Just curious about a couple of things...

Bluetail6

For those who are Premium subscribers:

I have been using MFP since 9/1/2020 with much success. Although weight loss hasn't been perfectly linear, I'm almost there. The two things I'm curious about...

1) Do any of you have Negative Calorie Adjustment enabled? I am considering doing it. I am in the normal weigh range for my height, but not at goal weight/range quite yet. I'm wondering if it will make a significant difference in what my Garmin is currently recording. I wear my smartwatch and sync regularly. I have been working on improving/increasing my N.E.A.T in addition to planned movement. If you have Negative Calorie Adjustment enabled, do you feel it is truly a more accurate measurement? I know that MFP says it is, just curious about your experience.

2) Do any of you track exercise without increasing your calorie goals? This is something I've never really thought about doing so far; however, I'm curious about it. It appears, to me, to be a more useful way of tracking exercise if one is using a BMR calculator. I'm thinking this because a BMR calculator calculates daily calorie needs already including activity level, etc. I've pretty much been eating a portion my exercise calories based on the custom calorie, macronutrient, and micronutrient goals I have set for myself. I'm just curious.

I will be checking back periodically to see what you have to say. TYIA

cwolfman13

1) Whether negative adjustments is more accurate or not simply depends on how well you actual activity jives with what you have selected in MFP. You only get negative adjustments when your actual activity is less than what you've selected as your activity level in MFP. If that is happening regularly I would say activity level needs to be adjusted to reality.

2) I'm not sure what you mean by BMR calculator. Your BMR is your Basal Metabolic Rate...the calories you expend merely existing. It doesn't include anything else. There are two methods of calorie counting, the TDEE method and the NEAT method (MFP). With TDEE your activity level includes everything...your BMR, day to day hum drum, and exercise. Using TDEE you wouldn't log exercise and eat back calories as they are already included...the exception would be if you have a device synched and you're actually more active than what you selected as your TDEE and you would get a reconciliation adjustment.

MFP uses the NEAT method where your calorie target is based on your BMR and day to day hum drum only. Exercise isn't accounted for in your activity level which is why you log exercise after the fact and get additional calories to account for that activity.

Done correctly and comparing apples to apples rate of loss goals, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. Either way you go about it, exercise should be accounted for as fitness needs fuel, as does recovery.

DancingMoosie

I just used the basic form of MFP, logged food and exercise, lost weight. I don't think you need to over think it or complicate things unless you are not getting results

sijomial

You want a TDEE calculator not a BMR calculator - two very different things and BMR in isolation is a pretty useless estimate for anyone not confined to bed!
I maintain on roughly double my BMR because I'm very active and exercise a lot.

Your tracker is giving you a daily variable TDEE estimate, TDEE calculators give you an average TDEE estimate. Two different ways which should average out over time, personally I would hate to have a same every day eating goal but that suits other people.
Also my exercise is far too variable and some needs targetted nutrition on the day to average it out.

AnnPT77

1. Do you ever have days where Garmin doesn't give you a positive calorie adjustment?

2. Do you find that the all-day calorie estimate that shows up in Garmin Connect is consistent with your scale weight results given your logged calorie intake, averaged over a multi-week period?

If you always (or very nearly always) get a positive adjustment from Garmin (looking across a full day), the implication is that your MFP activity level is generally lower than your actual activity level, and negative adjustments wouldn't change anything. If you frequently get no positive calories from Garmin, that's a different scenario.

If your weight loss rate plus intake added together (averaged for a long-ish time period, like a month) are close to Garmin's average all-day calorie estimate for you for the same time period, your Garmin is a decent-ish calorie estimator for you, in my view.

If your Garmin's a decent estimator for you, and you sometimes/frequently have days with no positive adjustment from Garmin, you can use that day's data to spitball the effect that negative adjustments would be likely to have on your calorie goal, by comparing your Garmin's all-day estimate to your intake plus approximate deficit that day.

Obviously, none of this is exact, but ballparking it is just math, I think. (I don't synch my Garmin to MFP at all, because it's a poor all-day calorie estimator for me, but so is MFP. They're not wrong, in fact they share a consensus on my needs, roughly. I'm just mysteriously non-average. If I did synch it, I would enable negative calories, but that's just me.)

JMO, but I'm assuming - hoping - others will chime in if they believe the above is materially inaccurate.

Bluetail6

@cwolfman13

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I follow what you are saying about the activity level I set up in MFP actually matching my actual activity level. I am set to sedentary in MFP. Aha, I didn't get that it a negative adjustment would only happen if my actual activity level doesn't match the activity level I set in MFP. It makes sense to me now... I don't think I need to enable that feature at this point.

Sorry about my phrasing in question 2. I am familiar with TDEE method. I was using the BMR calculator at Calculator.net, which I believe takes into account TDEE. I'm referring to their chart on the right that compares calorie needs based on activity level. So basically, if I am using the TDEE method with an accurate assessment of my activity level, that is where I would turn that feature (MFP exercise tracking) off. I am using the MFP (NEAT) method. I didn't know that's what they called it! Just so much clearer now, seriously.

I appreciate your final analysis. Again, thank you!!

Bluetail6

@DancingMoosie

Thank you for responding. I am getting great results basically logging food and tracking exercise. There are the nuances of the various methods I was curious about.

Bluetail6

@sijomial

Thank you for responding.

Sorry about my phrasing in the second question. I do understand the TDEE calculator method. I was using the Calculator.net BMR calculator. I was referring to their chart on the right that compares daily calorie needs based on activity level.

However, I didn't consider what you are saying about my tracker giving me a variable TDEE estimate, vs. a TDEE calculator giving me an average TDEE estimate. I don't currently use the TDEE method, as I don't eat the same amount daily. I do have what I consider a general goal, depending on what my exercise is for the day. Exercise isn't exactly the same every day either.

I have targeted nutritional goals that have made a world of difference. So, depending on what I eat to meet them, my calorie goals could change for the day as well.

"I maintain on roughly double my BMR because I'm very active and exercise a lot." I am quite active, including exercise... You are impressive!

Bluetail6

@AnnPT77

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Do you ever have days where Garmin doesn't give you a positive calorie adjustment?

No. I don't have that feature enabled. However, on the rare day I don't get much movement in, there will be no adjustment in MFP at all. I didn't understand what it (negative calorie adj.) really meant until @cwolfman13 explained it.

Do you find that the all-day calorie estimate that shows up in Garmin Connect is consistent with your scale weight results given your logged calorie intake, averaged over a multi-week period?


Yes. I went back and compared my Garmin Connect all-day calorie estimate to my scale-weight results over 2 separate multi-week periods. I didn't use the holidays, where I was a little more "flexible" with my food logging... Thus far, reasonably consistant.

I can see where you say that negative adjustments wouldn't really change anything. Prima facie, it appears that my Garmin is a "decent-ish" calorie estimate. You make me think about it being a tool, in the toolbox, and certainly not an absolute. But a good tool, nevertheless.

Great suggestion about comparing Garmin's all-day estimate and negative calorie adjustments to the effects it would have on my calorie goal overall. Should I decide to enable that MFP feature, or not, your suggestion works for me.

Nothing wrong with a ballpark guess/estimate, IMO.

Again, I appreciate you very considered response.

sijomial

Bluetail6 wrote: »

@sijomial

Thank you for responding.

Sorry about my phrasing in the second question. I do understand the TDEE calculator method. I was using the Calculator.net BMR calculator. I was referring to their chart on the right that compares daily calorie needs based on activity level.

However, I didn't consider what you are saying about my tracker giving me a variable TDEE estimate, vs. a TDEE calculator giving me an average TDEE estimate. I don't currently use the TDEE method, as I don't eat the same amount daily. I do have what I consider a general goal, depending on what my exercise is for the day. Exercise isn't exactly the same every day either.

I have targeted nutritional goals that have made a world of difference. So, depending on what I eat to meet them, my calorie goals could change for the day as well.

"I maintain on roughly double my BMR because I'm very active and exercise a lot." I am quite active, including exercise... You are impressive!

Nah - not impressive, just retired and able to invest my time in the things I love!

Calculator.net TDEE calculator is pretty rubbish.
It can only give the vaguest of numbers as doesn't include daily activity (think of the massive difference between a construction worker and a desk jockey), doesn't give a differential for intensity, type or duration of exercise.
There are better ones (such as sairabbit) but TBH if you have been tracking a while your own numbers from your food tracking is what I would suggest using.

I think with your updates then either just continue to use your Garmin or use MFP's variable goal in line with exercise. Also think you should consider changing your activity level though as it seems you have it set too low (which is very common). I know some people prefer to always have positive adjustments from their activity and exercise but to me I'd prefer my base calories to be closer to my normal needs with a smaller adjustment (either way).

Bluetail6

@sijomial
I missed this post. I'll be back in a bit to comment!!🙂

Bluetail6

sijomial wrote: »

Bluetail6 wrote: »

@sijomial

Thank you for responding.

Sorry about my phrasing in the second question. I do understand the TDEE calculator method. I was using the Calculator.net BMR calculator. I was referring to their chart on the right that compares daily calorie needs based on activity level.

However, I didn't consider what you are saying about my tracker giving me a variable TDEE estimate, vs. a TDEE calculator giving me an average TDEE estimate. I don't currently use the TDEE method, as I don't eat the same amount daily. I do have what I consider a general goal, depending on what my exercise is for the day. Exercise isn't exactly the same every day either.

I have targeted nutritional goals that have made a world of difference. So, depending on what I eat to meet them, my calorie goals could change for the day as well.

"I maintain on roughly double my BMR because I'm very active and exercise a lot." I am quite active, including exercise... You are impressive!

Nah - not impressive, just retired and able to invest my time in the things I love!

Calculator.net TDEE calculator is pretty rubbish.
It can only give the vaguest of numbers as doesn't include daily activity (think of the massive difference between a construction worker and a desk jockey), doesn't give a differential for intensity, type or duration of exercise.
There are better ones (such as sairabbit) but TBH if you have been tracking a while your own numbers from your food tracking is what I would suggest using.

I think with your updates then either just continue to use your Garmin or use MFP's variable goal in line with exercise. Also think you should consider changing your activity level though as it seems you have it set too low (which is very common). I know some people prefer to always have positive adjustments from their activity and exercise but to me I'd prefer my base calories to be closer to my normal needs with a smaller adjustment (either way).

It took me a minute. Just a hellish week!! Not a bad one, a ton going on. What a blessing exercise is for mental health... I'm talking straight-up stress.

So, I got a chance to look at SailRabbit. Talk about a difference from Calculator.net. I bookmarked SailRabbit, lol. Not Calculator.what?

I am going to continue using my own numbers. However, it's nice to see what a decent TDEE calculator is all about.

I think your suggestion about changing my activity level in MFP is a good one. I do believe it is set too low. I exercise 5 to 7 days most weeks. And not just indoors, lol. When it is 18F+ above, I love, love x-country skiing and snow shoeing. Not to mention just walking. Yesterday was snowshoe heaven and exhausting. I live way North, and we have been getting snowstorm after snowstorm. I was born in this climate, it suits me. We also have aerobic equip and weights in our basement, lol. I hear you with respect to doing what you love. Don't get me wrong, I love warm weather and do a lot of biking and hiking, etc. in the Summer; just not 365 days of it. I digress...

I'll give you a shout out back on this thread once I settle into new MFP activity level. I think it will be more accurate.

Thanks again and be well. 🙂

heybales

Since Garmin does send workouts to MFP to show and do math with, I do enable Neg Cal adjustment.

If you are always above your activity level selected on MFP - it has no bearing on anything.

If I have a big workout day, like a really long ride - rest of the day can be well below sedentary, therefore the daily maintenance is wrong. If I have a deficit it would be made smaller or disappear.

So for that reason I have Negative enabled.
And on those days I'll easily get 200-300 negative adjustment. Seen 500 sometimes.
Of course I have an addition of the 1200-1800 calorie workout for the bike ride.

But still - 200 to 500 cal needed to be removed.

If you have even on big workout days always received even a small MFP adjustment, then Neg probably doesn't matter - in which case being enabled it would never be noticed until needed.

As to straight TDEE method, same eating level every day - can work well if your exercise and daily routine is pretty set and done.
If pretty variable - much more iffy.

Look at a week or months worth of Garmin Total Daily Burn for your TDEE if curious - forget TDEE calcs since you have better data - especially that site.

Increasing the MFP activity level won't change the end of day figures, only midday.
It only matters if set high, Negative is disabled, and you go below the level frequently in reality.


The negative to setting a high activity level - near the end of the day, MFP will get syncs from Garmin as to the TDEE up to that point in time - and it'll estimate rest of the day at your selected activity level.
Usually that is very inflated at the end of the day hitting the chair/couch/bed.
So it's estimate of your daily eating goal will be inflated - you hit it, and the next day on review after Garmin syncs again, you'll find you went over.
That inflation depends on how early you look at final goal figures, and really hit the couch/bed.

The positive is if you use MFP to literally tell you how much food you have for the day, and make short-notice decisions based on that - you won't have as much to make up in the evening as the math trues up.

But frankly most people get an idea about what their daily goal is going to be - and plan appropriately. There are only small adjustments based on big/small workouts, more/less active, ect that give extra snacks in the evening or bigger dinner.

Bluetail6

@heybales

Thank you for responding. I'll respond fully later, Tuesday!!