Smith Machine Deadlifts and Squats
allother94
Posts: 588 Member
If the goal of the deadlift and squat is to keep the bar moving straight up and down, why can’t I just use the smith machine? If the smith machine is my only option, how much gains am I giving up using it instead of free weights?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Replies
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Smith machine is ok if that's all you have...but I would personally just do different variations of squats and deadlifts. Like any machine, the smith machine is a fixed path and you don't have free range of motion. It feels much different squatting or deadlifting with a smith machine than with free weights. With free weights you are also engaging a lot more core and smaller helper muscles because you have to 100% control the bar and weight with your body whereas the smith machine assists you and prevents you from falling backwards or forwards or side to side, etc. This is why people are typically able to lift far more weight with a smith machine than with free weights...the machine is doing a lot of the work for you.1
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What if your form is bad? Wouldn’t a smith machine at least hold to correct bar path? Would it be better to do squats on a smith machine than free bar with bad form?0
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If your form is bad, you should go light and fix your form.
I wouldn't use the smith. One of the benefits of a compound exercise is getting the smaller muscles and stabilizers, and your core, working more. That said, afaict you can still make gains with the smith versus free weights, especially if a novice. For chest it may work as an isolation for the pecs, but I definitely wouldn't squat or dl with it. I'd want the full benefit of the lower body and core working together. There are plenty of alternatives for legs even if you don't have access to a barbell and cage, and only have db's: Bulgarians, goblet, lunges, Romanians, etc.1 -
Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…0
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allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Where’s your evidence that they are an injury risk? There is no evidence I am aware of other than anecdotes. Most injuries I think are more to do with people putting too much weight on the bar for them rather than the movements themselves bring inherently ‘risky’, I mean the squat is a movement all toddlers do very naturally and with no risk at all!1 -
Not hard to learn. May be hard to perform CORRECTLY for some individuals because of lack of flexibility in hips and calves. But then again doing them on a Smith ISN'T going to be any different if that's the issue.allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Get an assessment on how you squat and deadlift.
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cupcakesandproteinshakes wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Where’s your evidence that they are an injury risk? There is no evidence I am aware of other than anecdotes. Most injuries I think are more to do with people putting too much weight on the bar for them rather than the movements themselves bring inherently ‘risky’, I mean the squat is a movement all toddlers do very naturally and with no risk at all!
I have doctor bills….
If you can’t progressive overload, you won’t progress. You can’t progressive overload unless you put weight on the bar. A lot of people I talk to say if you go heavy on deadlift, you will injury yourself even now and then…. Everyone’s form will slip once or twice if you lift a lot…0 -
It sounds like your mind was already made up before you asked the question in the OP.2
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Nope. My mind was made up that deadlifting has some risk involved, but that is a fact. My mind is not made up as to whether I should use the smith machine or barbell.
I would like to know how much benefit I am giving up using the smith machine instead of the barbell so I can weight the risk vs. the reward in order to make a decision. I wouldn’t ask a question if my mind was already made up…0 -
Simultaneously overloading the bar and lifting with poor form for your personal physical geometry is, IMHO, a bigger risk on the Smith Machine. If the supporting muscles are too weak for the weight and/or your form is bad, in the case of free weights, you're pretty much just not going to be able to lift the bar (rather than repeatedly continuing through the movement straining stuff in a potentially bad position). And weak stabilizing/supporting muscles increase the risk of hurting yourself doing other things in your life.1
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allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Interesting. How do you sit on the loo and stand up again? How do you lift something heavy off the floor or set it down again? Those are both essential functional exercises. One of the reasons I lift (apart from actually enjoying it and making it my sport) is that I want to be able to get on and off the loo in my old age without support, and so that I can continue picking up bags of shopping or heavy garden pots.
I have no experience of using the smith machine but any lifting has to be better than none. Heavy lifting will not always result in injury (it’s technique or weakness rather than weight which causes most injuries I suspect - certainly in my case anyway), so do what you feel safe and comfortable. I’ll carry on pushing myself and risking injury as life is too boring otherwise, and the feeling of smoothly snatching a new PB is just awesome 😀1 -
I think you just have to be smart about it and listen to your body. Learn to do the movements properly and slowly progress. At some point you will plateau...and then it's time to reassess how to move forward. But it takes a while and effort to get there. Every movement we do involves risk, but we move anyway. Driving a car involves risk, yet we still drive and ride in vehicles. If an exercise feels to difficult in the moment, back off. Lifting is not all or nothing. There are benefits even if you do not progress on weights every workout/week, etc. You can change up the volume, tempo, depth, pause, form...2
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claireychn074 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Interesting. How do you sit on the loo and stand up again? How do you lift something heavy off the floor or set it down again? Those are both essential functional exercises. One of the reasons I lift (apart from actually enjoying it and making it my sport) is that I want to be able to get on and off the loo in my old age without support, and so that I can continue picking up bags of shopping or heavy garden pots.
I have no experience of using the smith machine but any lifting has to be better than none. Heavy lifting will not always result in injury (it’s technique or weakness rather than weight which causes most injuries I suspect - certainly in my case anyway), so do what you feel safe and comfortable. I’ll carry on pushing myself and risking injury as life is too boring otherwise, and the feeling of smoothly snatching a new PB is just awesome 😀
There is a difference between standing from the loo vs standing from the loo with 315lbs on your back. A difference between pick up a garden pot and picking up 400lbs. I want to progress, but at my age, even with good form, the risk of injury is getting too great.0 -
Sounds like the smith machine is not the answer. Maybe a trap bar…1
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allother94 wrote: »claireychn074 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Interesting. How do you sit on the loo and stand up again? How do you lift something heavy off the floor or set it down again? Those are both essential functional exercises. One of the reasons I lift (apart from actually enjoying it and making it my sport) is that I want to be able to get on and off the loo in my old age without support, and so that I can continue picking up bags of shopping or heavy garden pots.
I have no experience of using the smith machine but any lifting has to be better than none. Heavy lifting will not always result in injury (it’s technique or weakness rather than weight which causes most injuries I suspect - certainly in my case anyway), so do what you feel safe and comfortable. I’ll carry on pushing myself and risking injury as life is too boring otherwise, and the feeling of smoothly snatching a new PB is just awesome 😀
There is a difference between standing from the loo vs standing from the loo with 315lbs on your back. A difference between pick up a garden pot and picking up 400lbs. I want to progress, but at my age, even with good form, the risk of injury is getting too great.
How much can you safely lift now?1 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »allother94 wrote: »claireychn074 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Deadlifts and squats are too hard to learn. Too much risk of injury. I want something easy and safe…. But still want deadlift and squat benefits…. Those other exercises are also complicated…
Interesting. How do you sit on the loo and stand up again? How do you lift something heavy off the floor or set it down again? Those are both essential functional exercises. One of the reasons I lift (apart from actually enjoying it and making it my sport) is that I want to be able to get on and off the loo in my old age without support, and so that I can continue picking up bags of shopping or heavy garden pots.
I have no experience of using the smith machine but any lifting has to be better than none. Heavy lifting will not always result in injury (it’s technique or weakness rather than weight which causes most injuries I suspect - certainly in my case anyway), so do what you feel safe and comfortable. I’ll carry on pushing myself and risking injury as life is too boring otherwise, and the feeling of smoothly snatching a new PB is just awesome 😀
There is a difference between standing from the loo vs standing from the loo with 315lbs on your back. A difference between pick up a garden pot and picking up 400lbs. I want to progress, but at my age, even with good form, the risk of injury is getting too great.
How much can you safely lift now?
I was doing strong lifts 5x5 and was deadlifting 350x5. I hurt my back warming up at 315. I currently am only lifting 300x8 as I’m afraid to go heavier…. And I am always worry if “today is the day” my back goes out again…0 -
Just do a hack squat instead of smith machine squats. It's much better at targeting the quads if that's what you're looking for. Also why even deadlift? Everyone should ask themselves why they do certain exercises.0
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Just do a hack squat instead of smith machine squats. It's much better at targeting the quads if that's what you're looking for. Also why even deadlift? Everyone should ask themselves why they do certain exercises.
No hack squat at my gym. Thinking trap bar deadlifts are the answer…
Currently, I’m deadlifting because every program tells you to deadlift. I’ve been told too many times on this forum that you shouldn’t change a proven program…1 -
But you also have to do what works for you. I do my own program and listen to my body. I know at some point, progression will be slow to none and might even go backwards. I mean, we aren't getting any younger. I look at it similarly to running. At some point, I'm not going to want to run farther or faster. Maintenance is ok. Moderation is ok. Lighter deadlifts are ok. Unless you want to compete...2
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You don't have to deadlift, especially if you are worried. Switch to rows, pulldowns, pullovers, pullups, plenty of options. If it's your lower back you're worried about you should also try to improve your core muscles, not ignore them by using the smith machine. For squats, try the front squat or goblet if you're worried about barbell rear squat for your lower back.2
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allother94 wrote: »Just do a hack squat instead of smith machine squats. It's much better at targeting the quads if that's what you're looking for. Also why even deadlift? Everyone should ask themselves why they do certain exercises.
No hack squat at my gym. Thinking trap bar deadlifts are the answer…
Currently, I’m deadlifting because every program tells you to deadlift. I’ve been told too many times on this forum that you shouldn’t change a proven program…
You can do a trap bar deadlift with dumbbells like this, it's much more of a natural movement :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdyp97SLrpI
Just need two steps and dumbbells.1 -
I'm 47 years old. I started weight training when I was 15, including squats and deadlifts. I've never once been injured performing those or any other lift.1
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It depends on how hard you push yourself, if you lift really heavy you will get some injuries it's almost inevitable. If you squat and deadlift with minimal weight sure you might not get injured, but why squat and deadlift in the first place if you don't plan on going heavy.1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm 47 years old. I started weight training when I was 15, including squats and deadlifts. I've never once been injured performing those or any other lift.
I’m 45 and have done deadlifts since 16. I never had a problem either. Until one day…. Pop! It happened so fast and laid me up for 2 weeks…. Talking with doctors and chiropractors during the aftermath, they all said going heavy at my age is a bad idea. Even my trainer told me they don’t know any long time weightlifter that doesn’t have back issues from deadlift and squats. Where there is smoke, there is fire…
Sounds like the trap bar might be the answer. I really want to lift heavy again, heavy for me at least…1
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