Pull Days: Moving Dead lifts before Rows?

Justin_7272

During my pull days (every other day) I start with rows at 25% 10rm weight x 10 , 50% 10rm x 10, then 100% 10rm x 2 sets before moving to dead lifts 100% 10rm x 2. Don't think it necessarily matters, but FWIW my dead lift 1 RM is approaching 400lbs and row is approaching 200. Both are progressing as scheduled (10%+ increase every for weeks). I haven't tried going cold into dead lifts, but I don't warm up dead lifts, so rows before seems to make sense from a priming perspective. This guy, however, suggests rows should be done after dead lift due to "post-activation potentiation" which, from what I gather, would allow you to row heavier.

"I like to use these as accessory work after deadlifts. Performing bent-over rows immediately after heavy deadlifts is beneficial since it allows you to take advantage of the post-activation potentiation effect. Basically, this allows seemingly heavy weights to feel lighter than usual." https://www.t-nation.com/training/barbell-row-back-workout/
(Don't waste your time with the video, unless you want to see the guy smashing weights into the ground followed by a wierd rant where he-for some reason-air quotes "hypertrophy"...okay, watch the video, just because it's funny, but I digress.)

For now I'll stay the course, but I'm interested in everyone's thoughts on this.

gman3363

Hey Justin. Good numbers. From what I have heard, doing basic (compound lifts) are recommended first, before other non compound or isolation exercises. I have been following Jim Wendler’s 5-3-1 program for a couple years now and his program sets up compound lifts first with isolation and hi rep exercises following. Your question is a bit tricky though as I personally feel like a bent over BB Row is a semi compound lift. Anyway, just an old mans attempt at an answer.

nossmf

Not an expert, but from what I've read and based on personal experience lifting for a couple decades, I always try to put whatever exercise I want to focus upon first in the lineup. This may change from one week/workout to the next, so play around with order. But I find I can lift heaviest on my first exercise, since I'm fresh. For example, if I do bench press followed by DB presses, my bench is stronger than if I do the DB presses first and then bench. Neither is bad, and in fact swapping order occasionally can be a good way to keep progress moving forward on both lifts.

If you're worried about proper warmup for deadlifts as the first exercise, I tend to do a LOT of warmup sets on deadlift day. You and I lift pretty close in 1RM, so my warmup on deads is usually:

95x12
135x10
185x8
225x6
275x4
315x2

From there it all depends on how many reps I'm doing, whether I'm going 5x5, 5x2, 3x10, etc.

Chieflrg

Depends on your goal(s) which is vacant within your post.

If your goal is increasing your 10rm DL I would insert that as the first lift or otherwise if you are geared at your 10rm row increasing than that first. For what's it's worth I have never once programmed a row in front of DL or variation just for to elicit a training response other than dealing with a injury of some sort and even then being very rare for me to do so.

Even knowing your programming I would suggest you warm up your deadlift regardless appropriately.

For what it is worth I also suggest that if you chose to read or frequent T-nation you understand that the majority of the info they put out isn't based by science or evidence nor would I recommend it even for casual reading. IMHO opinion the content including programming is buried on the poor side.