. And you just keep taking round after round and praying that no signs of it come back. And then it does.
And not only that, it's contagious. So you also worry you will spread it to your family. Just a horrid condition.
I hope he's better now or at peace.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Back in around 2013, I acquired a very bad case of MRSA. Cut my foot on a shell (was swimming with sharks and stingrays in Belize and got freaked out a bit) and got a tiny red bump on my rear a few days later. Within a week, it was as large as a grapefruit and I couldn't sit down and it was on fire. Doc wanted to put me in the ICU, but I convinced him to lance it, drain it and just go home with antibiotics. Aside from dislocating my knee, definitely the most painful thing I've ever experienced. When a doc says, "this is going to really, really hurt", not a good thing.
Long story short, I ended up having to take six or seven rounds of antibiotics and it would not go away. In desperation (and a bad MRSA infection will make you very desperate), I did the Alkaline Diet. This was after reading about people having MRSA for years or even decades, never being able to get rid of it. Also, MRSA is contagious and can spread to family members. You have to be absolutely sterile when dealing with your wounds. I read that quite a few people were saying they got rid of it from doing the Alkaline Diet. So I tried it. I was off the antibiotics at that time (had been for weeks) and the MRSA went away.
Now, could it have been the antibiotics working after I was done with them? Maybe. I don't know and, quite frankly, don't care. But the MRSA, which kept reappearing on my skin, disappeared and stayed gone. When I've taken blood tests now, it's not detectable, even though they say you never quite get rid of it once you're septic (it enters the blood, which it did).
I honestly just think that not doing any carbs/sugar to feed it would have been likely a huge help.
The "something worked; not sure what" resonates with me - as of last December I'd been dealing with golfer's elbow for two years, and had tried massage, acupuncture, and physical therapy (which included Graston, laser, topical dexamethasone, and exercises to do at home which I did religiously.) Then we had a spike in the coronavirus and I stopped going to PT, but I did start doing a lot of downward dog, and low and behold, the pain went away! While it could have been time plus everything else, I do strongly suspect that the downward dog in that point of my recovery was quite helpful.
Do you have a theory as to why the Alkaline Diet helped? Or did you say that here and I didn't understand it because this is different from my mom's plan to control her silent reflux?I honestly just think that not doing any carbs/sugar to feed it would have been likely a huge help.
I have read (in a book so I do not have the reference handy) that spikes in sugar intake depresses the immune system, so yes, I can see how reducing that could help in your case.
I'm not a scientist or even smart enough to understand all the science. But after my wife got ill years ago with Fibromyalgia, I took such a great interest in helping her, that I learned enough to be dangerous about R&D and the Microbiome community.
And as a technical recruiter that works, in large part of my practice, with startup companies (I've helped well over 20 highly disruptive tech startups, some with over $1B valuations now), I talk with drug discovery experts all the time (very narrow focus on Microbiome Therapeutics & R&D). What I can tell you is that -- we don't know what we don't know yet. Many times, Conventional Medicine and drug proponents call "hooey" too soon on actionable holistic methodologies, including nutrition or supplements, because they can't be scientifically proven.
Here's the thing. Until rapid DNA testing came about and more powerful microscopes, along with Machine Learning, drug discovery itself was pretty much a shot in the dark. Trial and error. One large pharmaceutical CEO admitted as much on record.
My wife is in remission from Fibromyalgia. I remember talking to a family friend, a pretty famous surgeon that is a top medical exec for a professional sports team about it (we were there for an orthopedic concern, he's a surgeon too). He asked about her Fibromyalgia and we said, it's pretty much better now thanks to an Integrative doctor and our own changes. He pretty much said, "well, whatever you want to think...", and insulted how she healed.
Many Doctors and Scientists alike (not all but some) are arrogant and dismissive about what they don't understand. And the data that the scientific community are collecting right now is so immense that it will take years to unravel it all. It's further complicated by adding in the variables. If you just imagine how complex it is to understand how just one thing added to the diet, with trillions of possible combinations, effects the human body. That's so hard to prove. So most of the time, it's mouse studies or correlational at best. Because that's the only way to control long term results in experiments.
We are just beginning to understand human biology, in my honest opinion. We used to practice medicine as if the human body was a vacuum. It's not. Even in medical schools, fortunately now, they are teaching a Holistic view of the human condition -- where genetics, the microbiome, environment all influence how individuals will respond to drugs.
Talking to some small startup CEOs, as well as Scientists, it's also clear to me that nearly all believe that nearly any condition could be improved by better nutrition, toxin avoidance and exercise. Here's the kicker. They also believe that you can't change human behavior and that the refusal for most to change brings necessity to give them a pill or therapy. So much of the drug discovery going on is to create metabolites or prebiotics, strong enough to give someone a pill to improve their condition. Or precise drugs to match our current state with an analysis of the current immune system. Or improving that condition prior to drug interactions.
I guess what I'm saying is stuff works from time to time. If it does, go with it. That's actually the entire premise of Functional Medicine. Many times the science will catch up and prove why it worked years later.5
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