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Good and bad fats for keto?

LadyovthelakesLadyovthelakes Member Posts: 65 Member Member Posts: 65 Member
I fell off the keto/low carb wagon a few times this past year.. I couldnt make my own food recovering from surgery so hospital food and others supplying my food I didn’t wanna make a fuss. My doc wants me back on keto but my blood is showing a slight raise in my cholesterol levels (which I know nothing about) ... basically they wanted me on medication for it but I asked for a few months to see if changing back to keto sorts it out. They agreed to 3 months.

My diet includes a macro balance of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs… which I suspect is something I need help with because it may effect cholesterol ??
there is good and bad fats right??? or is it different given cholesterol problems ??? does that mean no fats? 🤔

I’m babbling now because I’m thinking out loud and don’t have a clue about cholesterol.. I need to do some research but advice is always appreciated 👍

Replies

  • al0481113al0481113 Member Posts: 12 Member Member Posts: 12 Member
    Keto works for healthy people. What I know for sure is that Keto ruins kidneys. Be careful with that.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunnerT1DCarnivoreRunner Member Posts: 11,358 Member Member Posts: 11,358 Member
    Regarding cholesterol - keep in mind that LDL particle size is important. Many doctors are still living in the 19th century, unfortunately. If your dr. refuses to do a particle size test, the ratio of HDL:Triglycerides is a very reliable indicator. You want that to be at least 1 to be absolutely safe (i.e. HDL is greater than triglycerides), but most at 0.5 to 1.0 are good to go anyways.

    Keto doesn't destroy kidneys, nor is ketosis the same as diabetic ketoacidosis. I'm not sure where these silly myths come from.
  • DoctorMOHSENDoctorMOHSEN Member Posts: 33 Member Member Posts: 33 Member
    Regarding cholesterol - keep in mind that LDL particle size is important. Many doctors are still living in the 19th century, unfortunately. If your dr. refuses to do a particle size test, the ratio of HDL:Triglycerides is a very reliable indicator. You want that to be at least 1 to be absolutely safe (i.e. HDL is greater than triglycerides), but most at 0.5 to 1.0 are good to go anyways.

    Keto doesn't destroy kidneys, nor is ketosis the same as diabetic ketoacidosis. I'm not sure where these silly myths come from.

    I totally agree here, cholesterol is not bad but essential for our bodies, like making hormones or building cell walls membranes and some vitamins like vitamin D. There are two main types of cholesterol: high-density lipoprotein (HDL) and low-density lipoprotein (LDL). Lipoproteins are made of fat and proteins. Cholesterol moves through your body while inside lipoproteins. HDL is good because it takes cholesterol from your arteries back to the liver while LDL is doing the opposite.

    Doing lipid profile tests can show you the level of those among triglycerides and total cholesterol.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunnerT1DCarnivoreRunner Member Posts: 11,358 Member Member Posts: 11,358 Member
    Regarding cholesterol - keep in mind that LDL particle size is important. Many doctors are still living in the 19th century, unfortunately. If your dr. refuses to do a particle size test, the ratio of HDL:Triglycerides is a very reliable indicator. You want that to be at least 1 to be absolutely safe (i.e. HDL is greater than triglycerides), but most at 0.5 to 1.0 are good to go anyways.

    Keto doesn't destroy kidneys, nor is ketosis the same as diabetic ketoacidosis. I'm not sure where these silly myths come from.

    I totally agree here, cholesterol is not bad but essential for our bodies, like making hormones or building cell walls membranes and some vitamins like vitamin D. There are two main types of cholesterol: high-density lipoprotein (HDL) and low-density lipoprotein (LDL). Lipoproteins are made of fat and proteins. Cholesterol moves through your body while inside lipoproteins. HDL is good because it takes cholesterol from your arteries back to the liver while LDL is doing the opposite.

    Doing lipid profile tests can show you the level of those among triglycerides and total cholesterol.

    My point was about LDL particle size. LDL is often demonized as "bad cholesterol" unjustly, as there are different particle sizes. Not all LDL is "bad."
  • MichelleMcKeeRNMichelleMcKeeRN Member, Premium Posts: 366 Member Member, Premium Posts: 366 Member
    I try to keep my butter and cheese portions regular. I don’t go out of my way to eat high fat meat. I trim the fat off my meat. I eat eggs, avocados, nuts, nut butters, seeds, and olives to up my fat intake. I am not doing keto at the moment but when I do, I do keep my carb limit at 50grams so I can have as many vegetables as I want and the occasional fruit.
    I should really get back on the keto bandwagon. I love the results.
  • neanderthinneanderthin Member Posts: 7,781 Member Member Posts: 7,781 Member
    Increasing dietary fat to this degree results in decreasing dietary carbohydrates and as far as the average persons intake of carbs are, approx 65% are highly processed apparently. What happens is the liver changes what it decides to load it's lipoproteins. Normally it's mostly triglycerides, fat soluble vits like E, CoQ10 for example and cholesterol. Eating mostly fat lowers triglcerides and increases HDL, I'm sure most have heard of that. Anyway now the liver has more room for cholesterol for transport, which it increases and why HDL and LDL go up in the blood. Also just to make this point, dietary cholesterol is hydrophobic and doesn't just end up in our blood so when you hear that eating cholesterol effects our serum cholesterol, you'll know that's not true.

    When we replace refined dietary carbs with dietary fat the liver produces a larger lipoprotein called pattern A with the outgoing pattern B from carbs. These are considered less atherogenic and will always be present in blood work where triglycerides are lowered, which is what happens when replacing carbs for fat in the diet.....basically it's not the evil thing that it's been made out to be.

    Personally and I do low/er carb get most of your fat from whole foods found in seafood with the bonus of omega 3's, avocado, coconut milk, nuts and seeds and to a lesser degree from beef which I've switched out with game meats. EVOO, butter, duck fat, schmaltz, bacon fat and avocado oil are my go to oils for cooking.

    I suggest that you don't get to down on yourself if your finding it difficult, because it is, and personally i don't see the value. I'm low carb because it helps me with satiety but would never at this point try Keto again. imo.
  • callsitlikeiseeitcallsitlikeiseeit Member Posts: 8,153 Member Member Posts: 8,153 Member

    My diet includes a macro balance of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs… which I suspect is something I need help with because it may effect cholesterol ??
    there is good and bad fats right??? or is it different given cholesterol problems ??? does that mean no fats? 🤔

    I’m babbling now because I’m thinking out loud and don’t have a clue about cholesterol.. I need to do some research but advice is always appreciated 👍

    i think those who know me, know im not a fan of keto, but also know ill always say 'find what works for you and what is sustainable for you' and I will also say that I have a very 'top level' knowledge of keto (and nothing of the macros associated with it other than high fat), so I do not know all of the intricacies and 'ins and outs' so to speak. I don't try to pretend to.

    So, that being said, someone who is knowledgeable PLEASE correct me if I am wrong! But what OP says up there concerns me, because it seems to me, that these are basic things that a person following this diet should have a good, solid understanding of before starting this plan. Everyone should have a basic understanding of it, but with this way of eating in particular, I would think it to be even more imperative to have a fairly solid knowledge of the different kinds of fats, cholesterol(s), and the various food sources that contribute to them (and how they work together).

    yes? no? Am I overthinking this?

  • russellholtslander1russellholtslander1 Member Posts: 46 Member Member Posts: 46 Member
    If Keto actually ruined kidneys, it wouldn't be OK for healthy people.. it would make them unhealthy.

    Since there is no evidence that Keto destroys kidneys, it does work for healthy people.. IF followed correctly.

    Why exactly would Keto be harmful be kidneys, anyways? The reason people give for LC possibly causing kidney issues, is excess protein, BUT on Keto, there is NO excess protein.. there is excess fat. The protein stays at 20%, so the kidneys don't work any harder. High fat on your body ( weight ), can cause stress on the kidneys, BUT, Keto works to drop the fat on your body, causing weight loss, even if it has 75% dietary fat. In the end, it might help your kidneys by removing weight.. but I won't say do the diet for that reason.. any diet causing weight loss would give you that.

    What I will say, is that people spouting this nonsense are wrong, and most often wrong, because they have never done Keto, and never actually thought of why the kidneys might be affected.. high protein, causing damage, which ALSO is not true, if you currently have healthy kidneys.. if you have kidney damage, talk to your doctor for the proper diet.. but if the kidneys are fine, there is no actual reason for people saying that it damages kidneys, other than them repeating what they heard from someone, and it confirming what they already believe, so they repeat it, with nothing backing up the claim.

    I would suggest a lipid test, and check your kidney function, and see how you are, and then test again in 3 months.

    Good or bad fats? I can think trans fats, but if you eat real food, you shouldn't get any. Some people think saturated fats are bad, and that would be shown with a lipid test.. see if it raises you Tchol, LDL, triglycerides.. some tests have more detail, like particle size. Work that out with your doctor.

    I've been mostly low carb for a decade, with good results. I've done Atkins, Keto, and now Carnivore. My only problem is when I am NOT on plan. Still looking for a plan I can stay on permanently. I eat 6 eggs a day with butter usually.. have for years, and the result has been my Tchol dropping from close to 200, to 125, my tris dropped from 300, to 75, and my LDL dropped from 130 to 70.. my HDL jumped from 24 to 43, but that is due to exercise, not diet.. although everything has improved some, due to losing 90 lbs. along the way.

    I would ask if the food on Keto is simple for you to follow, and if you like the food you eat on this plan. You should plan to remain on this forever. Starting with the idea that you will quit in 2 months ( ex. ), would mean you get some benefit, and then undo it in 2 months.. ANY diet you start should not be a chore, and the goal should be for it to be permanent. That may not work out for you, but that should be the goal at the start.

    If the idea of Keto sounds like a chore, or the food sounds unappetizing.. then do NOT do Keto.. just try something else.. but if you like it.. keep at it. It provides enough protein, and switches you from burning glucose, to burning ketones.. and when you burn up dietary fat, and need more energy.. it has a reserve to consume.. your BODYFAT.. why it is there.. so in those long stretches between meals, you shouldn't feel hunger, because as soon as you use up dietary fat, the body simply starts using bodyfat, which is no different than fat you eat, in terms of energy, and calories. A lb. of bodyfat has 3,500 calories. That goes on, but in ketosis, it gets used up, since it IS a storage tank.

    The difference is nutrition, which is why no one says.. just eat few calories, and burn bodyfat for energy, until you are lean. Food has the nutrients, so you need to eat a normal amount of food.. there's nutrition in a steak, I doubt there is much in an equivalent amount of bodyfat, if it has ANY nutrition.

    I think you need to realize that you will hear anecdotal evidence of big successes, and warning of imminent death, but need to actually look for proof, and usually it is lacking. I think consistency, with a healthy diet, which helps you reach a healthy weight, and maintain it.. is the best way.. which diet? Whatever works. The issue for you is to find the diet you can stick to, so get long term benefits.

    Other than that, I can't recommend Keto, or any other diet.. what works for one person, may not work for you.. simply too many factors.. so just pick a diet with food you like, which is healthier than if you were NOT on it, and see what happens.

    If that is Keto, get tested, and give it a try, and then make a choice based on FACTS, that you can sit down with your doctor and discuss.. even if they might not like the diet you are on, they will tell you if the results are good or bad. That is why you hire doctors. They work for you, so you can just say.. I'm doing Keto.. monitor it, and we'll discuss the test results. Then go from there, knowing if it is making you healthier.. or try something else, if your numbers go in the wrong direction.

    Be wary of people who say don't do something. Don't believe the great stories of success. Trust the numbers.. they have no bias.

  • neanderthinneanderthin Member Posts: 7,781 Member Member Posts: 7,781 Member

    My diet includes a macro balance of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs… which I suspect is something I need help with because it may effect cholesterol ??
    there is good and bad fats right??? or is it different given cholesterol problems ??? does that mean no fats? 🤔

    I’m babbling now because I’m thinking out loud and don’t have a clue about cholesterol.. I need to do some research but advice is always appreciated 👍

    i think those who know me, know im not a fan of keto, but also know ill always say 'find what works for you and what is sustainable for you' and I will also say that I have a very 'top level' knowledge of keto (and nothing of the macros associated with it other than high fat), so I do not know all of the intricacies and 'ins and outs' so to speak. I don't try to pretend to.

    So, that being said, someone who is knowledgeable PLEASE correct me if I am wrong! But what OP says up there concerns me, because it seems to me, that these are basic things that a person following this diet should have a good, solid understanding of before starting this plan. Everyone should have a basic understanding of it, but with this way of eating in particular, I would think it to be even more imperative to have a fairly solid knowledge of the different kinds of fats, cholesterol(s), and the various food sources that contribute to them (and how they work together).

    yes? no? Am I overthinking this?

    Good question for sure. What are the dangers of consuming mostly fat. Arctic people and indigenous people living in very high lateral geographical locations would be useful to look at. They have and diseases of civilization are pretty much non existent until any adoption of a western processed food diet, which has been researched for over a century, and the results are pretty much unanimous that disease increases, but lifestyle has also slowly changed as well.

    Humans have evolved to utilize ketones for survival as do many mammals in nature as well as converting protein into glucose through gluconeogenesis. We put on fat for times of famine, again a survival mechanism and we use that adipose for survival in the depths of starvation. We just need to understand better so we can utilize these adaptions better and for this audience it's weight loss.

    edited September 15
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 24,889 Member Member Posts: 24,889 Member
    I fell off the keto/low carb wagon a few times this past year.. I couldnt make my own food recovering from surgery so hospital food and others supplying my food I didn’t wanna make a fuss. My doc wants me back on keto but my blood is showing a slight raise in my cholesterol levels (which I know nothing about) ... basically they wanted me on medication for it but I asked for a few months to see if changing back to keto sorts it out. They agreed to 3 months.

    My diet includes a macro balance of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs… which I suspect is something I need help with because it may effect cholesterol ??
    there is good and bad fats right??? or is it different given cholesterol problems ??? does that mean no fats? 🤔

    I’m babbling now because I’m thinking out loud and don’t have a clue about cholesterol.. I need to do some research but advice is always appreciated 👍

    Does your doctor want you back on keto simply for weight loss and no other reason?

    Please ask for a referral to a registered dietitian. (If you are in the US "nutritionist" is generally a meaningless title.)
  • callsitlikeiseeitcallsitlikeiseeit Member Posts: 8,153 Member Member Posts: 8,153 Member

    Good question for sure. What are the dangers of consuming mostly fat.

    But that wasn't my question. My question was... shouldn't a person following this way of eating have a pretty good understanding of the different kinds of fats and the various food sources that contribute to them (ie how animal fats may be different from the fats found in nuts. How Omega 6 fats are different from Omega 3 fats and the foods they are found in, the differences in HDL and LDL cholesterol levels and what affects those numbers, etc). not only for their OWN health and their ability to be able to have an intellectual conversation with their Doctor regarding their health and labwork, but also so they can 'defend' (if you will) their choice of diet to well meaning friends and relatives who will almost certainly give unwanted opinions about how they are going to increase their cholesterol, and damage their kidneys, and have a heart attack, etc etc etc.... I am sure those who have been on keto understand exactly where I am coming from with that statement- I understand enough to know if its done correctly, those statements are not true.... Grandma and Auntie Em ... probably do not LMAO

    Arctic people and indigenous people living in very high lateral geographical locations would be useful to look at. They have and diseases of civilization are pretty much non existent until any adoption of a western processed food diet, which has been researched for over a century, and the results are pretty much unanimous that disease increases, but lifestyle has also slowly changed as well.


    I think that's probably safe to say of society in general. while the variety in our diet has increased (which can and should be a good thing) in many parts of the western world especially, the overall QUALITY has decreased with the increased availability and low cost of low quality, mass produced foods.

  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 2,078 Member Member Posts: 2,078 Member
    I fell off the keto/low carb wagon a few times this past year.. I couldnt make my own food recovering from surgery so hospital food and others supplying my food I didn’t wanna make a fuss. My doc wants me back on keto but my blood is showing a slight raise in my cholesterol levels (which I know nothing about) ... basically they wanted me on medication for it but I asked for a few months to see if changing back to keto sorts it out. They agreed to 3 months.

    My diet includes a macro balance of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs… which I suspect is something I need help with because it may effect cholesterol ??
    there is good and bad fats right??? or is it different given cholesterol problems ??? does that mean no fats? 🤔

    I’m babbling now because I’m thinking out loud and don’t have a clue about cholesterol.. I need to do some research but advice is always appreciated 👍

    Not enough information given. If you're recovering from surgery on meds, etc and the doctor is telling you to be on Keto, ask him/her about diet specifics.

    Good luck.
  • neanderthinneanderthin Member Posts: 7,781 Member Member Posts: 7,781 Member
    I love this place. lol
  • kshama2001kshama2001 Member Posts: 24,889 Member Member Posts: 24,889 Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »

    My diet includes a macro balance of 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs… which I suspect is something I need help with because it may effect cholesterol ??
    there is good and bad fats right??? or is it different given cholesterol problems ??? does that mean no fats? 🤔

    I’m babbling now because I’m thinking out loud and don’t have a clue about cholesterol.. I need to do some research but advice is always appreciated 👍

    i think those who know me, know im not a fan of keto, but also know ill always say 'find what works for you and what is sustainable for you' and I will also say that I have a very 'top level' knowledge of keto (and nothing of the macros associated with it other than high fat), so I do not know all of the intricacies and 'ins and outs' so to speak. I don't try to pretend to.

    So, that being said, someone who is knowledgeable PLEASE correct me if I am wrong! But what OP says up there concerns me, because it seems to me, that these are basic things that a person following this diet should have a good, solid understanding of before starting this plan. Everyone should have a basic understanding of it, but with this way of eating in particular, I would think it to be even more imperative to have a fairly solid knowledge of the different kinds of fats, cholesterol(s), and the various food sources that contribute to them (and how they work together).

    yes? no? Am I overthinking this?

    Good question for sure. What are the dangers of consuming mostly fat. Arctic people and indigenous people living in very high lateral geographical locations would be useful to look at. They have and diseases of civilization are pretty much non existent until any adoption of a western processed food diet, which has been researched for over a century, and the results are pretty much unanimous that disease increases, but lifestyle has also slowly changed as well.

    Humans have evolved to utilize ketones for survival as do many mammals in nature as well as converting protein into glucose through gluconeogenesis. We put on fat for times of famine, again a survival mechanism and we use that adipose for survival in the depths of starvation. We just need to understand better so we can utilize these adaptions better and for this audience it's weight loss.

    I don't think this is an argument for me in Massachusetts to eat a random high fat diet from my supermarket but for Arctic and indigenous people living a traditional lifestyle to keep doing what they were doing.

    Plus the Arctic natives have genetic adaptations to the high fat diet that most of the world does not have.

    /nods

    I might indeed like more fat if I lived in the Arctic and spent a lot of time outdoors.

    I know when I was in Costa Rica I liked eating tropical fruit (which grew on the property) all day long, plus rice and beans twice per day (which was delivered by local farmers on horseback.)
  • callsitlikeiseeitcallsitlikeiseeit Member Posts: 8,153 Member Member Posts: 8,153 Member
    was my question really that difficult?

    sigh......
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