Wendler vs Mehdi. Input on GAINING STRENGTH?

GODfidence

Okay so basically I'm about to start my 1st bulk after maintaining for too long.
I'm 72.5 inches tall,between 180-182 and my goal is to end up putting on 10-15
Pounds(including fat) over the next 16 weeks. Ive lifted for a few months but either in a deficit
Or maintenance so I'm expecting newbie gains to contribute to that weight a little.
Which would be the best program to gain strength? I don't want fake puffed up muscles with no strength,
I genuinely want to be stronger because Im weak as s***. I find the 2 most popular are SL and wendlers 5/3/1.
I've been doing strong lifts but since I'm not in a surplus I haven't experienced progress.
Any tips,insight,advice would be awesome.
Btw,Im not going on a eat everything in sight bulk.
Aiming for a 250-350 calorie surplus with good macro ratios.
Thanks.

jasonheyd

I like the variety of Wendler's system, but I'd probably look at Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" routine for a good starting 5x5 program (instead of SL5x5), and then head into Wendler or even All Pro's Simple Beginner's Routine after that.

I'm currently doing SBR, and looking at Wendler as an intermediate program to advance into.

GODfidence

Bump

millerll

5/3/1 is better suited for someone with experience in heavy lifting. From your post, you sound like you're relatively new to lifting. I would start with SL or something like that until you build a solid muscle base and have down the basics of the main lifts. After that, if you're still not satisfied with your strength gains, then you could start 5/3/1. Good luck on your bulk!

Vonwarr

Starting Strength, Stronglifts, or 5/3/1 are all good strength based programs. 5/3/1 tends to be a bit more complicated for a beginner's needs though.

Take your pick as to which one appeals most, because the best program is the one you will stick to!

Edit: I've been doing Sheiko powerlifting for a year now (I don't recommend unless you have a lot of time to spend in the gym and a masochistic streak), and have been debating seeing how 5/3/1 would suit me.

rjmudlax13

bump

Snow3y

As Miller said, 5/3/1 is great if you've been lifting for some time and are not all-new to it... I find it cant create a great base for your body.. But the 5x5 is great itself too, I'd go with that as a beginner to lifting to be honest

Just choose 1 and stick with it, as long as you're doing something!

CarlKRobbo

TBH, Once you go into a surplus, you should hit a few gains. SL\SS are best for a solid base, I did a Full Body 3 times a week for 9 months.

As others have already said, 5/3/1 is good but a bit advanced, Even then it's not for everyone, I found the weights ridiculously light, even after 3 cycles! And YES, I followed it to the letter,

neandermagnon

I 2nd everyone who says get on a decent beginner programme like starting strength or stronglifts first, and milk out the gains you get from those programmes as long as possible then switch to a more advanced programme

I made the classic mistake of doing intermediate training programmes without ever having done a proper beginner routine and made very little progress, and wondered why other women could lift much more than me....... since doing stronglifts I've doubled the weight i can squat and more than doubled the weight I can deadlift, and added quite a bit to my bench press, and I haven't reached the point yet where I'm no longer making progress from this programme so not yet ready to switch to an advanced one

Mrsallypants

5/3/1 has a program for beginners in the book. It's a full body workout, very similar to Stronglifts and Starting Strength programming.

You really have to experiment to find what works for you. If a program isn't working for you and you're getting enough calories, protein, and rest between workouts, you should experiment with other options.

DaniH826

Which would be the best program to gain strength?

Starting Strength.

Read the book, too.

Stronglifts is really a variation of Starting Strength (5x5 rather than 3x5, in A/B rotation).

Sarauk2sf

As Miller said, 5/3/1 is great if you've been lifting for some time and are not all-new to it... I find it cant create a great base for your body.. But the 5x5 is great itself too, I'd go with that as a beginner to lifting to be honest

Just choose 1 and stick with it, as long as you're doing something!

Agreed.

Docmahi

You should honestly look at a 5x5 linear progression program (SS, or my personal favorite the Ice Cream Fitness novice 5x5)

Wendler is an amazing program (I ran it for 15 months) - but if you are still relatively new to lifting it wont be as optimal as a straight up 5x5 program - I really honestly believe you will get more of a benefit from a 3day a week 5x5

I personally think wendler is a more intermediate program - I used it way to early and while I made good gains strength wise on it - I think I would have benefited from a program that emphasized the squat more. Only squatting once a week is fine when you are at that 'intermediate' squat strength level but when you are starting I think you really get your best bang for your buck doing multiple squat days. That being said if you are deadset on wendler - then just pick one of the simple strength templates (you can find a lot of the templates on blackironbeast.com)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feY6vi6ORXo <--- I firmly believe however that is the best 5x5 IMO, others may certainly disagree

trojanbb

madcows 5x5 is the most tried and true strength routine out there for intermediates and beginners, just do it until you stall and then try something new.

I would avoid starting strength if you have any future interest in bodybuilding. it often leads to unbalanced physiques with bad proportions

Gwyn1969

Just make sure that whatever you pick you milk your novice potential by adding weight to the bar every workout. When you can no longer do that, and you have to add weight every week instead, at that time you can add complexity to your programming.

haroon_awan

I've been doing strong lifts but since I'm not in a surplus I haven't experienced progress.

You do not need to be in a surplus to get strength gains.

From my understanding 5/3/1 is generally for an "intermediate lifter", this may be based on time spent following a structured program and/or strength levels on squat, bench and deadlift. 1+ plus of lifting and ~300/200/400 on the big 3 (for males) depending on bodyweight may put you on the "intermediate" phase when 5/3/1 would be appropriate, otherwise stick with 3x5 or 5x5.

jmg000

Wow this is a great thread - love this topic. Chiming in. Begin Rant.

1) Read Mark Rippetoe's books 'Starting Strength', first 6 chapters of 'Practical Programming', and Mehdi's 'Strong Lifts' Booklet. You will automatically be smarter than 90% of the people in a gym without ever lifting a weight.
2)If you're a Rank Novice (No experience with Proper Barbell Training - Especially Squat and Deadlift) - Always start with a true Novice Program. Pick either Starting Strength 3x5, Strong Lifts 5x5, or even Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 Novice Program (Basically an enhanced version of SL). And Start with empty bar weight. Use this time to learn the technique.

In my case, I started with Starting Strength but could not get the hang of Power Cleans, so I switched to Strong Lifts 5x5. Started very light, learned 'How' to do the lifts correctly especially the Squatl Continued on that with steady progress for 7 months. Eventually started stalling on the 5x5 volume, I wasn't able to fully recover in time to progress for the next workout. So I decided to make a programming change.

3) After a few stall or weight resets on your initial novice program, (where you can't recover quickly enough for the next workout), you may need to slightly adjust your program. Try Starting Strength Advanced Novice Program, or Strong Lifts 3x5. These have lower volume or incorporate a "light" day in the middle of the week, which will allow more recovery time and continue a rapid rate of progression.

I went with SS Advanced Novice Program, and was able to progress for 7 more weeks. By the seventh week, recovery ability was feeling over-taxed so decided to switch to a True Intermediate Program.

4) When you can't fully recover in 48 hours after a training session to progress at the next workout, And you've experienced multiple weight 'Resets' in your novice programming - It may be time to switch to an Intermediate Program. Read the rest of 'Practical Programming, and read Wendler's 531.
5) Pick a good Intermediate Program. Texas Method, Madcow5x5, or Wendler 531. I recommend Texas Method Initially - It's the simplest and easiest to transition to.

I've run Texas method for 9 weeks with steady weekly progression. But after almost a year of 3x a week Fullbody training, I've started to get bored. I'm switching to 531 this month to get some new variety.

ilovedeadlifts

5/3/1 is better suited for someone with experience in heavy lifting. From your post, you sound like you're relatively new to lifting. I would start with SL or something like that until you build a solid muscle base and have down the basics of the main lifts. After that, if you're still not satisfied with your strength gains, then you could start 5/3/1. Good luck on your bulk!

All of this.
Start with a basic 5x5 program until you start stalling. And EAT!
Then go into 5/3/1.