An Apology
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BarbMessimer wrote: »BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »You are simply excited about what you are doing and the success you are having. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Sure enough, intermittent fasting is far from the only method, but since it is the only method you have ever found that works for you, you are completely right in saying so. If people are criticising you for that, just ignore it. They are simply projecting their own insecurities on you. Keep up the good work, don't give up and don't keep quiet. You may well be able to help some people by talking about what works for you.
Thank you for that. My intention was to help others and that's why I took the time to write a post. After dieting almost my entire life, depriving myself and counting calories, only to gain it all back and getting heavier and heavier each year, I was beside myself with exhilaration to have found something that worked. I went from being bedbound to being able to walk again. It has been like a miracle.
At the ripe old age of 74, I was morbidly obese and had given up completely. Never wanted to ever diet again until I decided to try Intermittent Fasting. Now I'm 76 and down 60 pounds, and I thought if I could do it at my age, others could too. I guess that was a false assumption, but I know that just cutting calories for me never worked in the long run. I gained back my weight and then some like 99% of people do. This time (with IF), I've been able to keep the pounds off. From what I've read, it has a lot to do with your hunger and appetite hormones. They are more stable when you practice IF.
I see that if I initiate a post again that I will have to be careful how I word it. I'd sincerely like to help others (I'm a nurse and that's always been my M.O.) and don't want to put anyone off. Thanks again for your reply.
I am another that is very thrilled that you decided to stick around. Your story has value and will inspire and help many. Wording the message correctly is necessary for the newbies that are searching for their road to weight loss. Some will try your way and it will be a good fit with them. Others will fail and it's important that they then don't give up and will be aware that there are other things to try.
Most of us on here are happy that there are multiple ways to reach goal and want people to succeed. Best wishes for the New Year and reaching your next goal.6 -
BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
Your intentions are good. That's all that counts. As for being careful how you word things, I'd like to offer this thought: you are who you are, not who others want you to be or seem. Being careful in wording things can easily dilute or even destroy the message you are trying to convey. At some point, words become a travesty. The weight loss world is full of euphemisms and words that are used to "soften" a message or cover it up. That helps no one. Reality is what the facts are, and they deserve to be named appropriately, not covered up by some random term or phrasing that only hints at what is being talked about.BarbMessimer wrote: »BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »You are simply excited about what you are doing and the success you are having. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Sure enough, intermittent fasting is far from the only method, but since it is the only method you have ever found that works for you, you are completely right in saying so. If people are criticising you for that, just ignore it. They are simply projecting their own insecurities on you. Keep up the good work, don't give up and don't keep quiet. You may well be able to help some people by talking about what works for you.
Thank you for that. My intention was to help others and that's why I took the time to write a post. After dieting almost my entire life, depriving myself and counting calories, only to gain it all back and getting heavier and heavier each year, I was beside myself with exhilaration to have found something that worked. I went from being bedbound to being able to walk again. It has been like a miracle.
At the ripe old age of 74, I was morbidly obese and had given up completely. Never wanted to ever diet again until I decided to try Intermittent Fasting. Now I'm 76 and down 60 pounds, and I thought if I could do it at my age, others could too. I guess that was a false assumption, but I know that just cutting calories for me never worked in the long run. I gained back my weight and then some like 99% of people do. This time (with IF), I've been able to keep the pounds off. From what I've read, it has a lot to do with your hunger and appetite hormones. They are more stable when you practice IF.
I see that if I initiate a post again that I will have to be careful how I word it. I'd sincerely like to help others (I'm a nurse and that's always been my M.O.) and don't want to put anyone off. Thanks again for your reply.
As has been stated repeatedly already, the apology did not relate to her talking about what worked for her, it was about it sounding like her way was the only way.
That's not a case of euphemisms, words becoming a travesty, or covering up reality or anything like that.
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BarbMessimer wrote: »BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »You are simply excited about what you are doing and the success you are having. That is nothing to be ashamed of. Sure enough, intermittent fasting is far from the only method, but since it is the only method you have ever found that works for you, you are completely right in saying so. If people are criticising you for that, just ignore it. They are simply projecting their own insecurities on you. Keep up the good work, don't give up and don't keep quiet. You may well be able to help some people by talking about what works for you.
Thank you for that. My intention was to help others and that's why I took the time to write a post. After dieting almost my entire life, depriving myself and counting calories, only to gain it all back and getting heavier and heavier each year, I was beside myself with exhilaration to have found something that worked. I went from being bedbound to being able to walk again. It has been like a miracle.
At the ripe old age of 74, I was morbidly obese and had given up completely. Never wanted to ever diet again until I decided to try Intermittent Fasting. Now I'm 76 and down 60 pounds, and I thought if I could do it at my age, others could too. I guess that was a false assumption, but I know that just cutting calories for me never worked in the long run. I gained back my weight and then some like 99% of people do. This time (with IF), I've been able to keep the pounds off. From what I've read, it has a lot to do with your hunger and appetite hormones. They are more stable when you practice IF.
I see that if I initiate a post again that I will have to be careful how I word it. I'd sincerely like to help others (I'm a nurse and that's always been my M.O.) and don't want to put anyone off. Thanks again for your reply.
That - the bolded - is a wonderful thing, and I hope you'll continue to participate, sharing your personal experience, plus any practical tips you may have for people who've decided to try IF themselves.
IME different things work for different people, including those of us who are older, or those who've dieted many times. I have no reason to doubt that IF was transformational for you, and I think that's great, sincerely.
While I believe it's important to encourage people to recognize that any given strategy is out there and can work, I would hate to see anyone believe there's only one possible way to succeed. Belief in a method is important, or we won't even start. However, if a method fails for someone, I want them to have room to believe that the method failed for them, not that they failed or are a failure personally. Anyone can learn from their experience, and try something else.
There are various sub-groups that seem more likely to lack a strong sense that success can happen at all, and our demographic (I'm F, 67) seems like one of them. I think hearing about successful people like you can really help, in those situations.
Please do keep participating!5 -
would hate to see anyone believe there's only one possible way to succeed. Belief in a method is important, or we won't even start. However, if a method fails for someone, I want them to have room to believe that the method failed for them, not that they failed or are a failure personally. Anyone can learn from their experience, and try something else
The above is why words matter and why differentiating between cause and effect (or method and results) is important.
If it wasn't for MFP forum posts clearly spelling out that in the end effective caloric balance management is what changes one's weight level, I would still be obese wondering why this or that diet isn't working for me
And this is from a person who actually used the little paper calorie books in his youth... and still managed to mislay the message.
IF works for you 👍
And if IF ever stops doing so for you look for alternative methods to control your caloric balance instead of concluding that it is your fault things are no longer working.
It is just a method. Great one if (and while) it suits you. As with many methods it has some good points and some bad.
Mostly good if you're obese and it is helping you lose weight at an appropriate pace.
It's not the only method by a long shot. And it is discouraging for people who "fail" for them to end up believing that if they fail to lose while doing IF (or keto, or rubbing their head and tummy in opposite directions) that they are doomed to failure because a particular tummy rub method is the "best", or only, method to create the caloric deficit that is necessary to lose weight!😘
and actually to correct myself to create the caloric management conditions that are necessary to manage weight4 -
I really "get" why some people were offended. Losing weight and dieting by any means is difficult and here was someone shouting that she'd found THE way. I was like a new Christian convert trying to convert everyone to her way of believing.
Truth is, I'd heard about IF years ago but thought it was impossible for me to do. I watched a video where a man was saying he ate only once a day and had lost a lot of weight. I thought, "Of course, you did. You starved yourself. I could lose weight too if I only ate once a day... but that's impossible."
Once I did some research and learned about the health benefits, I decided to give it a try. I'm retired. don't have a family to cook for and am under no stress. So, this is doable for me. I also incorporate an unprocessed food diet, exercise and make sure I get plenty of sleep. I use every tool in the box.
Interestingly enough, I've hit a plateau and have started counting calories although I lost 60 pounds without counting any over 18 months. I sense my appetite is coming back and I'm determined to fight it and go on to lose my remaining 40 pounds.5 -
BarbMessimer wrote: »I really "get" why some people were offended. Losing weight and dieting by any means is difficult and here was someone shouting that she'd found THE way. I was like a new Christian convert trying to convert everyone to her way of believing.
Truth is, I'd heard about IF years ago but thought it was impossible for me to do. I watched a video where a man was saying he ate only once a day and had lost a lot of weight. I thought, "Of course, you did. You starved yourself. I could lose weight too if I only ate once a day... but that's impossible."
Once I did some research and learned about the health benefits, I decided to give it a try. I'm retired. don't have a family to cook for and am under no stress. So, this is doable for me. I also incorporate an unprocessed food diet, exercise and make sure I get plenty of sleep. I use every tool in the box.
Interestingly enough, I've hit a plateau and have started counting calories although I lost 60 pounds without counting any over 18 months. I sense my appetite is coming back and I'm determined to fight it and go on to lose my remaining 40 pounds.
Hang in there, you can get through this! IME, weight management is a series of self-analysis and problem-solving opportunities, experiments and tweaks of habits. If you stick with it, you can keep making progress, either because a phase will pass, or because you find some new twist in methods/tactics that helps. Wishing you continued success!2 -
It's good to see you using other tools too!
Increasing the amount of (let's not call them unprocessed because of definition issues, let's call them) non hyper-palatable foods in your diet is probably a good move and it has research support too!
Increased satiation levels seem to increase the likelihood one can reduce the total amount of calories they're taking in.
As to plateau's, smaller effective deficits do not always show up instantly on scale results. Yet, they can still create substantial results over time. The game is won by long term compliance. And weight trend apps can be used to better show off the underlying weight trend
I actually lost more weight (and more easily) by aiming for an accurately counted smaller deficit that I did achieve with a fair degree of consistency as opposed to just aiming to eat as little as I could... which always backfired.
Since you brought to mind some of Kevin Hall's research which was funded by them... I seem to remember... yes, they do have a "collection" of references maybe not for you, but for people starting up... https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/weight-management
The food and agricultural organisation of the UN have a fun page full of dietary guidelines from all over the world... some more useful than others, of course! (guidelines tend to bury some of the reasons for their recommendation. Some of the recommendations are of more relevance to people who do not log their intake and are not consciously controlling their food intake--certainly not the case for many of us on MFP
https://www.fao.org/nutrition/nutrition-education/food-dietary-guidelines/en/ 3 -
I am a big advocate of clearly laid out reasoning. In my opinion, the reasoning is at least as important as, and arguably more important than, the actual guidelines. Unfortunately, that seems to be a minority standpoint. Yet, reality out there shows that people are being misled by "atributed reasoning" instead of the actual reasoning underlying the guidelines. I see the myth of "CICO is wrong" as one of the saddest consequences of that.guidelines tend to bury some of the reasons for their recommendation.2 -
BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
I am a big advocate of clearly laid out reasoning. In my opinion, the reasoning is at least as important as, and arguably more important than, the actual guidelines. Unfortunately, that seems to be a minority standpoint. Yet, reality out there shows that people are being misled by "atributed reasoning" instead of the actual reasoning underlying the guidelines. I see the myth of "CICO is wrong" as one of the saddest consequences of that.guidelines tend to bury some of the reasons for their recommendation.
Along these lines, when people started posting about "Bright Line Eating" I got the book from the library. I had no quibbles with any of the science the Susan Peirce Thompson quoted, but I sure disagreed with her conclusions. It's been a while, but I think she was being absolutist and saying the only way to lose weight was to follow her Bright Lines, which are:- no eating sugar (including all sweeteners besides fruit)
- no eating flour (including alternative flours or processed grains)
- only eat during mealtimes without anything in between
- weigh and measure quantities of food according to a very specific food plan
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I completely agree with you. If those are her conclusions, you can legitimately ask questions about her reasoning capabilities.kshama2001 wrote: »BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
I am a big advocate of clearly laid out reasoning. In my opinion, the reasoning is at least as important as, and arguably more important than, the actual guidelines. Unfortunately, that seems to be a minority standpoint. Yet, reality out there shows that people are being misled by "atributed reasoning" instead of the actual reasoning underlying the guidelines. I see the myth of "CICO is wrong" as one of the saddest consequences of that.guidelines tend to bury some of the reasons for their recommendation.
Along these lines, when people started posting about "Bright Line Eating" I got the book from the library. I had no quibbles with any of the science the Susan Peirce Thompson quoted, but I sure disagreed with her conclusions. It's been a while, but I think she was being absolutist and saying the only way to lose weight was to follow her Bright Lines, which are:- no eating sugar (including all sweeteners besides fruit)
- no eating flour (including alternative flours or processed grains)
- only eat during mealtimes without anything in between
- weigh and measure quantities of food according to a very specific food plan
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