Cheat day

lookonthingsabove

Okay, I have a question. (FYI it's going to be long haha)

So I'm trying to just maintain my weight. MFP puts me at 1461 calories a day for maintenance.

I just started following the 5:2 diet/lifestyle (500 calories for 2 days) and I eat 1200 calories the other 3 days. Then I have 2 cheat days a week. I workout 5-6 days a week, burning only about 200-300 calories per day.
My maintenance calories for the week is 10,227
I eat around 1200×3 then + 500x2 = 4600 calories 5 days a week. On cheat days I eat anything I desire, however I do try to stay between 2500-3000 calories a day.

Sound reasonable? I absolutely love my cheat days, so I won't cut that out. Any other suggestions? I'm just maintaining.

I don't eat back my exercise calories on the days I workout, so can I add those "extra" calories to my cheat days too? I start my 5:2 directly after my cheat days (I do them consecutively)
I also lost a bit of weight this week, despite me trying to maintain. Any help! Thanks

AnnPT77

In general, how you time your calories doesn't matter for weight management; what matters is the average over time.

That said, some physiological responses to calorie restriction are individualized. Your plan has 3 low days, 2 very low days, 2 days of blowout . . . that could be fine. OTOH, depending on how your personal body operates, and maybe depending on other features of your life (how much other physical/psychological stress there is being an important one), carrying on this way for an extended time period could IMO have some downsides.

It's pure speculation, but I think it's possible that you could see unusual water retention patterns, possible subtle energy effects that bleed calorie burn out of daily life (less vigorous daily life, less intensity in exercise), perhaps even health oddities. OTOH, the highs might counter that potential.

I'm not saying those bad things *would* happen over a long cycle of this plan, I'm mostly saying that what you're doing is unusual, and at the kind of threshold where it seems like individual results would vary.

If I were you, and I thought that was a plan that would make me happy, I'd probably try it for a few months, but be alert for any subtle effects on energy or health.

How petite are you? 1461 to maintain is really low. I'm average height (5'5"), probably a bit lighter than average for that height (mid 120s pounds), very sedentary outside of intentional exercise, and that's about the number of calories it thinks I'd need to maintain. (FWIW, that's inaccurate for me; I actually need several hundred calories more . . . .). Is the 1461 to maintain consistent with any logging history you may have?

Best wishes!

spiriteagle99

Another issue is, are you eating healthy food on your cheat days? If not, you might find yourself with some nutritional deficits that will have an impact over the long term. i.e. not eating enough protein will affect your workouts and muscle strength.

sijomial

"MFP puts me at 1461 calories a day for maintenance."
Sounds low, even when you consider that's 1461 + exercise.
Are you small?
Are you actually sedentary for all your waking hours?

To maintain you need to take your "workout 5-6 days a week, burning only about 200-300 calories per day" into account which means "my maintenance calories for the week is 10,227" isn't correct and you are starting your calculations from the wrong number.

With such an uneven eating pattern you will find it's harder to find your true weight trend and you are going to invest time to even out the inevitable swings.

My feeling as someone who did 5:2 to lose weight (5 days at maintenance) I have big doubts about how sustainable your plan will be. When I hit goal weight and switched to maintenance I tried a few variations of how to divide up my weekly goal and the very low days didn't prove appealing long term.

HRHJoDee

First it would be helpful to know your current weight (what you want to maintain) and height and age.
And what BMI you would like to have.

Regardless, it is not reasonable to have 2 cheat days a week between 2,500-3,000 calories on each of those days.
You have not said what those cheat day include in terms of total protein grams, total sugar grams, total fat grams and total carb grams.

And because you are making the conscious deliberate choice to refuse to cut your cheat days out - and are even thinking you can add your exercise calories to that, you will likely gain more weight than maybe you want to - and add fat.

Do you cheat days include processed meats and high fat laden meat in general?
Oils in salad dressings and cooking or fast food?
Dairy with cheese and milk and cream and butter?
Pastas, breads, potatoes and rice?
Sugar filled desserts?

I am confused as to what you are thinking your version of a 5:2 will do for you in terms of maintenance. It really is a 3:2 and not a 5:2

My belief is that you are sabotaging your entire week with the 2 entire cheat days. It will also make you crave those cheat items your body is used to on those two days, and then make it more likely over time to rationalize slipping up on your other days.

One scrumptious cheat item once a week is a far more effective plan.
Refusing to keep it at one cheat item (appetizer or entree or dessert) is your choice.
Choices always have consequences, some wanted and some unwanted in terms of what it does to our bodies.

Eating plans work when people are sensible and stick to them.
Eating plans don't work when they are not sensible. Sounds harsh - but that's the way it is.

cmriverside

Only way for you to know is to work your plan for a couple months and see how it goes. That's what we all have to do. My opinion is I do a lot better if I eat close to the same amount every day, not low-cal then high, then medium. Sounds like an awful lot of variables to have to juggle, honestly.

I agree that 1460 is very low as a baseline, what is your height/weight/age/desk job or active job?

paperpudding

Do you cheat days include processed meats and high fat laden meat in general?
Oils in salad dressings and cooking or fast food?
Dairy with cheese and milk and cream and butter?
Pastas, breads, potatoes and rice?
Sugar filled desserts?

why does it matter if her cheat days - or her non cheat days - include these things??
Obviously from a nutrition point of view, not to the extent of crowding out enough balanced nutrition

But her question wasnt about nutrition, it was just about weight loss.

Other than minor water weight fluctuations, what foods she eats does not matter in a weight loss question - her calorie amount does.
Her average calorie amount over time.

LazyBlondeChef

I'm not sure why you're calling these cheat days. You're creating an eating plan. That's all.

I have done something similar but my daily differences were between 100-300 calories and it was related to my workout schedule to optimize building muscle. I found it to be a complete PITA to monitor. I even upgraded to the pro version of MFP so I could have different calories each day and that didn't work because it was a schedule based on every six days and MPF doesn't have that kind of flexibility with the daily calorie set unless you want to change every week which ends up resetting your macros. MFP should spend more time on fixing their food logging capabilities and less on ruining the forum.

In the end I just did my base calorie set plus active exercise calories. So go ahead and give it a try for a month or two and see how it works out. Personally, those 500 calorie days would make me miserable and give me a headache.

sheahughes

Give it a try for a month or so - that is the only way to know if it works for you.

Personally, I don't understand why you don't just eat at maintenance level plus some of your exercise calories every day and therefore enjoy your "cheat days" spread out throughout the week?

ChickenKillerPuppy

If it works for you and you feel you can maintain it, that's really all that matters. Along the lines of what someone else said about creating a plan, have you thought about tracking your cheat days, so they are more formally part of your plan, and not a free-for-all type situation? I'm not saying eat less or "healthy" or anything like that, just that you track it, so you know how many calories you are consuming on those heavier calorie days so if you wanted to make adjustments you could?

My observation of what you described is that you are choosing to restrict yourself to an extremely low calorie two days a week (500 calories is barely anything), and very low for three days (1200 calories) so you can basically eat in a binge-type situation for two days a week. Is that a lifestyle you feel you can maintain once you hit your goal weight? I'm a big fan of the mindset that weight loss shouldn't involve doing anything you won't want to do forever, if your goal is not just to lose the weight, but to keep it off. For me, that meant breaking the binge-restrict cycle. That is not to judge what you are doing at all - like I said - if it works for you that's great. Just putting it out there to think about.

Good luck!

westrich20940

Without getting too deep into your math --- as long as your calorie intake/output come out in the wash over time* you should maintain (as long as what MFP says is your maintenance level is accurate -FWIW it is not for me personally and in order to maintain my weight I eat more than what MFP would put me at).

But...yeah if that's sustainable for you then it could work. It simply would not be sustainable for most people though, so if you find that it's unsustainable for you...then why don't you just eat more every day? Like...is there a reason that you are so restrictive on days that are not your 'cheat days'....bc the line between disordered binge eating and just liking having a routine and schedule is a lil' thin. The mindset of "I'll restrict on these days so that I can eat whatever I want on these days"...like is already not a great mindset as far as health and sustainability.

33gail33

paperpudding wrote: »

Do you cheat days include processed meats and high fat laden meat in general?
Oils in salad dressings and cooking or fast food?
Dairy with cheese and milk and cream and butter?
Pastas, breads, potatoes and rice?
Sugar filled desserts?

why does it matter if her cheat days - or her non cheat days - include these things??
Obviously from a nutrition point of view, not to the extent of crowding out enough balanced nutrition

But her question wasnt about nutrition, it was just about weight loss.

Other than minor water weight fluctuations, what foods she eats does not matter in a weight loss question - her calorie amount does.
Her average calorie amount over time.

I think the idea is that the OP could still have "cheat" days which are high volume and satiating, but fewer calories, if they perhaps slightly alter their food choices.

Xellercin

ChickenKillerPuppy wrote: »

If it works for you and you feel you can maintain it, that's really all that matters. Along the lines of what someone else said about creating a plan, have you thought about tracking your cheat days, so they are more formally part of your plan, and not a free-for-all type situation? I'm not saying eat less or "healthy" or anything like that, just that you track it, so you know how many calories you are consuming on those heavier calorie days so if you wanted to make adjustments you could?

My observation of what you described is that you are choosing to restrict yourself to an extremely low calorie two days a week (500 calories is barely anything), and very low for three days (1200 calories) so you can basically eat in a binge-type situation for two days a week. Is that a lifestyle you feel you can maintain once you hit your goal weight? I'm a big fan of the mindset that weight loss shouldn't involve doing anything you won't want to do forever, if your goal is not just to lose the weight, but to keep it off. For me, that meant breaking the binge-restrict cycle. That is not to judge what you are doing at all - like I said - if it works for you that's great. Just putting it out there to think about.

Good luck!

To be fair, this is a very common intermittent fasting routine, and often helps people binge less.

I personally do true alternate day fasting, I eat one day and don't eat the next. I make sure to eat extra on the eating day, but I never feel like over eating, if anything, it's really lowered my appetite.

I agree with you that the way OP is describing it sounds a lot like doing IF in order to be able to binge, which doesn't sound optimal to me, but it's hard to say just from what they've shared.

But I did want to clarify that although it sounds super extreme and like a horrible starve-binge cycle, for people whose bodies respond well to it, like me, it's actually really easy and feels nothing like starving and bingeing. I'm doing this as prescribed by my neurologist to help manage inflammation in my cranial nerves, so it's a valid medical protocol and not inherently dangerous or damaging, but individual responses do vary. My body happens to do IF very easily, a lot of people don't.

amusedmonkey

Try it and see, but I doubt spending most of the week eating very low calories will be sustainable in the long run. Have you tried other calories spilits? As it stands, you're leaving an allowance of about 3500 calories for two days, and I doubt you will always be eating that much on those days which might lead to further weight loss. That's not a good thing if your plan is to maintain.

Your calculated weekly maintenance calories are 10,227+1500 give or take. If you keep your two low days, you'll still be able to eat 2100-2200 for 5 days a week, isn't that a better compromise? Heck, do two very low days, four 2000 days, and one 2600-2800. That's assuming your calculated maintenance is close to your real maintenance, you may not be as sedentary as you think.

For what it's worth, I'm also in maintenance. I personally do flexible calories, so I do understand eating less on some days and more on others. When I'm not hungry and there isn't anything special on the menu, I eat less (sometimes much less). When I'm hungry or have something planned, I eat more (sometimes much more). Most days I just eat normally, only a little over or under my daily average. I have a monthly pool of calories and as long as my low days and my high days balance out within that pool, I'm good. It would be hard for me personally to have a rule that says "on this day I must eat 3500 calories" when I'm not hungry. It would feel like I'm wasting precious calories just to fill a requirement when I could spend them on something I truly want when I really want it. Similarely, I would never want to go for a 1200 calorie day if I'm hungry or if the food we prepared that day is high in calories.

paperpudding

33gail33 wrote: »

paperpudding wrote: »

Do you cheat days include processed meats and high fat laden meat in general?
Oils in salad dressings and cooking or fast food?
Dairy with cheese and milk and cream and butter?
Pastas, breads, potatoes and rice?
Sugar filled desserts?

why does it matter if her cheat days - or her non cheat days - include these things??
Obviously from a nutrition point of view, not to the extent of crowding out enough balanced nutrition

But her question wasnt about nutrition, it was just about weight loss.

Other than minor water weight fluctuations, what foods she eats does not matter in a weight loss question - her calorie amount does.
Her average calorie amount over time.

I think the idea is that the OP could still have "cheat" days which are high volume and satiating, but fewer calories, if they perhaps slightly alter their food choices.

Well, perhaps that is what the poster meant - doesn't read that way to me though.

lookonthingsabove

Well it didn't work! haha.
I was loosing weight.

I'm 5'2 a stay at home mom of 9. My life is pretty sedentary. I mean I workout low impact from 7-8:30 am 5-6 days a week (recumbent bike with arms, 5lb dumbbells and squats). I wash dishe, run after my kiddos, maintaining my house. I weight 115-118 pounds depending on the day.

NOW I'm doing 5:2 and then eating my maintenance calories 4 days a weekv(most days going over). With 1 cheat day. Every single day (even on my 5:2 days I try to get 60 grams of protein in and keeping my macros on target) Cheat days can consist of anything. From tacos to fast food. Just depending on what I crave. I log most everything. I do however keep low sugar most days, even cheat days. Because I'm not a sweet tooth. I'm a savory and meat tooth! So I'll have a juicy rib eye with fries and broccoli. Etc....

I lost about 5-6 pounds doing it the other way. We live and learn! Lol

PAV8888

lookonthingsabove wrote: »

Well it didn't work! haha.
I was loosing weight.

I'm 5'2 a stay at home mom of 9. My life is pretty sedentary. I mean I workout low impact from 7-8:30 am 5-6 days a week (recumbent bike with arms, 5lb dumbbells and squats). I wash dishe, run after my kiddos, maintaining my house. I weight 115-118 pounds depending on the day.

Your issue is and remains that (for the vast majority of people in your situation, INCLUDING yourself unless you have individualized calculations and proof that you are a below average burner of calories--which so far you haven't presented) you are UNDERESTIMATING your activity level and your calories for maintenance.

Just because you FEEL you're sedentary or you would "name" yourself so; it doesn't mean that you are!

The "labels" sedentary, lightly-active, active, very active are just labels for a caloric estimate that multiplies your BMR by an activity-factor. They actually do not have the "mental connotation" that people give to them. They're just numbers! 1.25 , 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 to be exact. You claim you're a 1.25. You're probably closer to a 1.6 without exercise or 1.8 since you're not counting your exercise separately like you're supposed to.

NO STAY AT HOME MOM WITH MULTIPLE CHILDREN is "sedentary" i.e. a person who on average is standing and moving around somewhere between 30 and 45 minute in a day taking about 3500 steps.

So you're starting from the wrong numbers.

You can use a weight trend application to monitor weight over time.

You may want to START with what you believe to be your current maintenance 11K maintenance split over 7 days as your daily goal while still allowing your "indulgent" day to take place on TOP.

Then you can then monitor how your weight stabilizes over time and keep increasing the calories till you have multiple weeks of increased weight.

Don't worry too much if you're doing this carefully... you won't have extreme changes in weight other than what may come about from extra food in the tummy or extra water retention from eating out.

Unless, of course, you're trying to eat as little as possible to save money or something, in which case you can continue to try to push your body downwards to eating the least amount you can get away with????

Most of use though tend to enjoy having extra food if we can afford to!

cwolfman13

lookonthingsabove wrote: »

Well it didn't work! haha.
I was loosing weight.

I'm 5'2 a stay at home mom of 9. My life is pretty sedentary. I mean I workout low impact from 7-8:30 am 5-6 days a week (recumbent bike with arms, 5lb dumbbells and squats). I wash dishe, run after my kiddos, maintaining my house. I weight 115-118 pounds depending on the day.

NOW I'm doing 5:2 and then eating my maintenance calories 4 days a weekv(most days going over). With 1 cheat day. Every single day (even on my 5:2 days I try to get 60 grams of protein in and keeping my macros on target) Cheat days can consist of anything. From tacos to fast food. Just depending on what I crave. I log most everything. I do however keep low sugar most days, even cheat days. Because I'm not a sweet tooth. I'm a savory and meat tooth! So I'll have a juicy rib eye with fries and broccoli. Etc....

I lost about 5-6 pounds doing it the other way. We live and learn! Lol

That's not remotely sedentary. Sedentary is literally sitting on your butt all day and barely moving. Even people with desk jobs typically aren't actually sedentary. I have a desk job, and even without deliberate exercise I'm not sedentary even though I sit most of the day. I usually have somewhere between 6000-8000 steps per day just doing stuff around the office and doing stuff at home when I'm off. Sedentary is less than 3000 steps in a day.

lookonthingsabove

So I should change mfp to lightly active? Thanks for the help!

PAV8888

Are you counting your 1.5 hours of exercise separately or are you lumping them into your lightly active setting?

You're very active (or more) if you're lumping them in and not counting them separately like you're supposed to.

Most moms with a COUPLE of children are lightly active to active before exercise if they're "running after their children". You have NINE.