Metabolism not affected by middle age!

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  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,343 Member
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    🤣🤣 @mph323 what did you say about kale to offend someone?!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    I think in popular culture (and often on here) metabolism is confused with TDEE.

    Personal example:
    In my 30's my metabolism went up as I got heavier (fat!), my TDEE went down (injury, career, children....).
    In my 40's my metabolism stayed the same level (maintained weight, too heavy though). TDEE pretty static.
    In my 50's my metabolism went down (lost weight) but my TDEE went up (took up cycling, more "me time").
    In my 60's my metabolism seems to be the same, TDEE has gone up even more as I'm more active (retired allows me to be more active, higher exercise volume).

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head @sijomial. People often say metabolism when they actually mean TDEE - maybe we need a thread on the different phrases to help people? There’s so much rubbish out there about slowing metabolisms / thyroid issues / “nothing I can do” and it’s not fair on people who want to make a difference. (And before anyone jumps on me - yes I know thyroids etc can affect weight but the majority of people don’t have thyroid issues! And as someone who had endocrine cancer I have firsthand experience of the effects hormones have on physical and mental well-being, so I am in no way dissing anyone’s personal experience.)

    The definitions of terms are covered in various posts in "Most Helpful Posts".

    Lots of terms are in this:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069278/acronyms-and-terms-for-new-mfp-members-v-6/p1

    More clearly about the BMR/TDEE topic, or more in-depth (and these are just a couple, there are others):

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/931670/bmr-and-tdee-explained-for-those-needing-a-guide/p1
    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/975025/in-place-of-a-road-map-short-n-sweet/p1

    Plus BMR/RMR, TDEE, and NEAT are defined more briefly in quite a few various other Most Helpful Posts, where relevant. I'll use one of mine as an example:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1

    The Most Helpful Posts (a.k.a. "stickies") are pretty great, in general, IMO. The problem is that most people (?) don't read them. In welcoming new folks, or on "give me your tips" threads, I often recommend that new MFP-ers read them.

    BTW, there's also an amazingly good thread on thyroid specifically, by an actual real life expert:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10767046/hypothyroidism-and-weight-management
  • callsitlikeiseeit
    callsitlikeiseeit Posts: 8,627 Member
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    🤣🤣 @mph323 what did you say about kale to offend someone?!

    maybe someone actually likes it????????? :D
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,565 Member
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    claireychn074 wrote: »
    🤣🤣 @mph323 what did you say about kale to offend someone?!

    Oh, my bad, it was cilantro. "Cilantro tastes like soap." Apparently I forgot to add "LOL" :D
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,902 Member
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    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Along these lines, when I was 30 I was told my neurological issues were due to aging. Turned out I worked in a building with toxic mold and many of the symptoms went away when I stopped going to work.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
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    lorib642 wrote: »
    Bad news it is downhill after 60, but great that metabolism does not slow earlier.

    No, the news is that it's the case in a statistical sense, and one of the researchers' points seems to be that it's not a slow decline starting early as many people think, but rather inflection points in the rate of change at some point(s), kind of a pattern of very little change followed by a bigger change over a shorter timespan.

    Even within the statistics, there will be a distribution of individual experiences, some people hitting an inflection point when younger, some when older; and it seems likely that the magnitude of that inflection could differ individually, too. Since I don't have a way to access the full text, I can't see the relevant statistics (like standard deviations, probability values for conclusions, etc.).

    Note also, in the abstract,
    Total expenditure increased with fat-free mass in a power-law manner, with four distinct life stages.

    . . . which has implications for actual, practical TDEE in individuals, even when BMR declines. What one does to influence muscle mass in 20s, 40s, 60s and beyond can affect TDEE, and to some extent probably do so through BMR, because their statistical analysis seems to have adjusted for fat-free mass.

    Each of us is going to have an individual experience, not necessarily a statistically average one. Just based on the abstract, the study suggests that we'll see an age-related decline in BMR someday, even at constant fat-free mass. We may have an average decline at the average time, or something else, as individuals.

    I'd personally bet that the two big influences on the age at which that decline happens, in an individual, are (1) genetics, and (2) personal health practices of many types over one's lifespan.

    More research may give more information about (2), but I think we already have some decent research-based hints, in what affects things like telomeres, mitochondria, etc., that are being considered as markers of aging. Much of that research is in infancy, too, IMU, though I'm far from expert, just an interested amateur.

    If those of you who *can* see the full text see things there that suggest different inferences, please comment.
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,365 Member
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    psychod787 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Not sure what your knowledge of "joint replacement" is, but those things have a lifespan. Sometimes, the providers are only able to replace it once. After that, when the joint wears out, you are S.O.L. Humans are like a truck. Like trucks, we have a load capacity. While you can drive a truck, that has a 2000lb capacity, with a load of 3000lbs, and it runs fine for a while. The struts, springs, and chaise, wear out much faster. Unlike trucks, we just don't have OEM parts laying around in a warehouse.

    ** edit ** Providers still have to take into account of the person's overall health, before they consent to do sx. While we live in a age when sx is safer, there is always a risk of injury or death when dealing with sx.

    Yes, I've heard about 10 years for an artificial joint. First woman didn't need a replacement, however, she just barely qualified for a repair of some ligament or tendon issue. I'm 57 and apparently past the age where I would be eligible for some orthopedic surgeries, which is probably why I'm stuck with the hip problem... there's no use investigating it because it won't get fixed anyway.

    Point being that some older people don't have a decline in activity (and metabolism) by choice, and sometimes the remedy is unavailable because of their age.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
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    ythannah wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Not sure what your knowledge of "joint replacement" is, but those things have a lifespan. Sometimes, the providers are only able to replace it once. After that, when the joint wears out, you are S.O.L. Humans are like a truck. Like trucks, we have a load capacity. While you can drive a truck, that has a 2000lb capacity, with a load of 3000lbs, and it runs fine for a while. The struts, springs, and chaise, wear out much faster. Unlike trucks, we just don't have OEM parts laying around in a warehouse.

    ** edit ** Providers still have to take into account of the person's overall health, before they consent to do sx. While we live in a age when sx is safer, there is always a risk of injury or death when dealing with sx.

    Yes, I've heard about 10 years for an artificial joint. First woman didn't need a replacement, however, she just barely qualified for a repair of some ligament or tendon issue. I'm 57 and apparently past the age where I would be eligible for some orthopedic surgeries, which is probably why I'm stuck with the hip problem... there's no use investigating it because it won't get fixed anyway.

    Point being that some older people don't have a decline in activity (and metabolism) by choice, and sometimes the remedy is unavailable because of their age.

    I wonder if the rules/guidelines differ for ortho surgeries in different places?

    Reason for wondering: I didn't read back to see if you'd been specific about your hip problem, but I've had numerous friends over 57 who've had various ortho surgeries, including a woman who had a hip replacement at 75 and was back rowing a boat (a leg sport) 30 days to the day later (she's physically amazing, though); her husband of the same age who's had 3 hip replacements in a short time (he kept dislocating one via his exercise routine, so the doctor replaced it with a more robust model!) and I think at least one knee replacement; another friend who had a joint replaced after 65 despite obesity, diabetes and some other risk factors; and yet another friend with bone necrosis consequent to high-dose chemo who's had both shoulders surgically repaired, plus a hip, all after age 60.

    IOW, ortho surgeries of some fairly major types seem common here for diverse people. Personally, I'm in (technical) need of knee surgery, maybe just some tissue clean-up first but eventually probably knee replacement(s), but was told I wasn't burning any bridges if I deferred surgery (to pain tolerance) because of the useful life of joint replacement technology (I'm 65 now, no time/age limit was suggested).

    I've known people who were turned down for ortho surgery, but it was a matter of individual risk factors, i.e., their health status made surgery a risk, with less promise for quality-of-life improvement even if the you /recovery went OK. (I'm *not* implying that's the judgement your doctors are making; I'm just painting a picture of what seems to be common practice here.)
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
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    psychod787 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Not sure what your knowledge of "joint replacement" is, but those things have a lifespan. Sometimes, the providers are only able to replace it once. After that, when the joint wears out, you are S.O.L. Humans are like a truck. Like trucks, we have a load capacity. While you can drive a truck, that has a 2000lb capacity, with a load of 3000lbs, and it runs fine for a while. The struts, springs, and chaise, wear out much faster. Unlike trucks, we just don't have OEM parts laying around in a warehouse.

    ** edit ** Providers still have to take into account of the person's overall health, before they consent to do sx. While we live in a age when sx is safer, there is always a risk of injury or death when dealing with sx.

    I hope I can get more than one knee replacement - I need one soon and I am only 56. :smile: Hoping dropping a few pounds will buy me a few more years before the pain become unbearable.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
    edited August 2021
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    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Could I ask where you are located (going to guess England due to the use of term "mum" but want to be sure). Sorry jus saw above you're in Canada.

    Here in Illinois USA, our neighbor had both knees replaced at the same time a few years back. He was 74 at the time.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,454 Member
    edited August 2021
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    ythannah wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Not sure what your knowledge of "joint replacement" is, but those things have a lifespan. Sometimes, the providers are only able to replace it once. After that, when the joint wears out, you are S.O.L. Humans are like a truck. Like trucks, we have a load capacity. While you can drive a truck, that has a 2000lb capacity, with a load of 3000lbs, and it runs fine for a while. The struts, springs, and chaise, wear out much faster. Unlike trucks, we just don't have OEM parts laying around in a warehouse.

    ** edit ** Providers still have to take into account of the person's overall health, before they consent to do sx. While we live in a age when sx is safer, there is always a risk of injury or death when dealing with sx.

    Yes, I've heard about 10 years for an artificial joint. First woman didn't need a replacement, however, she just barely qualified for a repair of some ligament or tendon issue. I'm 57 and apparently past the age where I would be eligible for some orthopedic surgeries, which is probably why I'm stuck with the hip problem... there's no use investigating it because it won't get fixed anyway.

    Point being that some older people don't have a decline in activity (and metabolism) by choice, and sometimes the remedy is unavailable because of their age.

    Friend got his second set of artificial hips at age 60. The original set of artificial hips lasted 30 years.
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,365 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Could I ask where you are located (going to guess England due to the use of term "mum" but want to be sure). Sorry jus saw above you're in Canada.

    Here in Illinois USA, our neighbor had both knees replaced at the same time a few years back. He was 74 at the time.

    I'm a transplanted Brit (UK born), thus the use of mum.

    I'm just trying to get some half decent assessment and diagnosis for my hip BEFORE it gets to the point of needing replacement. :s Although my game plan at this point is just to grit my teeth and maintain my normal level of activity despite the pain.
  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
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    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    I'm going to put some of the blame on the medical profession here too. There seems to be a degree of acceptance that breaking down is a natural result of ageing and very little interest in restoring function.

    A coworker was told by her orthopedic surgeon that it was a good thing she was only 47 because if she was over 50 she wouldn't get the knee repair surgery (and I don't remember now exactly what it was) she needed.

    A friend's mum hobbled around on two broken knees for TEN YEARS before she was granted replacements.

    Another coworker had bad hip pain for several years that got brushed off repeatedly, she was finally referred to a pain clinic to "manage" her pain. The doctor there ordered an MRI and discovered bone necrosis, she needed an emergency hip replacement.

    I've got my own hip pain tale of medical woe.

    Here at least the prevailing attitude seems to be "well you're old, live with it" without much recognition of the restrictions to activity that "living with it" carries, and the compounded deterioration.

    Could I ask where you are located (going to guess England due to the use of term "mum" but want to be sure). Sorry jus saw above you're in Canada.

    Here in Illinois USA, our neighbor had both knees replaced at the same time a few years back. He was 74 at the time.

    You can definitely get joint replacement surgery in Canada as a senior into your 70s and even 80s. I think that ythannah is talking about various other orthopedic surgeries besides actual replacements.

    I know when my husband tore his distal biceps tendon when he was 48 they waffled about fixing it or not (he did get it done.) They expect that if you are older you should just accept the 25% loss of strength that comes with that particular injury.

    When I went to the hospital knee clinic for my arthritis they told me they wouldn't give me a cortisone shot because they want to delay any treatment as long as possible, because once you start with cortisone, then you have to next move up the "treatment ladder", and you eventually run out of options.
  • Speakeasy76
    Speakeasy76 Posts: 961 Member
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    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ljashley1952 wrote: »
    It might not have anything to do with metabolism, but people do slow down with age. Some of it is just being busy with your life and not making time to work out regularly. Some people get arthritis and other things that make working out painful. Back injuries, asthma...whatever. While these are not all good excuses, it is reality. It is up to us to maintain our health: eat properly, exercise regularly. We can do it!
    Wear and tear on cartilage is usually from NOT having a physical fitness regimen. Instead of your muscles holding you up because of minimal activity, it ends up putting all load on the joints. And that intern helps to cause arthritis and other joint pain issues. Also, you get to CHOOSE the life you wish to lead. It's just a matter of what's a priority to you. For me physical fitness dominates so many things that others hold important (like socializing, jobs that are high paying, etc.). What I find funny is that people will pay any amount to not be in pain, but many times won't physically work on it FOR FREE with just some spare time.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    I have more chronic pain (muscle and joint) issues at age 44 than my my mom does at age 74, despite the fact that I am more physically active and have made regular exercise and strength training a priority for several years. I've been in PT about 4 times for various issues, and do the exercises prescribed in addition to my regular strength training. My mom has never had a long-lasting exercise regimen (and also has never really struggled with her weight). She even was diagnosed with osteoporosis in her 50's. She fell and hurt her back about 3 years ago, and it dawned on me then that she has never really struggled with back problems like I have. I already have signs of arthritis in multiple joints. My dad had already 2 major knee surgeries when he was a few years older than me, despite never being obese and maybe overweight at certain times (but not by much), but being more prone to joint/muscle issues.

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