Serious question regarding my heart rate while running

smokinjackd

Im a 45 year old male, around 220, 6'1" tall, normal blood pressure and cholesterol. Have been fairly constantly active now for a couple of years whether it be elliptical, Spinbike, and running. I have completed a 5 k with no walking and am training to compete in a 10k next spring. Here's my concern, my hr numbers are way out of whack with any charts I can find. Every chart states that at my age my max heart rate Should be between 175-182, oh, one thing my resting heart rate is between 55-57, but here's my concern. Even at a moderate pace my heart rate gets jacked up to 170-180 pretty much throughout the entire run, I feel fine, can talk, no pain, no, well, nothing out of the ordinary, and my heart returns quickly to a normal 80-90 bpm rather quickly. I just can't maintain a 60-80% rate while running, on my Spinbike I can maintain 140-160, but running its always at my theoretical max? Am I doing harm?, am I some kind of freakish anomaly?, is there something wrong that I should be concerned about? I've tried finding advice by googling it but there just doesn't seem to be any straight forward answers online. Any and all help would be appreciated.

34blast

Well best to ask your doctor, that's what I did. My doctor is active and we play soccer together. I had him do some test and he claimed my heart was as healthy as any he has every seen for my age, but I need to lose some fat.

I'm almost the same build and age. I'm 6' 1", 215, 47, coming down from 230. Your numbers are similar to mine.

My resting heart is 50. My BP is 105 / 70

On the elliptical I use 20 (all the way up) with 12 out of 20 on the resistance. Its hard for me to get my heart rate up initially. But it typically runs in the 150s after about 5 - 10 minutes. I usually to go for 30 or 40. It takes longer if I do a stationary bike to get my heart rate up.

On running or the treadmill or outside, my heart goes up right away then comes down some. I run two different ways. One way is fast 8.5 then 6.0 intervals. The other way is more of a steady state. When I run the intervals, I can get it over 180, but typically goes to about 172 before I run slow again. During the recovery at 6.0 it usually drops in the mid 150s. I do this for 3 to 4 miles. about 25 minutes for 3 miles. Sometimes faster and sometime slower. When I ran outside last week, I do an all out sprint at the end of my run. My heart rate got to 187 according to my heart monitor.

Back when I was lighter about 190 (10 years ago), I used to run 6 miles 4 times a week in about 41 minutes. My heart rate would be the same, the only difference was if I ran slow it would drop down into the 140s. I think once I get my weight down it will be similar again.

My guess is that you are fine, but I'm not a doctor and I'm not concerned about mine at all.

smokinjackd

Thanks for the reply, it's good to hear that its not something that only I'm experiencing. I was thinking along the same lines, that maybe its just the extra padding that I'm having to keep in motion that is keeping my heart rate elevated.

1capybara

dont go by any charts saying, for example, max heart rate = 220 - age. in an ideal world, you go to a doc, and he tests to determine what your max heart rate is in reality. other than that, if you feel healthy doing it, and not dizzy or any symptoms of overwork, then its healthy. yes, running is alot harder than elliptical or biking, and im older than u and i regularly (daily) run at heart rate = 170+ and feel just fine doing it. those charts were developed for sedentary males recovering from heart attacks. (220 - age) applies to them, not to you or me.

DavPul

I have yet to find a single example of those exercise heart rate charts where they didn't do more harm than good. They are worthless and confuse and scare people for no reason.

EvgeniZyntx

I have yet to find a single example of those exercise heart rate charts where they didn't do more harm than good. They are worthless and confuse and scare people for no reason.

This - theoretical max is theoretical - with a deviation above and below.

One *should* go regulary to see a doc, especially if you are starting a new sport after years of inactivity. But if you want to monitor your own HR what is actually important is recovery time.

Look at how quickly you recover to a normal walking range HR. If you train, any recovery time that begins to exceed 20% suggests overtraining.

If your a casual runner, just run.

nerakma

Many moons ago, when I used to go to the gym regularly, I would find my heart rate (as measured by the gym equipment) was off the scale for my age. I did mention it to the gym staff, but they didn't seem overly concerned. As I felt no ill affects from it, I just went with the flow.

That said, I do get regular mild palpitations (strangely, not usually while exercising), so I may not be completely 'normal :ohwell: )

Edited for typo

wolfgate

As other have alluded, maximum heart rate is a very individual thing. Appears your is well above the average used on the charts.

You can find tests (done on a track) to approximate yours by searching on-line. They do, of course, require you to be able to perform at maximum effort for a certain period to get your heart rate up, so you have to be in enough shape to do them. But if you are, give it a shot. Then you can start using HR zones if you so choose.

Hellbent_Heidi

Seriously...see a doctor...internet medical advice is the WORST kind!

smokinjackd

Seriously...see a doctor...internet medical advice is the WORST kind!

Lol...yes, I was expecting a few of these responses, the question was more to see if the often very knowledgable people on this forum had more accurate info than I could find. My health is not in question, and I truly dont think your average general practitioner has the sports specific training to accurately measure max hr. For sports, If I an ever get near a major centre I'd like to find a place to perform a stress test but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

1capybara

OP said "Im a 45 year old male, around 220, 6'1" tall, normal blood pressure and cholesterol. Have been fairly constantly active now for a couple of years whether it be elliptical, Spinbike, and running."
healthy middle age male with normal BP and lipids and is constantly active needs to see a doctors because ???

scottb81

You should test your max HR. http://www.howtobefit.com/determine-maximum-heart-rate.htm

If your max HR is really high, like somewhere around 220, then there is nothing to worry about.

If your max HR is much lower than that then there is still nothing to worry about medically, but it indicates that you lack aerobic fitness. In a person that has been training this happens because that person either runs too hard all the time, doesn't run enough, or both.

The solution is to run more at around 70 to 80% of max. If you have been running too hard all the time and are not aerobiclly developed this will mean you have to slow down in training.

Below is something I have posted before with links that explain what you can do to be able to run faster at a lower heartrate. There is a lot of reading at these links but it's worth going through it if you want to improve your race performance in the long term. I can personally vouch that this stuff works.

Low HR Training
Basically what everyone should do is 12+ week of basebuilding every year at easy pace. The problem is that most people, me included, tend to run easy pace too hard for optimum development of the aerobic system. The result is that it never really gets fully developed and if too much hard running is included can get eroded over time.

The method I am using is from Dr. Phil Maffetone’s "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing". He has an internet site and this article by him summarizes his method and why it works. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Essentially, you subtract your age from 180, add a plus or minus 5 modifier and run at that target heartrate to target minus 10 for 12 or more weeks or until you stop getting results. Then you add back in some speedwork and race. During the basebuilding period walk breaks are ok, especially going up hills, but slowing down the pace will probably also be necessary. According to a lot of people who have been through this the slowdown is temporary and within a few months the pace will be back up, except at a lower intensity.

This next article by a top level athlete speaks of the results he got from training with the Maffetone method. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

This method is by an entirely different coach but ends up being very similar to Maffetone. The article at the link is from a very long post by that coach on the Let’s Run Forum a few years ago. The explanations in here are great. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

This was written by Arthur Lydiard in the days before heart rate monitors. It also stresses the importance of lots of easy miles for base building. Athletic Training by Arthur Lydiard, available free at http://www.maratonvu.hr/INDEX DOWNLOAD/al training eng.pdf

This link is to the runningahead Low HR Training subforum. It contains a lot of good information and ongoing discussion. It would also be a good place to ask questions of people who have been doing this a lot longer than I have. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum

This Low HR Training FAQ at that site also contains a lot of good information. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum/60275b29d3324bd384739e880f6a7495

smokinjackd

You should test your max HR. http://www.howtobefit.com/determine-maximum-heart-rate.htm

If your max HR is really high, like somewhere around 220, then there is nothing to worry about.

If your max HR is much lower than that then there is still nothing to worry about medically, but it indicates that you lack aerobic fitness. In a person that has been training this happens because that person either runs too hard all the time, doesn't run enough, or both.

The solution is to run more at around 70 to 80% of max. If you have been running too hard all the time and are not aerobiclly developed this will mean you have to slow down in training.


Thank you, this is what I've been looking for, time to catch up on some reading...lol
Below is something I have posted before with links that explain what you can do to be able to run faster at a lower heartrate. There is a lot of reading at these links but it's worth going through it if you want to improve your race performance in the long term. I can personally vouch that this stuff works.

Low HR Training
Basically what everyone should do is 12+ week of basebuilding every year at easy pace. The problem is that most people, me included, tend to run easy pace too hard for optimum development of the aerobic system. The result is that it never really gets fully developed and if too much hard running is included can get eroded over time.

The method I am using is from Dr. Phil Maffetone’s "Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing". He has an internet site and this article by him summarizes his method and why it works. http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Want_Speed_Slow_Down_2007.pdf

Essentially, you subtract your age from 180, add a plus or minus 5 modifier and run at that target heartrate to target minus 10 for 12 or more weeks or until you stop getting results. Then you add back in some speedwork and race. During the basebuilding period walk breaks are ok, especially going up hills, but slowing down the pace will probably also be necessary. According to a lot of people who have been through this the slowdown is temporary and within a few months the pace will be back up, except at a lower intensity.

This next article by a top level athlete speaks of the results he got from training with the Maffetone method. http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

This method is by an entirely different coach but ends up being very similar to Maffetone. The article at the link is from a very long post by that coach on the Let’s Run Forum a few years ago. The explanations in here are great. http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf

This was written by Arthur Lydiard in the days before heart rate monitors. It also stresses the importance of lots of easy miles for base building. Athletic Training by Arthur Lydiard, available free at http://www.maratonvu.hr/INDEX DOWNLOAD/al training eng.pdf

This link is to the runningahead Low HR Training subforum. It contains a lot of good information and ongoing discussion. It would also be a good place to ask questions of people who have been doing this a lot longer than I have. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum

This Low HR Training FAQ at that site also contains a lot of good information. http://www.runningahead.com/groups/LOWHRTR/forum/60275b29d3324bd384739e880f6a7495

scottb81

If you do test your max heartrate and then train by heartrate these are good zones to run by.

Running Heart Rates
From the book Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger.

% Heart Rate Reserve (HRR) for type of run.
50-70% Recovery
62-75% General Aerobic/Easy
65-78% Long
73-84% Marathon Pace
77-88% Lactate Threshold/Tempo
91-94% VO2max (5k pace)

Heart Rate Reserve (HRR) Formula
%HRR = RHR + X%*(MHR-RHR)

RHR=Resting Heart Rate
MHR = Max Heart Rate
X% = The % HRR you are calculating for

Hellbent_Heidi

OP said "Im a 45 year old male, around 220, 6'1" tall, normal blood pressure and cholesterol. Have been fairly constantly active now for a couple of years whether it be elliptical, Spinbike, and running."
healthy middle age male with normal BP and lipids and is constantly active needs to see a doctors because ???

Because he said he was concerned about his heart rate...and because at least once a year, you hear about seemingly healthy people who are conditioned athletes dropping dead while running in marathons, etc (often due to undiagnosed and unseen heart conditions), . My suggestion was simply not to rely on the advice here...or necessarily on the internet in general.

Hellbent_Heidi

OP said "Im a 45 year old male, around 220, 6'1" tall, normal blood pressure and cholesterol. Have been fairly constantly active now for a couple of years whether it be elliptical, Spinbike, and running."
healthy middle age male with normal BP and lipids and is constantly active needs to see a doctors because ???

Because he said he was concerned about his heart rate...and because at least once a year, you hear about seemingly healthy people who are conditioned athletes dropping dead while running in marathons, etc (often due to undiagnosed and unseen heart conditions), . My advice was simply not to rely on the advice here...or necessarily on the internet in general.

lilalaunebaer

Because he said he was concerned about his heart rate...and because at least once a year, you hear about seemingly healthy people who are conditioned athletes dropping dead while running in marathons, etc (often due to undiagnosed and unseen heart conditions), . My advice was simply not to rely on the advice here...or necessarily on the internet in general.

The news don't mention the many more people that simply drop dead without running.

1capybara

i can see the headline: "Person drops dead while watching TV and eating hot dogs"