Very confused about how many calories I should eat to get in shape - can anyone help?

melissab287

Hi guys, I'm a 27 year old woman at 65KGs (heaviest I've ever been after being sick last year and getting out of shape). I want to lose fat and weight, and get back to how I used to be (56-58kg, 18% BF), and also gain more muscle again (which I might do after my weight is down!).

Before I got into fitness, I used to be very skinny (48-49KG) - then I started weightlifting and bulking, which made me feel great and full of energy. I would eat around 2100-2200 calories when bulking and going to the gym 3 x a week, lifting 100KG, etc. I have never cut before so I don't really know what I'm doing!

Nowadays I do quite light weightlifting (lifting 20-40KG), which I TRY to do about 3 times a week (70 mins), and HIIT training (YouTube videos) on the other days. I cut my calories down to 1700 for the past 2 months, combined with my new exercise routine, but I have lost no weight. The past 2-3 weeks I cut down even more to 1600 but have noticed no change (apart from feeling very hungry and miserable all the time, going to bed hungry, etc). This is the first time I'm really cutting, and I'm finding it really hard.

I'm tracking everything I eat and drink on MyFitnessPal, and I don't eat back any calories I burn.
I calculated my BMR to be 1450 cals, but all of the TDEEs say I should be eating 1200 calories to lose weight. I put myself down as sedentary as some days I won't be able to exercise at all (I have hEDs and fibromyalgia, so it all depends on what my body can do on the day). I only average about 1400 steps per day, too. My exercise/weightlifting etc is very irregular because of my conditions, which is difficult. Recently, I've had very low energy levels too, which is making it hard for me to workout. I also can't up my weights at the gym as I feel too weak :-(

My main question is: should I cut my food intake down to below my basal metabolic rate, to 1200 calories or below, like the TDEE tells me to?

If anyone else can offer me advice on what I'm doing wrong, I'd really appreciate it! I just want to get back in shape lol I keep getting conflicting advice and it's really confusing! I feel like I shouldn't be hungry AND not lose weight at the same time, so I must be doing something wrong

PAV8888

Your weight is a trend, especially as a woman who could have water retention because of many reasons not related to fat changes. Use a weight trend app and consider 4-6 week periods before you decide whether you've gained or lost.

65 to 58 is not a huge amount even though it sounds huge and probably feels huge to you. Your height is not stated so not sure where you fall in the normal weight to mid overweight category; but unless you're well above mid overweight towards obese I would seriously consider whether a hard and large deficit is a good idea.

If your eating levels are compromising your ability to workout you already have the answer as to whether they make sense. Even if you would like to be the perfect weight tomorrow, time is actually the one factor that is more maleable than your body.

Finesse, not hammering. you may want to establish for yourself a slow yet meaningful direction towards where you want to be and drift towards there as opposed to starving yourself into submission like you sound as if you're doing/trying to do.

There may be weight water/retention issues associated with your health conditions. Not sure if you're potentially taking medications that may also be affecting your weight/water weight.

I would be more worried about how sedentary you are at your fairly young age. 1400, not 14,000 steps is what I see above? That is well under the realm of even being on your feet for half an hour a day. Are your health conditions allowing you mobility?

I would be very tempted to start working on that before the rest of it even as it affects/can affect your health even more than finding yourself just slightly above normal weight.

I mean if you get up and walk around for 3 minutes every hour you will be hitting more than 1400 steps a day. So I do hope that it is a typo, though in thinking back to my pre-MFP days and I've certainly had my share of sub 1500 step days when I would only get up from the couch or chair to drive to the drive through.

Movement doesn't always have to be exercise nor does it have to be particularly vigorous and tiring in order to be cumulatively effective. It's worth a try if health allows.

I would advocate a cut of no more than 20% of REAL ACTUAL TDEE. Real actual TDEE is not known so a start of aiming for no more than a 500 Cal cut given uncertainties and figuring out how to log probably makes sense to start and then adjusting based on weight TREND OVER SUFFICIENT TIME results.

Hopefully others will pitch in with other/more advice

kshama2001

It's 1200 calories to lose weight fast, and with only 7 kg (15.4) pounds, fast is not a desirable goal.



You've probably got some water retention going on, and are losing fat, but the water weight is masking it on the scale.

I GAINED seven pounds when I started weightlifting again. Took a few weeks to come off.

I'm seeing some of this in your post:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dietary-restraint-and-cortisol-levels-research-review.html/

...a group of women who scored higher on dietary restraint scores showed elevated baseline cortisol levels. By itself this might not be problematic, but as often as not, these types of dieters are drawn to extreme approaches to dieting.

They throw in a lot of intense exercise, try to cut calories very hard (and this often backfires if disinhibition is high; when these folks break they break) and cortisol levels go through the roof. That often causes cortisol mediated water retention (there are other mechanisms for this, mind you, leptin actually inhibits cortisol release and as it drops on a diet, cortisol levels go up further). Weight and fat loss appear to have stopped or at least slowed significantly. This is compounded even further in female dieters due to the vagaries of their menstrual cycle where water balance is changing enormously week to week anyhow.

And invariably, this type of psychology responds to the stall by going even harder. They attempt to cut calories harder, they start doing more activity. The cycle continues and gets worse. Harder dieting means more cortisol means more water retention means more dieting. Which backfires (other problems come in the long-term with this approach but you’ll have to wait for the book to read about that).

When what they should do is take a day or two off (even one day off from training, at least in men, lets cortisol drop significantly). Raise calories, especially from carbohydrates. This helps cortisol to drop. More than that they need to find a way to freaking chill out. Meditation, yoga, get a massage... Get in the bath, candles, a little Enya, a glass of wine, have some you-time but please just chill.

justanotherloser007

Your height is important agreed. I went from extremely active at 21 to chronically ill overnight, and I was absolutely upset about my lack of calories. You may have to look at nutrition differently if you are still hungry all the time, and I am talking bout fruits and veggies. lean meats, how are your oils? Since you are ill, these become critical - and when I was younger, I didn't take them as seriously as I needed to for my new sick self. Examine what you eat, and definitely include your height.

sijomial

"My main question is: should I cut my food intake down to below my basal metabolic rate, to 1200 calories or below, like the TDEE tells me to?"

Neither I would suggest.
BMR estimations are only useful for two things:

• As starting base to which needs to be added the rest of your calorie needs.
• If you are totally immobile in bed.

With an irregular exercise routine the MyFitnessPal method of accounting for exercise makes far more sense for you.
The TDEE calculations should be including an average amount for your exercise but working out your actual average TDEE is going to be very difficult for you.

Would suggest you complete the MyFitnessPal set up, sedentary activity setting seems to fit for you (it's nothing to do with your exercise on here), pick a modest rate of loss (not much weight to lose and also having health problems) and then add a reasonable estimate on the day for your exercise.

What you appear to be doing wrong is attempting to rush your weight loss, low energy levels when you have cut a load of energy out of your food intake isn't surprising.
Best advice when stuck in a hole - stop digging!

melissab287

Hi everyone! I’m travelling rn so I can’t reply to everyone yet (I’ll do that tonight - thank you so much for all the replies, I really appreciate it). I just wanted to quickly add in my height - I’m just over 5’7.

I’m pretty embarrassed to say that my disabilities do prevent me from walking as I have a lot of hypermobility in my legs, knee pain, and I fatigue very, very easily. I also have POTs which makes walking a bit tricky. But I definitely want to try to improve this, though, and I’ll ask my occupational therapist what I can aim for. Even at my best (before I had COVID) I could just about manage 10k steps but I would crash the next couple of days - Ehlers Danlos syndrome is no joke! I do more than get up from the couch but I am studying a lot so I am stuck to my desk quite often

Also interesting that people have mentioned water retention etc - as I have also had an ovarian cyst burst a month or so ago, and was told I have a moderate amount of fluid in my “pouch of Douglas” but I’m not sure how heavy that is, I just have to wait for my body to absorb it I think

westrich20940

So...even if you use a TDEE calculator and use 'sedentary' as your lifestyle....it gives an estimate of ~1900 cals/day for your TDEE.

So if you want to lose weight....I would manually set your calorie goal in MFP to something like... 16/1700/day. That will put you at a slight deficit to lose weight in a manageable/consistent (but maybe slow) way.

The way MFP and a TDEE calculator calculate your daily calorie goal is different but I don't get bogged down in that bc if you have a way to calculate an estimate of your calorie burn for workouts, relatively accurately....you can log your workout in MFP. It will then give you those calories back --- and I would suggest eating back 50-100% of those calories depending on how hungry you are. You do not need to be going to bed hungry.

I don't know if that seems more confusing to you - and I know others will say that this isn't the 'right' way to use these calculations but it's the way that made the most sense in my head. While I was losing weight I simply used my TDEE (with sedentary chosen), subtracted like 200 cals from that, used that as my calorie goal, logged my exercise and ate at least some of those cals back (especially if I was hungry). Now that I'm in more maintenance I plan to slowly just include my activity level more accurately in my TDEE and use that method more accurately.

westrich20940

westrich20940 wrote: »

So...even if you use a TDEE calculator and use 'sedentary' as your lifestyle....it gives an estimate of ~1900 cals/day for your TDEE.

So if you want to lose weight....I would manually set your calorie goal in MFP to something like... 16/1700/day. That will put you at a slight deficit to lose weight in a manageable/consistent (but maybe slow) way.

The way MFP and a TDEE calculator calculate your daily calorie goal is different but I don't get bogged down in that bc if you have a way to calculate an estimate of your calorie burn for workouts, relatively accurately....you can log your workout in MFP. It will then give you those calories back --- and I would suggest eating back 50-100% of those calories depending on how hungry you are. You do not need to be going to bed hungry.

I don't know if that seems more confusing to you - and I know others will say that this isn't the 'right' way to use these calculations but it's the way that made the most sense in my head. While I was losing weight I simply used my TDEE (with sedentary chosen), subtracted like 200 cals from that, used that as my calorie goal, logged my exercise and ate at least some of those cals back (especially if I was hungry). Now that I'm in more maintenance I plan to slowly just include my activity level more accurately in my TDEE and use that method more accurately.

I don't know how to fix it but the only part I meant to be bolded was the part about eating back 50-100% of your exercise calories. Especially if you are incorporating strength training and a lot of cardio...your body needs fuel to do those things. And make sure to get good rest/sleep.
****Also editing because I left the sex category as Male before...your TDEE (sedentary) is actually ~1700cals/day. Sorry!

PAV8888

So.... you may want to go back and check in terms of goal setting as to why you are wanting to lose weight, i.e. what you're trying to accomplish. And then look into which methods may be suitable for you to accomplish your goals.

--You've been sick recently.
--You may have water retention that make your weight number appear higher.
--You have some health challenges that you need to manage
--Your weight gain is not excessive yet you're self prescribing drastic diets suitable for massive corrections.
-- While, being in the MIDDLE OF NORMAL BMI AT ABOUT a BMI of 22

While not conclusive, a BMI of 22 is an extremely strong indication that you probably don't have large amounts of fat reserves impacting your health... so:
-- hard cuts and eating at BMR and creating 30-50% deficits are probably *highly* contra-indicated.
--Instead of immediately focusing on weight loss I would urge you to discuss with doctor/registered dietician/physical therapist/health team goals that may better help you manage your various conditions.

Could it be strength training? Could it be some type of cardio conditioning that you can perform in spite of your current physical limitations? Could it be that your health team DO think you **should** lose weight in spite of this random internet stranger's take that at BMI 22 your benefits from achieving a loss would be marginal while possible side-effects have the potential to exceed the benefits you will see?

Here is a generic assessment of people who are slightly less tall than you and weigh the same as you at your current age:
https://www.smartbmicalculator.com/result.html?unit=3&hf=5&hi=7&wk=65&us=1&ua=27&ue=0&gk=

This is a generic assessment of people who are slightly less tall than you and weigh the same as you did a year ago at your then current age.
https://www.smartbmicalculator.com/result.html?unit=3&hf=5&hi=7&wk=56&us=1&ua=26&ue=0&gk=

From the internet stranger's perspective weight loss would not be a primary goal... re-composition and maximizing health within limitations would probably be a much more interesting thing to explore perhaps?!?!!?!

PAV8888

The actual title you chose for your OP is actually quite illuminating before we/I got into the details of your post and the various numbers.

"how many calories I should eat to get in shape"

Since in your particular case "getting in shape" may NOT be primarily associated with losing substantial fat reserves since you probably don't have them, eating very close to maintenance will probably give you the energy you need to get in shape... once you've figured out the best combinations of activities for your needs.

silken555

Are you measuring yourself as well as weighing yourself? Measuring yourself is a very good indication of loss in conjunction with weigh-ins. You should also only be weighing & measuring once a week at around the same time in the morning, after going to the bathroom.

Because of your mobility issues, I would actually suggest water fitness. Auquafit, aquazumba et al are EXCELLENT forms of exercise for people like us who suffer with illnesses that affect how we move. Weight training can actuallt exacerbate things like Fibromyalgia, so definitely talk to your OT about it.

Good luck to you! I've been there & I understand how you're feeling.

kshama2001

melissab287 wrote: »

Hi everyone! I’m travelling rn so I can’t reply to everyone yet (I’ll do that tonight - thank you so much for all the replies, I really appreciate it). I just wanted to quickly add in my height - I’m just over 5’7.

I’m pretty embarrassed to say that my disabilities do prevent me from walking as I have a lot of hypermobility in my legs, knee pain, and I fatigue very, very easily. I also have POTs which makes walking a bit tricky. But I definitely want to try to improve this, though, and I’ll ask my occupational therapist what I can aim for. Even at my best (before I had COVID) I could just about manage 10k steps but I would crash the next couple of days - Ehlers Danlos syndrome is no joke! I do more than get up from the couch but I am studying a lot so I am stuck to my desk quite often

Also interesting that people have mentioned water retention etc - as I have also had an ovarian cyst burst a month or so ago, and was told I have a moderate amount of fluid in my “pouch of Douglas” but I’m not sure how heavy that is, I just have to wait for my body to absorb it I think

At 5'7" and 143 pounds, I suggest body recomposition rather than weight loss. Can your OT help you with a program you can do?

https://www.hellomagazine.com/healthandbeauty/2016072756018/fitness-blogger-kelsey-wells-shows-weight-doesnt-matter/

melissab287

Thank you very much everyone for your replies! I really appreciate all of your help

I do get the body recomposition, and the photos are helpful to see. At one point, I was cycling to the gym and doing heavy lifting, and was at 62kg, but I looked very muscular (my body fat was about 16% then)! But, as I have been sick and I'm not very active, I can tell I've gained weight around my stomach at 65-66kg (and I can grab the fat there, too, unfortunately lol, and just feel uncomfortable in my clothes - I don't want to buy new trousers hahaha)

But ultimately, I do want to be healthy/fit rather than just skinny! So, like people have said, maximising my health would be more my goal.

I wish I did have a health team to ask, but it turns out I have been discharged from my OT and I don't think my GP will be too thrilled if I ask them for help... I'm not sure who else I can ask for help as I'm a student so I can't afford private healthcare in the UK!

It's very interesting about the cortisol levels and weight/water retention. I have PTSD so I think my cortisol levels will be high anyway - I think I will cut out HIIT, and focus on weightlifting, walking, and yoga. If my TDEE for light activity is 1960, I was going to do all of these and try to keep eating at 1600 (so less than a 20% deficit)... Do you think that could work, if I don't eat back any calories (unless I felt very hungry), with the hopes my body will lose fat + gain muscle/stamina at the same time?

AnnPT77

melissab287 wrote: »

Thank you very much everyone for your replies! I really appreciate all of your help

I do get the body recomposition, and the photos are helpful to see. At one point, I was cycling to the gym and doing heavy lifting, and was at 62kg, but I looked very muscular (my body fat was about 16% then)! But, as I have been sick and I'm not very active, I can tell I've gained weight around my stomach at 65-66kg (and I can grab the fat there, too, unfortunately lol, and just feel uncomfortable in my clothes - I don't want to buy new trousers hahaha)

But ultimately, I do want to be healthy/fit rather than just skinny! So, like people have said, maximising my health would be more my goal.

I wish I did have a health team to ask, but it turns out I have been discharged from my OT and I don't think my GP will be too thrilled if I ask them for help... I'm not sure who else I can ask for help as I'm a student so I can't afford private healthcare in the UK!

It's very interesting about the cortisol levels and weight/water retention. I have PTSD so I think my cortisol levels will be high anyway - I think I will cut out HIIT, and focus on weightlifting, walking, and yoga. If my TDEE for light activity is 1960, I was going to do all of these and try to keep eating at 1600 (so less than a 20% deficit)... Do you think that could work, if I don't eat back any calories (unless I felt very hungry), with the hopes my body will lose fat + gain muscle/stamina at the same time?

You're not me, but I'm going to give you an "if it were me" reply:

If your TDEE is truly 1960, I'd set MFP at 1960, then strive to eat most days somewhere between 1710 (the half a pound a week number) and 1960 (even a bit over it, occasionally) depending on hunger. Use those calories to get good nutrition, especially but not exclusively protein.

If you're more comfortable with percent TDEE vs. a numeric calorie deficit, 20% or 1600 as the lower bound is probably fine - it's just that I personally think in terms of calorie deficit for a given loss rate, vs. thinking in % TDEE, so my bias.

That kind of strategy, if your TDEE estimate is correct, will result in ultra slow fat loss over an extended time period, and maximize your potential for muscle gain while in any deficit (because the deficit is *small*).

This is a strategy I followed myself to lose a few (10-15) vanity pounds recently. (That's 4.5-7kg, more or less.) It was easy/painless, flexible, didn't cause any energy or exercise performance hit for me at all, along the way. The only downside, IMO, is that fat loss shows up on the scale over weeks to months when doing this, not days to small numbers of weeks. (Daily fluctuations are 1-3 pounds for me; half a pound or less of fat loss per week can play peek-a-boo on the scale for a long time, in that scenario.) My actual experience with this eating pattern was about a pound (half kg-ish) a month loss, on average, over around 12 or so months.

I'd also get a weight trending app**, if you don't already use one, and weigh daily under consistent conditions (first thing in AM, after bathroom, before food/water, nude or consistent clothing every day), if it doesn't unduly stress you to weigh daily.

Even a weight trending app will probably think you're gaining/maintaining for some time stretches (maybe multi-week ones sometimes), but it'll give you a little better idea than just looking at weigh ins alone.

** Libra for Android, Happy Scale for Apple iOS, Trendweight with a free Fitbit account (don't need a device), Weightgrapher, or others. Or, if you have the tech & stats chops, set up your own spreadsheet with some kind of rolling average to get a trend.

As far as increasing stamina, IMO the way to do that is a patient process where you gradually increase your exercise (by increasing frequency, duration, or intensity, depending on what's practical for you), to continuously keep just a mild bit of challenge present, without invoking counterproductive fatigue or burnout. (Truth in advertising: I'm a regular and fairly heavy exerciser, and I like dosing some intensity in there once base fitness has been built as a foundation, but I believe HIIT is seriously overhyped these days, more likely to create counterproductive fatigue if done frequently. Because of that, I think dropping HIIT could be a good plan for you, for now.)

If by "stamina" you mean "endurance", then I think it can be useful, if you have the time, to gradually increase exercise duration and/or frequency at consistent perceived exertion (RPE). (Objective intensity, such as walking pace, can gradually and naturally increase when holding perceived exertion steady, as you get fitter.)

But like I said, that's me. You know your own preferences and needs better than I do.

Best wishes!