Runner/cyclist debating complete change of fitness goals - help!

misssixtea

Hi all

I've been running and cycling fairly consistently 11 years. Never super-fast but pretty consistent. Three marathons, 5k PB 21:23, 10k 44.58, best times were around 7 years ago. More cycling than running in the last few years - last years mileage 3500m. I'm 46, single mum to two teenagers, work full time.

Last 6 months have been really difficult. I've had a knee injury and frozen shoulder (almost resolved) Awaiting knee joint injection next week and am just coming out of 10 weeks of no running. I've had a stressful house move, work has also been stressful. End result: I've lost my routine and my mojo. I've been running a bit but feel like a lead weight. Gradually getting back up to 100 miles/week on the bike - mainly outside now the weather's great, cycling with a relaxed club which is awesome, but regaining cycling fitness is increasingly feeling like a huge time suck.

What I'm stuck on is constantly berating myself to start a fitness plan and execute said plan. Accept that life's busy for now, focus on one thing and build fitness in that discipline. For example, perhaps I aim to keep up with the B group on club rides. At the moment, I'm cycling with a group of less-fit, older cyclists which isn't really challenging me, but there's no way I can keep up 17/18 mph for 50/60 miles on B group club rides.
I know the only way to improve fitness is looking at 10 hrs week on the bike, really.

So then I go back to running, which is my first love. But I seem to be constantly injured! I've tried a few 5ks since my 10 weeks of running, it's taking me 30 minutes and it's no longer enjoyable. It exacerbates my knee pain.

So I'm trying to reassess what I actually need from my fitness goals. I LOVE being outdoors, love the bike and running. But I'm feeling they don't love me! I've put on weight, I'm getting older, I have a new partner and life is busy - 10 hours a week on the bike can feel like a chore rather than fun - yet I know it's the key to being fitter and therefore enjoying it more. And I can't get out of that loop.

I'm contemplating rejoining the gym and wondering whether I need to step away from my cardio-junkie, outdoorsy goals. I'm comfortable in a gym for free weights/machines (not classes - not me at all).

I suppose what I'm asking is: if I could commit 10 hours a week, say - or at least an hour a day - to some kind of training, what is the optimum for a middle-age woman who wants to be fit and healthy? Is it time to give up cycing and running and instead concentrate on all-round strength and lose the cardio?

It would take a big shift in my mindset but I'm wondering if it's one I need to take.

Thanks if you've read this far!

Claire

littlegreenparrot1

Might be worth trying things that change the emphasis - triathlon or obstacle races for example.
Still outdoors but require more cross training which might help prevent the injuries.

What surface do you run on? If it's roads try trail running if you can. The varied terrain can be easier on the joints.

I've been a trail runner for years and am currently not feeling the love. I'm doing more Pilates and swimming, and hiking the long distances at the weekend. Next thing is to do some proper strength training and stop wimping out 😆

misssixtea

Thanks Littlegreenparrot! I love trail running, but since moving to a new town a few years ago I’m pretty limited to running around the streets. I do miss it!

Have dabbled with triathlon, I’m not a great swimmer but maybe that could be a renewed focus.

Walking is a great idea - an amazing way to see the great outdoors. So much more inspiring to be outside in the landscape than stuck in an expensive gym.. even if I know strength work is critical in avoiding injury..

sijomial

"I know the only way to improve fitness is looking at 10 hrs week on the bike, really."

Sorry Claire but good news, that's not even remotely true!
That volume builds endurance but endurance is only one aspect of fitness.

Long slow to medium effort rides it seems like you are doing are not a time efficient way to build other aspects of your fitness such as power, speed endurance, sprinting, FTP, VO2 max.....
Easy/moderate volume is a predominantly a way to build base fitness (but not the only way).

e.g. when I'm forced to cycle indoors by weather I will focus on FTP boosting drills, long and short intervals of different intensities, sweet spot, speed endurance. Those sessions will only typically be an hour as that's as much as I can stand indoors.

I'm training for a Century this month and although I've worked up to a 10+ hours per week schedule my initial fitness build was more like 5hrs/week. Would say that although group rides and social rides are enjoyable they are often sub-optimal for training as you are riding at other people's pace.
Currently a lot of my hours are endurance focussed but a good training session in the Surrey Hills will do more for my fitness than far more steady pace hours.

In the end it depends on your priorites which can include enjoyment over fitness. Something fresh such as a challenge, event or riding in different areas can rekindle enthusiasm. Audax events are great ways to explore new areas.


Can't help with running as my knees are a mess and can't even tolerate a mile of running these days.

Djproulx

Your experience is so similar to many folks I know. Most in the group of roughly 20 folks I train with (45-65yrs old) have come from a "running first" background. At least 5 Boston Marathon finishers and a dozen Ironman finishers in the mix, many of whom have shifted to trail running (100 mile trail races are in vogue these days: Western States 100, Leadville 100, Wasatch, etc.)

A common theme among the group is that we are all active at SOMETHING 5-6 days/week, with the specific focus shifting based on season, injuries, a new destination race that pops up, the need for a marathon or triathlon qualifying time, etc.

At 64 yrs old, and as a frequently injured, mediocre runner (1:55:00 Half Marathon, 23:30 5k) my primary focus has been triathlon over the last 6-7 years. The multisport aspect is challenging, yet less pounding than say Marathon training. The other benefit is that the significant training volume in multisport brings such good aerobic fitness that my run volume doesn't need to be very high in order to maintain it.

Regarding swimming - You are EXACTLY in the sweet spot for starting a multisport pursuit. Almost everyone starting out has one strong discipline and a particular weakness. You are experienced in 2 of the 3 disciplines. Swimming takes practice to achieve good form, but is very doable and also a low/no impact workout. I've come to really enjoy swim workouts on the days following a long run or bike.

And regarding cycling, one of the most fun parts for me is cycling with my friends during a triathlon build. There are many strong cyclists among the triathlon crowd. My suggestion is to find a triathlon club and join a weekly ride as a way to find out if it is a fit.

Finally, strength sessions are key to injury prevention, so it's not an all or nothing approach for me. I do more strength work in the winter (with a trainer) but maintain a once per week routine all season long.

misssixtea

Thanks @Djproulx - interesting to hear I'm not alone! Your times are not far off mine. I have toyed with triathlon, managed a few sprint triathlons - used to be in a club where I previously lived. Sadly, the nearest tri club to my new town trains 30 mins away. I am currently a member, but driving half an hour for a swim session on top of a busy evening with parenting duties just hasn't worked.

Although I did enjoy the swim training, and could see I was making progress - it's just so slooow....

@sijomial that's a good point, I suppose I'm just lazy. Somehow signing up to easy, long group rides which involve coffee, cake and chat seems easier than short intense sessions! How do you motivate yourself to get out there on your own - or do you have a ride buddy? I definitely train better in company!

Tried the local gym this evening with a free day pass. Loud pumpy music, muscle-bound men in their twenties chatting around the weights, pretty intimidating. And not outside. Left thinking I am so definitely an outdoorsy kinda girl.

I wish I didn't want to do literally EVERYTHING.

sijomial

clairenotready wrote: »

@sijomial that's a good point, I suppose I'm just lazy. Somehow signing up to easy, long group rides which involve coffee, cake and chat seems easier than short intense sessions! How do you motivate yourself to get out there on your own - or do you have a ride buddy? I definitely train better in company!

Nah - not lazy at all. Lazy would be sofa surfing not riding!
I'm a bit unusual in that I prefer lone wolf riding for most of my rides as I get to choose when, where, how long, how fast.....

I'm not an early bird rider at all which rules out a lot of club / social rides. As I'm retired I can go out in the middle of the day when I perform at my best and the temperature is more stable. (Raynaud's can make cold rides a real pain.)
Indoor training on a bike is harder as I don't enjoy it but I also can see worthwhile fitness benefits from the more structured and controlled indoor training, I've always been good at training whatever sport has been my focus.

I've always been very self-competitive and with cycling there's always a challenge if you want one: pace, distance, Strava PR's, monster hills, FTP score.....

Having events in the diary also gives me a focus and a deadline. Four weeks to go my Ride London-Essex century, hence the charity cycling top in my picture. But I've used that event focus to build my fitness steadily since January.

Djproulx

sijomial wrote: »

clairenotready wrote: »

@sijomial that's a good point, I suppose I'm just lazy. Somehow signing up to easy, long group rides which involve coffee, cake and chat seems easier than short intense sessions! How do you motivate yourself to get out there on your own - or do you have a ride buddy? I definitely train better in company!

Nah - not lazy at all. Lazy would be sofa surfing not riding!
I'm a bit unusual in that I prefer lone wolf riding for most of my rides as I get to choose when, where, how long, how fast.....

I'm not an early bird rider at all which rules out a lot of club / social rides. As I'm retired I can go out in the middle of the day when I perform at my best and the temperature is more stable. (Raynaud's can make cold rides a real pain.)
Indoor training on a bike is harder as I don't enjoy it but I also can see worthwhile fitness benefits from the more structured and controlled indoor training, I've always been good at training whatever sport has been my focus.

I've always been very self-competitive and with cycling there's always a challenge if you want one: pace, distance, Strava PR's, monster hills, FTP score.....

Having events in the diary also gives me a focus and a deadline. Four weeks to go my Ride London-Essex century, hence the charity cycling top in my picture. But I've used that event focus to build my fitness steadily since January.

In reading this thread and thinking more about your original post, I would echo @sijomial's comment: There is nothing like having a race on the schedule to help me focus. Without that deadline, I tend to drift.

So given your stated dissatisfaction with your current situation and lack of clear direction in your fitness plan, I'd offer the following observations for your consideration:

First, you are unsatisfied with your current fitness level and "stuck" regarding the path forward. Your previous performance in both cycling and running was fairly advanced, but there are perceived obstacles at the moment preventing you from simply resuming as before.

Cycling: While you love cycling, 10 hrs of cycling/week to achieve club ride fitness is significant and you aren't terribly motivated or able to commit to that training effort currently. The result is that while you can cycle comfortably with casual cyclists, this is not "scratching the itch" enough to be fulfilling.

Running: You also love running, but injury rehab has left you slower and you are not at an ideal racing weight. (BTW: Welcome to the club, lol!)

The net result is that while you really enjoy both of these things, you're not sure that your current situation will allow you to achieve an appropriate level of success and satisfaction in either discipline.

You're considering alternatives, such as a strength focus, but your first love is outdoor pursuits.

So you're asking yourself: " Given my interests and time limiters, is there a path forward that would bring me both fitness and some personal satisfaction if I devoted 10 hrs per week in pursuit of a particular objective?"

My answer is "YES". Based on the information you shared, you enjoy outdoor sports, cycling and running, but you're not motivated enough by club riding to devote 10hrs/week to the bike in order to regain that fitness. You love to run, but have suffered injuries and your current weight is not your ideal racing weight. Finally, you have done some swimming, but getting swim time in isn't easy.

I believe that you need a big goal event to focus on, such as a 70.3 distance triathlon. Why?

1. Training can easily be done in 10hrs/week.
2. Multisport training increases aerobic capacity and muscular endurance gradually, without the pounding of only running, or the pure repetition of only cycling.
3. Swimming is a low/no impact workout.
4. Having a daunting challenge forces participants to focus on the goal date, then execute a plan to build fitness for race day. This requires commitment by the athlete, which is something you're looking for currently.
5. The challenge as well as the feeling of accomplishment in long course triathlon is considerable. IMO, the 70.3 distance is the best distance. It requires not only execution of the 3 disciplines, but also a strategy to address nutrition and pacing across the three segments. There's a lot to think about, and that's half the fun!

Finally, the camaraderie is a big part of the fun. Often, participants do their own solo training during the week, then get together to ride, run and/or swim on weekends. This becomes not only great training, but a needed social boost.

misssixtea

@Djproulx I think I love you. I mean. Not literally.. but a full Ironman has been a dream for years, but not realistic. But 70.3.. that gets me excited!

Can't tell you how helpful it was just to hear you reflecting my situation back to me. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that.. thank you!

misssixtea

@sijomial thank you for your comment, too. I'm reflecting on it. I think I've definitely been missing a focus, and a deadline. I do use Zwift and found a real drive in going up a race category early last year, it's also super-easy for me to fit in before kids, work and general day-to-day madness.

Lots to think about.. I'll press pause on the gym membership for now, I think.

Djproulx

clairenotready wrote: »

@Djproulx I think I love you. I mean. Not literally.. but a full Ironman has been a dream for years, but not realistic. But 70.3.. that gets me excited!

Can't tell you how helpful it was just to hear you reflecting my situation back to me. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that.. thank you!

How to make an old dude blush, lol!!

I’ve done lots of tri’s including 7 HIM distance and 2 full IMs. The 70.3 is the best! Big crowds, lots of energy, very supportive atmosphere.
And no rush for 140.6 distance. I waited and did my first at 60 yrs old.

Look forward to hearing more.

jamesha100

I am a little puzzled when you say that you enjoy riding/running with others but that classes at the gym are not for you. My main interest is "audax" riding which is long distance cycling with distances of typically 200km to 400km.

I wanted to get fitter for this and also find it difficult to find the time to train on the bike so I joined a gym near my workplace and have been doing two spin classes and three kettlebell classes each week plus a few exercises using the weight machines and, in three months, it has made a big difference to both my general fitness and performance on the bike. I feel stronger on hills and my average heart rate to keep the same pace has dropped by about 10bpm.

I really enjoy the classes - there is a sense of camaraderie and they fit into my day easily.

AnnPT77

This would be a sharp turn, but have you considered paddle sports? Are there options to try, near you?

I'm a rower (boats when I can, machines only when I must) - the long, skinny boats like in the Olympics, but mine is much slower, since I'm W 60-69 lwt competitive class.

Some of our best new rowers are the cyclists, because it exploits their leg strength and balance . . . but gives them more core and upper body. Still, that's not an option everywhere. (I've learned that even here, where it is an option, the average person doesn't realize it, because it's underfunded for publicity, and niche. In my club, one need not own a boat, can use the club's boats after taking a learn-to-row class. Annual membership has been $275, full season, the last few years.)

There are other paddle sports, though, more accessible, at varied price points, but the options still may not be all that well-publicized: Canoeing, kayaking, stand-up paddleboard, maybe others. In places with lakes/rivers, there may be rentals (kind of expensive, usually), classes, a used-boat market, end of season sales, free or cheap try-out events, etc. For rowing, certainly, and I think some of the others, there are camps that enable "learn to", that are reasonable as a vacation. In recent years, an all-inclusive week at a good rowing camp, with elite-level coaching, can cost less (all inclusive), than just the hotel part of a city vacation of similar duration.

These may not be for you, but they're less-visible options, can be athletically very challenging, more competitions available than the average person realizes, low impact but all potentially high intensity . . . and mostly outdoors.

On the Winter side of things, ditto for cross-country skiing.

avatiach

For triathlons, it turns out that bicycling speed is much more important than swim speed.

Maybe you should try yoga or Pilates as I think some things about the core strength you develop could make a big difference.

Also have you checked out the book Chi Running? There are lots of good injury prevention tips in it.

misssixtea

Hi @AnnPT77 - thanks for replying. I tried sea kayaking for the first time off the Isle of Skye last summer and really enjoyed it! My partner and I were definitely inspired to do more.. (he actually ended up building his own wooden kayak - a flat pack type affair! ). I have stand up paddleboards too so tend to do that with the kids. We live half an hour away from Oxford, which has a long rowing heritage.. I guess the drive makes it less accessible as a go-to activity. but definitely something I'd like to do more of, thanks for reminding me!

@jamesha100 good point! I was probably thinking of the aerobic/Les Mills type of classes when I said they're not really me - I would rather run through a wood in the rain than jump up and down on a step indoors, if that makes sense. I have done a few spin classes in my time - they're really hard! I guess because I'm a regular Zwift user and have a smart turbo I'm more inclined towards that than a spin bike. I think you're absolutely right on general strength/kettlebells etc resulting in improved bike fitness, a good reminder that slogging out the miles on easy cycles is not really the way to get results, which I think is the same point @sijomial was making.

@avatiach good reminder - I have done yoga and pilates in the past and they're a definitely a good and necessary compliment to running and cycling, I've just got lazy and out of the habit. Thanks for the book recommendation!

@Djproulx I may have rejoined British Triathlon and just MAY be looking at races in August. Goddamn you!!!

Djproulx

@clairenotready Haha, You're welcome.

Assuming some base fitness, an August race would give you a 12-14 week build time frame. That works. All you need to do is hit the " Register Now" button and then the fun starts.

cwolfman13

I had a similar experience a few years ago. I was pretty into endurance cycling for a number of years and was training almost year 'round for centuries and half centuries. My issues were three fold...for one I was a little burned out on training and riding 100+ miles every week and it just wasn't as fun as it was when I started...it had become very redundant and a chore. Second, I had a lot of things changing in my life in regards to available time with my kids getting a little older and having homework and soccer practices and soccer games and archery tournaments and track and field, etc and I couldn't very well let my wife take care of all of that while I was off riding around on my bike. Third was that I had become increasingly injured. Never anything too serious, but constant little things that would come and go and then come back again over and over. At one point I felt that I was only really fully healthy for maybe a couple of weeks at a time.

There's a whole world in between being healthy and fit and being super fit and in 2019 I decided I just needed a break from all of the structure and rigors of actual training. I remained active but in a much more recreational capacity and branched out into a lot more MTB and cross-country riding and hiking. Of course, my fitness capacity decreased, but not to a level of being unhealthy or lacking in physical fitness altogether...I just couldn't go do 50 miles on the bike on a whim anymore. I took 2019, 2020, and 2021 off from doing any kind of event or structured training. I became a lot happier with what I was doing and enjoying more active recreation with my wife and my two boys and most importantly, I healed up.

For 2022 I've gotten back into some more structured training...to this point, namely in the weight room. But I actually just signed on for a sprint triathlon in early August and today is my first training day for that and I have a 14 week program set up. I figure a sprint is a very doable distance to get in shape for given where I'm at currently and also not a huge time suck training wise...depending on the week, it's about 5 hours on average with a couple of weeks being around 7 hours for everything (bike/run/swim/strength. Realistically, the other goings on in my life pretty much dictate 6-7 hours maximum plus I still want to have time to go hiking and whatnot with my family.

I may not be as fit as I was when I was specializing in one discipline, but I think I will be more well rounded...and I may not be as fit overall as when I was riding 50 miles just because it was Saturday...but ultimately I'll still be well ahead of gen pop and plenty healthy. At this point I don't know if I'll ever get back into 10+ hour weeks of training...certainly no time soon as life won't realistically allow for it. But I've also had the last couple of years to really reflect and my perceptions have changed and I think going forward I will be very content to maybe train and participate in one or two events per year and just spend the rest of my time just having fun and being active. I am looking forward to the challenge of training for my sprint, particularly as I haven't run in about 8 years...but I also kind of have a feeling that when 14 weeks is up I'll be pretty happy to just go hiking with my family.

misssixtea

Hey @cwolfman13 - really interesting to hear your journey. I’ve been stuck (am stuck) between knowing I can’t do it all yet not wanting to let it go. Plus I have a new partner now, I would always choose a walk or an easy MTB ride with him over a 50 mile club run!

It really is hard to strike the right balance, I’ve been thinking about this a lot. I know some friends who do Ironman after ironman (god knows how they can afford it) but their romantic relationships seem to suffer. My kids in their late teens, in some ways it’s easier to train more now - yet they still seem to need me just as much somehow.

I’m sure you’ll really enjoy training for the sprint distance. It’s really doable, and getting back into race day atmosphere will probably make you want to do more! I’ve only managed sprints before as I’m a really nervous and poor swimmer. I’m getting in the pool tomorrow for the first time in probably a year, having had frozen shoulder since November. First step towards a standard/open water tri and then the big goal might be 70.3 which @Djproulx set me last night. Although I don’t think he realises just how bad my swim is!!

Djproulx

Just enjoying the enthusiasm here based on new triathlon plans being formed.

With that said, here's a little 8 minute clip from IM Mont Tremblant in 2018. The first 2:30 is IM marketing, but after that, look at the people being interviewed on race morning and at the finish line. Notice the energy and smiles all around, even though many were nervous before the race started (including me). My favorite moments are near the end, where a 75 year old crosses the line and the last guy finishes after 6 previous failed attempts to make the cutoff. Mike Reilly, the Voice of Ironman, calls him and Ironman and the crowd loves it. I enjoyed seeing that guy out on the course multiple times that day. Even though he was suffering, he wore that smile for over 16 hours.

https://player.vimeo.com/video/285783628

misssixtea

@Djproulx well, that video motivated me enough to get back in the pool today for the first time in..... a very long time! Thank you!

ritzvin

littlegreenparrot1 wrote: »

Might be worth trying things that change the emphasis - triathlon or obstacle races for example.
Still outdoors but require more cross training which might help prevent the injuries.

What surface do you run on? If it's roads try trail running if you can. The varied terrain can be easier on the joints.

I've been a trail runner for years and am currently not feeling the love. I'm doing more Pilates and swimming, and hiking the long distances at the weekend. Next thing is to do some proper strength training and stop wimping out 😆

Ditto on the trail running. My knees are much less forgiving of too many miles on pavement versus dirt.

Definitely add in the strength training.. that adds strength fast and will improve the cycling and running (except in cases where you aren't recovered before the next ride/run). I found it made me much faster in both running and cycling. And much less fatigued versus distance done. Which may help prevent injuries resulting from form breaking down.

Personally, I like to keep the running in my schedule to not lose that conditioning, but when it comes to cumulative calorie burn, I find cycling to be the winner by a lot... If I don't push it excessively, then I can ride for hours potentially every day.. which, in my case, is definitely not remotely doable with running.

cyndit1

The best thing I can do when I struggle is sign up for an event and train for It. During the pandemic it was virtual events but I trained hard anyway and found it didn’t matter to me if they were live or virtual. It was the act of the commitment that keeps me motivated.

jjpptt2

I've been in and am still in a similar situation. 2 things about your scenario stand out to me...

First -- You can't be injured.
If running results in injuries, you need to stop. Or at the very least dial it back and supplement with something will help with injury prevention.

Second -- Get back to loving the things you love.
If having certain goals take the fun out of it, change your goals/focus. Less time spent doing something you love is better than spending more time on something that feels like a chore/obligation.


And just as a footnote...
If you're heavier, less trained, and older than what you used to be, then you can't have the same standards/expectations as you had previously. I've been trying to come to terms with this for the last few years and it's crippling for my ego. But an 8minute mile running or a 20mph average cycling is no longer realistic for me. I can't judge myself based on what I used to do. If that's screwing with you, find a way to shift your perspective. Easier said than done, but IMO it can play a big role and shouldn't be overlooked.