Would not trade Ozempic For Anything

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Replies

  • Melwillbehealthy
    Melwillbehealthy Posts: 894 Member
    I do feel lucky. I don’t have any extra health insurance.
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,501 Member
    sollyn23l2 wrote: »
    Consider yourself blessed and lucky that you have easy access to it.

    Agreed, and as excess weight is easily top 3 of the biggest health issue in America over the last 20 years, let's advocate for lowering the barriers and increasing access where appropriate.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited June 2023
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    Cite a few please. I am skeptical that there are "several" study's that show a primary outcome of semaglutide use are negative.
    The poster didn't say that studies show a primary outcome of the drugs are negative. The poster said there are studies showing higher than expected loss of muscle, which there are.

    It's not about side effects of the drug, afaik. It's likely the combination of rapid weight loss plus a lot of people not doing resistance training and increasing their protein while on the drugs, so it would be expected that a lot of weight lost is muscle. If people then go off the drugs later, without successfully altering their lifestyle, and they start to put the weight back on, they'll end up fatter (in terms of composition) than before.
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    For those of us who have mastered and embraced the new lifestyle of discipline, CICO, keto, strength training, et. al. Good for you, nobody is stopping you.
    As the following articles explain, what I don't think you are understanding is that the best results for someone starting from obese who goes on the drugs is going to be doing both of the things you present as an either/or.

    As far as I can see, nobody is saying people shouldn't use the drugs. They're just saying that the drug in conjunction with lifestyle changes is going to produce better body composition and maybe help the person stay off the drug in future rather than perhaps needing to be on it for life, and with the potential financial implications of that.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ozempic-muscle-mass-loss

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/weight-loss-drugs-muscle-loss-rcna84936
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,501 Member
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    As far as I can see, nobody is saying people shouldn't use the drugs.

    I see, elsewhere when you wrote "Nope. I would never." it mixed me up a bit.

    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    They're just saying that the drug in conjunction with lifestyle changes is going to produce better body composition and maybe help the person stay off the drug in future rather than perhaps needing to be on it for life, and with the potential financial implications of that

    This sound very reasonable, I tend to agree with you here.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited June 2023
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    I see, elsewhere when you wrote "Nope. I would never." it mixed me up a bit.
    Yes, *I*. As in, *I* would rather make sustainable lifestyle changes which also have the benefits of improving my strength, bone density and heart health, than relying only on a drug for the rest of my life, even if the drug were free for that long (which I'm sure it wouldn't be).

    If someone else wants to use the drugs, go ahead. I will always encourage them to also increase their protein and start exercising, to improve their body composition and health, and maybe lead to them successfully getting off the drug instead of relying on it for the rest of their life.
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,501 Member
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    If someone else wants to use the drugs, go ahead. I will always encourage them to also increase their protein and start exercising, to improve their body composition and health, and maybe lead to them successfully getting off the drug instead of relying on it for the rest of their life.

    I agree.

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,420 MFP Moderator
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    Cite a few please. I am skeptical that there are "several" study's that show a primary outcome of semaglutide use are negative.
    The poster didn't say that studies show a primary outcome of the drugs are negative. The poster said there are studies showing higher than expected loss of muscle, which there are.

    It's not about side effects of the drug, afaik. It's likely the combination of rapid weight loss plus a lot of people not doing resistance training and increasing their protein while on the drugs, so it would be expected that a lot of weight lost is muscle. If people then go off the drugs later, without successfully altering their lifestyle, and they start to put the weight back on, they'll end up fatter (in terms of composition) than before.
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    For those of us who have mastered and embraced the new lifestyle of discipline, CICO, keto, strength training, et. al. Good for you, nobody is stopping you.
    As the following articles explain, what I don't think you are understanding is that the best results for someone starting from obese who goes on the drugs is going to be doing both of the things you present as an either/or.

    As far as I can see, nobody is saying people shouldn't use the drugs. They're just saying that the drug in conjunction with lifestyle changes is going to produce better body composition and maybe help the person stay off the drug in future rather than perhaps needing to be on it for life, and with the potential financial implications of that.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ozempic-muscle-mass-loss

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/weight-loss-drugs-muscle-loss-rcna84936

    This is exactly what i meant and said. Thank you for reinforcing it. Not once did i say not to use the drugs but be careful and to find a long term strategy.


  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,501 Member
    edited June 2023
    psuLemon wrote: »
    The poster said there are studies showing higher than expected loss of muscle, which there are.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ozempic-muscle-mass-loss

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/weight-loss-drugs-muscle-loss-rcna84936

    I'm not seeing "higher than expected." The articles cited do not report on research on semaglutide. They report that when losing weight there is lean muscle loss, and that is troubling. But no causation from using the drugs specifically. I'd still like to read some of these studies if they exist.

    It seems like we are all in agreement. The OP is going through a positive life changing process.
    lglnurse1 wrote:
    I am finally getting back to a place of happiness, and it feels so good!
    We all applaud your success.

    Like everyone who ages, and loses excess weight with the concomitant lean muscle loss, there is concern.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited June 2023
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    I'm not seeing "higher than expected." The articles cited do not report on research on semaglutide. They report that when losing weight there is lean muscle loss, and that is troubling. But no causation from using the drugs specifically. I'd still like to read some of these studies if they exist.
    It's right there in the articles, which cite a study which was linked, and it's all explained to you. I'm sure it would be trivial for you to find other sources too.

    Does taking the drug lead to faster weight loss than not taking it? Yes.

    Does losing weight quickly lead to more muscle mass lost? Yes, this is old news.

    Do people relying on a magic injection to solve their weight problem typically also take great effort to change their lifestyle by adding protein and weight lifting to mitigate these effects? I'm guessing no, and anecdotal posts from around this forum support that guess.

    So common sense says yes, more muscle mass lost while on the drugs. Again, you can easily find this information yourself.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,228 Member
    Does taking the drug lead to faster weight loss than not taking it? Yes, that's why it exists.

    well, actually, No that isnt why

    it exists primarily for type 2 diabetics who need extra medication to control their BSL's
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,758 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    well, actually, No that isnt why

    it exists primarily for type 2 diabetics who need extra medication to control their BSL's
    Fair point.
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,501 Member
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    It's right there in the articles, which cite a study which was linked, and it's all explained to you.
    But it's not.

    In the article https://nbcnews.com/health/health-news/weight-loss-drugs-muscle-loss-rcna84936 it actually has the drug shills saying the opposite: "Although lean body mass, which includes muscle mass, decreased in absolute terms, the proportion of lean body mass relative to total body mass increased,” --and-- “a reduction in lean mass was reported at a similar rate as what is seen in lifestyle-based treatments for obesity,”

    Again you and they are not really citing anything.

    The other article is a hot mess and the only thing remotely close is Nadolsky's opinion "which is on the high end of what we’d expect,”
    Does taking the drug lead to faster weight loss than not taking it? Yes.
    Source? It's CICO. I'm unaware of any speeding up.
    Does losing weight quickly lead to more muscle mass lost? Yes, this is old news.

    Do people relying on a magic injection to solve their weight problem typically also take great effort to change their lifestyle by adding protein and weight lifting to mitigate these effects? I'm guessing no, and anecdotal posts from around this forum support that guess.

    So common sense says yes, more muscle mass lost while on the drugs. Again, you can easily find this information yourself.

    This is all 100% genuinely your honest opinion. That's cool, I respect that it's your belief. I am with you on this...you own it, it's yours. No problems here.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,758 Member
    edited June 2023
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    The other article is a hot mess and the only thing remotely close is Nadolsky's opinion "which is on the high end of what we’d expect,”
    Doctor Nadolsky, yes. And you can find other sources, but of course you made no effort to do so, as I expected.
    chris_in_cal wrote: »
    Source? It's CICO. I'm unaware of any speeding up.
    Wait, now you think that people on the drugs don't lose weight faster than people who aren't? Are you serious?

    But also, it was in the article linked there, which for some reason you ignored.

    "The change in body weight from baseline to week 68 was −15.3 kg in the semaglutide group as compared with −2.6 kg in the placebo group"

    Can we agree that 15 is much more than 2?

    I have to ask now, do you have a financial motivation for your continued staunch defense of the drugs, and the way you attack with bad faith arguments anything that could be considered a negative for them? Are you involved with one of the companies which sells these drugs, in any way?
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,501 Member
    Retroguy2000 wrote: »
    The change in body weight from baseline to week 68 was −15.3 kg in the semaglutide group as compared with −2.6 kg in the placebo group

    You quoted the NEJM article "Once-Weekly Semaglutide in Adults with Overweight or Obesity." https://nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032183 By Dr. John Wilding

    The study you quoted actual was paid for by the drug manufacturer, BTW.

    Here is the conclusion of the study you cited:
    CONCLUSIONS - In participants with overweight or obesity, 2.4 mg of semaglutide once weekly plus lifestyle intervention was associated with sustained, clinically relevant reduction in body weight.

    So, in sum, it say people who took Semaglutide lost weight and those who did not take Semaglutida did not lose weight.

    Losing excess weight, as you pointed out earlier, means losing lean tissue too. Those who did not take the drug, and did not lose weight, did not lose any additional lean tissue.

    The linked articles were click bait. This study you quoted is much more interesting. But as it is just one study, I'm not betting my life on it (especially since the study you quoted was paid for by the drug manufacturer.)

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