Done With 1200, I Want to Lose and Start to Build Muscle

raquelfisher7

From what I have read on the boards, the "1200" diet is not a sustainable or healthy long term weight loss program. I want to stop and do this the right way.

I'm 5'7'' currently at 185. I started around 2 weeks ago with 1200 calories and have lost around 8 lbs with a healthier diet, the reduced caloric intake and adding cardio 5x/week for an hour. I also eat back most of my exercise calories. I have around 40 lbs to lose based on my initial goal but I am worried that I will get to that point and still be unhappy with my body despite seeing that magical number on the scale. I would like to tone and build muscle (having 2 babies has ruined my stomach) but I am so confused reading past posts about how to do it. Lose fat/build muscle at the same time? Lose fat first? It seems like the consensus is that you cannot gain muscle with a deficit, but t's all so confusing to me as a newbie and I'm still learning, so here I am.

I have used Scooby's calculator and it looks like me TDEE-20% with my activity level is 2014 calories, leaving me a small deficit and bringing me down to the .4 lb/week weight loss range. However I feel good eating the amount I am now, I feel like they are significantly better choices than I was making and I feel satisfied everyday, after every meal. I am in the mindset that I get 1200 but will push myself to burn 600-700 calories in a workout so I can eat most of them back. Is it better for someone in my situation to continue like I am, just with a higher calorie goal than to just simply do TDEE-20% and not log calorie burns? I feel like it would be a real struggle as I am so motivated to work harder if I can report high number calorie burns.

Would a program like Jillian Michael's 30 DS or Ripped in 30 in addition to the cardio I already do be a good starting point to getting on the right track as far as eating more and segueing into building muscle, while still losing a good amount of fat? And after 30 days or a mid-goal weight then I start to lift more heavily? Although I must admit, I still haven't figured out what "heavy lifting" will mean for a woman, I just know it's something I will need to research and prepare for.

I apologize in advance for the questions and misunderstanding but I know there are a lot of you out there who have done an awesome job losing weight and transforming your body and your knowledge is so helpful to the newbies : )

lindustum

I will just chip in here and say "building muscle" probably refers to "showing more muscle definition through lesser fat" and NOT the actual process of bulking (i.e. eating over your maintenance), which I'm sure this discussion will otherwise derail into.

stevesilk

Raquel, let me start by saying congratulations on your start. You are already moving in the right direction! Here are a couple of things to consider.

If your TDEE is 2014, then 20% less will put you around 1600 per day, or a reductionof 400 calories. If you were to go to 500 calories (losing approx 1 lb per week) you would be around 1500 calories. Either of those seems like a good place to start.

Losing fat while you are gaining muscle is a SLOW process, and made difficult because your feedback is not scale related but measurement related. It's iterative, meaning you are constantly adjusting. Being in the middle of this myself, I would not recommend this for a newcomer, although everyone's different.

Personally, I would add a day or two of weightlifting into your routine, and keep doing what you are doing. You're making progress and losing weight. Tweaking might involve exchanging some protein calories for the carb calories, which combined with the weight work (preferably heavy-it's relative to your own fitness level) will help you maintain your muscle mass.

Worry about gaining muscle when you have made significant progress townard your weight goal. What you want to do while you are losing is minimize the muscleloss, and lifting havy a few times and eating more protein will help with that.

Relax about the future. Live in the present. You are making progress towards your goal. Keep it up. One day at a time. You'll get there.

Francl27

First thing - scooby overestimates the calories you burn from your activity. I exercise every day, but sit a lot otherwise, so I have to pick the 'lightly active' setting to be actually close to my real TDEE (I figured it out with my fitbit). So that's something to keep in mind. I'm not sure how much you exercise but for your stats, TDEE-20% being 2000 seems like a lot (it's pretty much my TDEE with walking 5 miles a day in average. I'm 160 lbs, 5'5", and 35). In the end your TDEE-20% should be pretty much what you get with MFP if you add your exercise calories, so maybe 1800 for you (assuming you workout 6 days a week). The only difference with TDEE-20% and MFP is that you get to eat more on your days off, but overall it should be pretty similar to MFP (at least until you're closer to your goal).

Second, no you can't build muscle while on deficit, but by working your muscles, you can prevent your body from burning muscles, and preserve the muscles you have. So I'd definitely try and include some sort of strength/weight program. It's been very frustrating for me though, it's a lot of work and you don't really see any result, but I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

raquelfisher7

Raquel, let me start by saying congratulations on your start. You are already moving in the right direction! Here are a couple of things to consider.

If your TDEE is 2014, then 20% less will put you around 1600 per day, or a reductionof 400 calories. If you were to go to 500 calories (losing approx 1 lb per week) you would be around 1500 calories. Either of those seems like a good place to start.

Losing fat while you are gaining muscle is a SLOW process, and made difficult because your feedback is not scale related but measurement related. It's iterative, meaning you are constantly adjusting. Being in the middle of this myself, I would not recommend this for a newcomer, although everyone's different.

Personally, I would add a day or two of weightlifting into your routine, and keep doing what you are doing. You're making progress and losing weight. Tweaking might involve exchanging some protein calories for the carb calories, which combined with the weight work (preferably heavy-it's relative to your own fitness level) will help you maintain your muscle mass.

Worry about gaining muscle when you have made significant progress townard your weight goal. What you want to do while you are losing is minimize the muscleloss, and lifting havy a few times and eating more protein will help with that.

Relax about the future. Live in the present. You are making progress towards your goal. Keep it up. One day at a time. You'll get there.

Thank you! I truly appreciate your advice, it has given me some great feedback and insight. Again, thank you for being so supportive and encouraging.

raquelfisher7

Lindustum- Yes! Thank you : )

Frankl27- I chose one activity below what I actually do. I think it was the 3-5 workouts vs the 6-7, although I am a pretty active SAHM in addition to going to the gym M-F working out for an hour at least and burning between 500-700 calories. After my hour of cardio I already do some amount of weight/strength two times a week, just on my arms though as me legs are usually pretty gelatinous by that point.

So I'll set my goals to 1500 to start while I still have a while to go and then I shouldn't be eating exercise calories back. That way I am netting around 1500 and that should hopefully keep me losing weight without losing muscle, is that right?

MissStatement

I am 5'7.5" and started out at 175, so a bit lighter, but after playing around with the numbers I settled on 1500 calories/day. I started out just eating the deficit and not regularly exercising, and cheating on the weekends, and was losing at the rate of about 1/2 pound a week. I got down to about 163 and stalled. I added heavy lifting, and although I've only been at it for about two weeks I can see the difference in my shape, and I've lost an additional 2.5 lbs. Since I am lifting, I am not as concerned with the scale weight, especially since I can see my body changing - that is much more of a positive influence than the 2-3 pound daily differences due to TOM, water retention/high sodium, etc. My weight really bounces around (I have had a 5 pound difference in one DAY) so rather than let the scale make me crazy, I am looking in a mirror at myself and focusing on the changes I can see. I have taken measurements when I started lifting but haven't done it again, I'll wait until about a month in.

I have always used machines in the past but have since switched it up to the old school, compound lifts. I do a full body workout 3X per week. Squats, deadlifts, pushups, dumbbell bench and overhead presses, planks, cable lat pulldowns and rows, hyperextensions and hanging leg raises are what I stick to. I lift heavy enough weights so that by the end of a second set of 8-10, I stop when I am about to break good form, so just about at the failure point. Heavy lifting means challenging your muscles and adding weight when the current weight no longer challenges you. It could be 5 lbs. or 50 lbs., all that matters is that you work hard to complete the set every time and add weight when you think you need to. There is a ton of info out there on the proper way to perform these lifts, and don't let any guys scare you away from the free weight room.

I have been much lighter than I am now, and I experienced what you fear - a smaller version of me but still flabby and not firm. I know now that cardio only is not the way to go for me, so I hardly do any. Oh, and I have had one child via c-section, plus I naturally carry most of my weight in my midsection, so I feel you on the stomach issues.

You will see the raging debates about building muscle while in a calorie deficit, and whether noobs can manage to do both at the same time, but don't get hung up on whether you believe it can be done or not. Your body will change, and it will change for the better, as long as you continue to challenge it.

ETA: I set my calorie goal at 1500 and I eat all of my exercise calories back. It is pretty difficult to estimate how many calories are burned while weight lifting without a HRM but I use MFP's estimate (go into cardiovascular and log it as "strength training" x number of minutes.

emirror

MissStatement just said almost everything I was going to say.

I aim for 1600
I was doing Stronglifts 5x5 but have added in more moves to target specific areas (EDIT - moves to target building certain muscles, not fat burning, you cannot spot-target fat, but you can spot-target muscles)
I do cardio just so I can eat more
I usually eat back most or all of my calories
My results are slower downward scale movement, but huge improvements in how I look.

I was at 1400 and was doing cardio and lighter weights. It helped me loose weight down to under 150. At that point, I started to become more focused on how I look, rather than on the scale (as long as there is overall downward movement, I am good). But, I needed to get down to a certain weight to feel more confident.

The very simple truth is that fat doesn't need fat to maintain itself; it needs food. Muscle needs fat to maintain itself; in the absence of fat, it deteriorates. So, if you only eat less, your fat will get used by muscle (and other organs). If you work on building the muscle, the muscles will use more fat. The more you work your muscle, the more fat it needs. This is why bodybuilders eat a LOT; because they have used all their fat, and have to constantly re-supply their body with fat to maintain their muscle.

The scale moves slower when you are using weights, because you are building muscle. So, how you go about this really needs to address what kind of progress you need to see *first*. If you need to see a specific weight, keep on doing what you are doing. If you need to see a physical change, do more weights.

raquelfisher7

MissStatement just said almost everything I was going to say.

I aim for 1600
I was doing Stronglifts 5x5 but have added in more moves to target specific areas (EDIT - moves to target building certain muscles, not fat burning, you cannot spot-target fat, but you can spot-target muscles)
I do cardio just so I can eat more
I usually eat back most or all of my calories
My results are slower downward scale movement, but huge improvements in how I look.

I was at 1400 and was doing cardio and lighter weights. It helped me loose weight down to under 150. At that point, I started to become more focused on how I look, rather than on the scale (as long as there is overall downward movement, I am good). But, I needed to get down to a certain weight to feel more confident.

The very simple truth is that fat doesn't need fat to maintain itself; it needs food. Muscle needs fat to maintain itself; in the absence of fat, it deteriorates. So, if you only eat less, your fat will get used by muscle (and other organs). If you work on building the muscle, the muscles will use more fat. The more you work your muscle, the more fat it needs. This is why bodybuilders eat a LOT; because they have used all their fat, and have to constantly re-supply their body with fat to maintain their muscle.

The scale moves slower when you are using weights, because you are building muscle. So, how you go about this really needs to address what kind of progress you need to see *first*. If you need to see a specific weight, keep on doing what you are doing. If you need to see a physical change, do more weights.

Thank you! The information about the relationship between fat and muscle made so much sense and cleared up a ton of confusion! I think I may need to lose more weight first and then work on changing my body once I get there. I was concerned about being too late because I have read a few comments about people regretting not doing both at once. I suppose my situation is different though and I have more work to do before jumping into weights and strength : )