Rate my back and shoulder workout

allother94

45, m, intermediate lifter, 500 cal per day deficit, lifting 3x a week: back/bi, legs/shoulders, chest/tri

Am I doing too much back and not enough shoulder? I am exhausted by the time I get to my bent over rows…

All are 3 sets with 12, 10, 8 reps of increasing weight, last set to failure. Increasing weight when I hit all reps.

Back day:
Deadlift
Pull up assisted
Lat pull down
Seated row
Bent over row

Shoulder day:
Overhead barbell press
Shrug
Reverse fly

Thanks!

allother94

@Carlos_421 @JBanx256

Any advice? Thanks!

allother94

Anyone, anyone…

Carlos_421

I don't think it's too much back work The same principle of 10-15 working sets applies to back as it does to chest (and pretty much the whole body, really). Increase your sets from 3 to 5 (but only if you go to something more like a traditional 5x5 approach...I don't know about that many sets using your current pyramid method) and your back workout actually looks pretty good, hitting both vertical and horizontal pulls.

But your shoulders are definitely getting underworked.
The overhead press hits your front and middle delts. So your middle delts (the big part that gives the broad shoulder look) are only getting 3 sets.
The reverse fly isolates the rear delt so doesn't really help the middle delt.

Shrugs really aren't a shoulder movement. Your shoulders move but it isn't the shoulder muscles doing the work, it's the traps, which you're already hitting on back day. I'd either move them to back day or just drop them.

The front head of your delts are getting plenty of work already because they also get worked with the chest, especially on the incline presses.
The rear delts also get worked in your rows. I'd keep the reverse flyes though, just because most people have underdeveloped rear delts so they're worth focusing on.

So if it were me, I'd mainly be trying to get more work to your middle delts.
Try adding some lateral raises and increasing the number of sets you do of the presses.

None of this is to say "what you're doing is trash."
Just a "if you want to make it better, here's what I recommend."

allother94

Thanks!

ninerbuff

Don't need to do a pullup and lat pulldown in same session.

No work for side delts so add in side laterals.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

allother94

Thanks!

Carlos_421

ninerbuff wrote: »

Don't need to do a pullup and lat pulldown in same session.

No work for side delts so add in side laterals.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Need? No.
Can? Definitely.

When you're only hitting back once per week, 3-5 sets of vertical pulls won't be enough volume.
Doing 5 sets of pull-ups and 5 sets of lat pulls is definitely more enjoyable (and more feasible) than 10 sets of pull-ups.

watts6151

What’s your current body weight?
What type of weights are u lifting ?
As an intermediate lifter your still doing assisted pull ups?

As a advanced lifter I’d be half dead by the time I reached bb rows

ciaoder

I'd consider moving bent over rows up in the rotation when you're fresher and can preserve good form and maybe pick a cable movement to finish the session off.

Pull up/ lat pull down makes sense if you're varying the grip.

Running every movement to failure, especially in energy deficit, may be less than optimal for recovery. 3x/week probably not a problem, and for sure do what works for you.

Love those Arnold presses for cooking all those delts at once.

allother94

watts6151 wrote: »

What’s your current body weight?
What type of weights are u lifting ?
As an intermediate lifter your still doing assisted pull ups?

As a advanced lifter I’d be half dead by the time I reached bb rows

I’m 220 at 6’3 just finished a 6 month strong lifts 5x5 bulk

I could go unassisted pull-ups, but the extra bulk fat keeps my reps to failure around 8, 6, 4 over 3 sets…

I am half dead for the rows. My max one arm 10 rep is 90lb and I struggle with 50s. Moving those up for sure.

Let me make some changes to my routine and repost…

Thanks!

allother94

How’s this?

Deadlift x3
One arm Dumbbell row x3
Wide grip pull-up x3
Narrow grip lat pull down x3
Shrug x2

Carlos_421

allother94 wrote: »

How’s this?

Deadlift x3
One arm Dumbbell row x3
Wide grip pull-up x3
Narrow grip lat pull down x3
Shrug x2

Trade the shrugs for seated cable rows x 3 and you've got a solid intermediate routine in my opinion.
Shrugs isolate the upper traps.
The seated rows will hit the traps overall as do the deadlifts.
Adding the rows back in gives you six sets each of vertical and horizontal pulls.
But that's just what I'd do. Your goals may vary.

Carlos_421

kenlchrzanowski wrote: »

I'd consider moving bent over rows up in the rotation when you're fresher and can preserve good form and maybe pick a cable movement to finish the session off.

Pull up/ lat pull down makes sense if you're varying the grip.

Running every movement to failure, especially in energy deficit, may be less than optimal for recovery. 3x/week probably not a problem, and for sure do what works for you.

Love those Arnold presses for cooking all those delts at once.

I agree that the pyramid style "increasing weight, decreasing weight, all sets to failure" approach probably isn't best for hypertrophy.

3-5 working sets of a straight 8-15 reps, coming within a rep or two of failure is likely going to be much better.

allother94

Don

Carlos_421 wrote: »

allother94 wrote: »

How’s this?

Deadlift x3
One arm Dumbbell row x3
Wide grip pull-up x3
Narrow grip lat pull down x3
Shrug x2

Trade the shrugs for seated cable rows x 3 and you've got a solid intermediate routine in my opinion.
Shrugs isolate the upper traps.
The seated rows will hit the traps overall as do the deadlifts.
Adding the rows back in gives you six sets each of vertical and horizontal pulls.
But that's just what I'd do. Your goals may vary.

I’ll try that, thanks!

nossmf

I, along with most male lifters, have an underdeveloped back compared to my chest/shoulders after years of focusing on bench presses and other mirror muscle moves. To compensate I now do 4 back sets for every 3 chest sets.

I dislike having both deadlifts and BB rows the same session, as this puts tremendous strain on your lower back to maintain posture for each. By swapping DB rows for the BB rows, you can support your upper body with one arm and reduce the strain while still getting the same basic movement.

As a general rule, I put the moves I want to work most/heaviest early in the routine, and save the isolation moves for later. I frequently have both pullups and pulldowns in the same day, but the pullups are first, while the pulldowns will be towards the end, since keeping proper form will be easier.

allother94

nossmf wrote: »

I, along with most male lifters, have an underdeveloped back compared to my chest/shoulders after years of focusing on bench presses and other mirror muscle moves. To compensate I now do 4 back sets for every 3 chest sets.

I dislike having both deadlifts and BB rows the same session, as this puts tremendous strain on your lower back to maintain posture for each. By swapping DB rows for the BB rows, you can support your upper body with one arm and reduce the strain while still getting the same basic movement.

As a general rule, I put the moves I want to work most/heaviest early in the routine, and save the isolation moves for later. I frequently have both pullups and pulldowns in the same day, but the pullups are first, while the pulldowns will be towards the end, since keeping proper form will be easier.

Good. I like DB rows better…

Thanks!