Dexascan and Renpho - what do I trust?
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@tomcustombuilder What a nice compliment! I appreciate everyone here that has given their time to me, so that I can be better informed!
@PAV8888 Nice link! I took a look the info. So looking at that information and comparing it to what my "recommendations" were. The Dexafit recs appear to be pushing me to the minimum Body Fat % for a 60+ woman, but not below that minimum of 25%, and the recommendation of my gaining 4 lb of lean mass would put me at 71.5%, based on their total mass for me that day, which is still 1% below the top % of 72.5% that is recommended for a 60+ year old woman. Going to print this doc out and add it to my papers. So I guess the good takeaway from this for me is that the Dexafit suggestions were not out of line like we feared.
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@PAV8888 Very interesting to hear the distinctions between the types of uses. I did speak with my sister after mine. She is two years older than me, and had a medical bone scan at 55 I believe. As you mentioned, she had things like pelvic numbers and those other targeted zones. Mine does not. Right or wrong, our T-scores were very different. Hers had been at -1.0 vs mine at +1.0. Is that due to quality of scan, or is this the result of our having distinctively different body types? Unless I get a medical scan, I guess it might be hard to say, and I am not going to do that. As my Dr stated, I have no significant risk factors except for being a 61 year old female (no hormone treatment either).0
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Trimming the quoted section just to reply selectively to parts where you mentioned me.
Yes. They didn't give me any data about body fat percent, but produced a pretty-thick comprehensive report on the state of my skeleton at various points, compared to women my age, and compared to prime-of-life women, with various statistical and risk analyses, plus written recommendations for follow-up action. A specialist (medical doctor) reviewed the report and recommendations with me.@AnnPT77 I have thought Dexa’s were as you described and highly respected. Yours were likely performed by medical professionals.
I strongly suspect that some of the hormone therapy drugs I took after breast cancer were a major factor in why I developed osteoporosis. I took one for 5 years that has that reputation (degrading bone quality). Before that period, my bone-specialist Dexa results looked OK. After the drug, osteopenic. (These are anti-estrogen hormone therapy drugs, not normal HRT.) These drugs made it much more likely I'd stay alive, so I don't regret any of that or bemoan the side effect. Alive is a really good start on the rest of my day, y'know?
I'm surprised that your age alone doesn't have your doctor recommending a bone quality assessment. I thought that was a fairly standard thing for women our age, perhaps starting with one of the simpler tests that scans a heel or something (I don't remember what) as a screener.
I don't know enough about Dexa to say which things its more likely to get wrong or right.
So, IF the bone info is accurate, then yay! My bones are really good. I just need to be smart and keep them that way. If wrong then, what was the point of the test. Also, it claimed my visceral fat was good. Another yay! Are these the types of numbers that Dexa tends to get right, or wrong. @Sollyn2312 above pointed out that certain aspects can be manipulated.
Keep in mind that the comparison here in this thread was relative reliability vs. a BIA scale. A BIA scale is running some weak current through your body (just from foot to foot, pretty much, if no hand-holds for 4-point reading). They measure the return through the circuit, and presumably use some kind of population average-ish data in an algorithm to make an estimate.
If your scale knows your age, height, blah blah blah, it may give a slightly more nuanced estimate, but it's still a pretty iffy process to be estimating all the values it claims to estimate, y'know? It's still got to be comparing current sent through your body to some kind of demographic-averages data, seems like.
Better or worse than a fly-by-night strip-mall or RV Dexa? Dunno. I don't think it can be lots better, at best.@AnnPT77 I appreciate the comparative demographics. I know that you are highly athletic, compared to my dabbling. If you are at 25%-ish, I am certainly higher as I will expect you have more muscles than I.
I don't make any particular assumptions, though I think I'm slightly more muscular than average for our demographic, which is sadly not a high bar. (I don't even lift much!)
FWIW:
That's a very generalized approximate guestimate on my part. I don't care a lot what the answer is, so my interest is academic. When someone posts a method of assessing body fat here on MFP, I tend to try it if it's easy, because why not?
By "25%-ish" I meant something in the middle 20s, with a "probably" in there. I've not had any kind of professional scan for body fat estimates.
My guess is based on a convergence of the rather poor estimating methodologies that are easy: The same kind of BIA scale I criticize as inaccurate in my post, the so-called Navy body fat estimating algorithm, and those fun web photo examples of different women at different BF%s.
My BIA scale at my current weight is usually saying saying something in the upper 24-point-somethings to lower 25-point-somethings percent. The last time I did the Navy calculator thing I weighed a couple of pounds less, 128. Its guess was 24.3%. Subjective comparison to photos, my upper body is pretty thin-looking, maybe as low as upper teens-ish percent, but my lower body is approaching 30%-looking, so maybe averaging out full body to mid-20s someplace. (Keep in mind, too, that I have literally zero breasts, and that's a fat store to some extent for many women.)
Izzat right? Don't know, don't care.
I do suspect that the BIA scale provides a reasonable trend line, i.e., if I ignore any weird outlier values that may pop up now and then, and see that the scale thinks my lean mass is increasing, and my fat mass is decreasing, then maybe that's a reasonable sign that the actual trend is in a good direction. The actual number (25%, 22%, 30% whatever) may not be very accurate, but the trend of the number over a longer time period may have some meaning.
I do think sometimes people look at a body fat percent in isolation as their weight changes, and don't interpret it very thoughtfully.
If I lose fat, but lose no lean mass, my body fat percent goes down. If I lose weight, some of which is useful lean mass, and more of which is fat, my body fat percent probably still goes down. Is that an equivalent outcome, either one equally to be celebrated? I'm not too sure.
I think it's useful to consider estimated lean mass in pounds, when in a context of body weight change. If that absolute number is going up or down, that may be useful info, and - still speaking in context of weight change - potentially more insight provoking than the raw percent number, since the latter is a percent of a changing base amount.0 -
@annPT77 I love your trimmed quotes, especially since my post was so lengthy.
From your description, it does sounds like the medical facility version is significantly more comprehensive than my body comp Dexa. But I do wonder if, as a preliminary check, the bone data from the body comp is a good spot check. Ie indicator if more should be followed up medically
Indeed, “alive” is good. Interestingly, my father who has survived three forms of cancer and survived some aggressive treatments usually given to a younger individual, had his hip snap off mid-stride October 2021. My oncologist sister said the cause of his osteoporosis was some component of the treatments that saved his life. She was “shocked” though that no one had monitored his bone health. My thought was also, why did she not suggest it if it was such an obvious action.
As for my not being given a bone scan, I have been told that I have no risk factors. No idea, but I gave the Dexa results to my PCP. Her response was if I wanted a scan early, I could have one, but I will get one at 65 automatically.
As for having my data, the Dexa knew my age and sex. I have not allowed the Dexa Ap, the Renpho ap, or even the MFP ap to have access to my “health” data. Not sure why I am resisting, but just not ready to blindly give access.
On BF methods, I have Dexa, Phenpho and did the Navy. Range varied from 28+% to 23%. As for those BF photos online, I find them impossible as my body shape is not that. I am fairly linear these days. Those women are not post menopausal. :P
I do think I will play with the Renpho over time. I own it, so now it is no further cost to me. I did buy it simply as a travel scale, not as a body fat device (did a sample travel dry run and it is dead nuts after each 2 second calibration). I am doing two weeks in Scotland and while I do plan to enjoy myself, I would love to have the support of a scale for my sanity and so I don’t have extensive repairs after. I think your conclusion that studying lean body mass may have greater value in the long run than body fat %. I would like to stay mobile and strong. I am currently watching my parents physically deteriorate (88 and 86) and it is painful to watch. I continually wonder how different their path may have been if they had focused more on their physicality.
@PAV8888 I love the progression of photos. I did not study them last night!
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Yes, just subcutaneous fat. But it's a good indication if you're holding a good amount of fat because you'll usually have more subcutaneous fat than visceral.@ninerbuff Wouldn't that apply solely to subcutaneous fat, and not visceral fat? Also, what about bone density? But yes, I remember that age old pinch test.
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Interestingly, my father who has survived three forms of cancer and survived some aggressive treatments usually given to a younger individual, had his hip snap off mid-stride October 2021.
I am currently watching my parents physically deteriorate (88 and 86) and it is painful to watch. I continually wonder how different their path may have been if they had focused more on their physicality.
I'm curious about your (and other people's) perspective and aspirations in measuring and seeking snapshot details?
As I am sure you are aware, probably 80%+ people on this thread would celebrate if their parents were alive at ages 88 and 86. You write "painful." I get it, but what's the big picture you are carrying? How does your big picture apply to your current efforts on your own health and wellbeing?
A doctor I heard on a podcast this week talked about western medicine and society being wildly successful on reducing 'fast death' (think consumption, 40 y/o smokers having heart attacks, etc.) and we are left with everyone else who face 'slow death.' Not to get too morbid, but I'm hoping there is contentedness and vitality and happiness in doing ones best, enjoying the process, and accepting fate.
I'll step off my soapbox. I do very much appreciate and identify with what you are questioning, I'm just curious abit on how you hope it will support you?0 -
Quotes snipped for focus.
From talking with friends, it may be that medical facility vs. strip-mall/RV maybe-clinic is important, but there's a pretty big gap from what my friends got from a respected general medical facility, vs. what I got from a really good local specialist practice. They have a couple of specialties, but bone health is one of them.From your description, it does sounds like the medical facility version is significantly more comprehensive than my body comp Dexa. But I do wonder if, as a preliminary check, the bone data from the body comp is a good spot check. Ie indicator if more should be followed up medically
Ah - I'm probably just not in tune with the age threshold that's standard. My scans for sure started way early because of my health history.
As for my not being given a bone scan, I have been told that I have no risk factors. No idea, but I gave the Dexa results to my PCP. Her response was if I wanted a scan early, I could have one, but I will get one at 65 automatically.
If I were you (which I'm not), I'd consider that if your less-official-source Dexa results looked good, and you don't have risk factors, that as a whole picture would be reassuring.As for having my data, the Dexa knew my age and sex. I have not allowed the Dexa Ap, the Renpho ap, or even the MFP ap to have access to my “health” data. Not sure why I am resisting, but just not ready to blindly give access.
I was really asking if the Renpho knew things like your age, sex, height. My BIA scale is not internet enabled. (I dislike the "Internet of Things" (IOT) now for a variety of reasons, privacy not being the biggest in my mind.) I had to set up the scale (using buttons on it) to set various values, those among them. IMU, which isn't deep, if the BIA device has none of that info, its estimates get very tenuous.On BF methods, I have Dexa, Phenpho and did the Navy. Range varied from 28+% to 23%. As for those BF photos online, I find them impossible as my body shape is not that. I am fairly linear these days. Those women are not post menopausal. :P
Again, I'm not you, but if I were looking at that, I'd be pretty comfortable assuming "mid twenties" and I personally wouldn't worry about it after that.I do think I will play with the Renpho over time. I own it, so now it is no further cost to me. I did buy it simply as a travel scale, not as a body fat device (did a sample travel dry run and it is dead nuts after each 2 second calibration). I am doing two weeks in Scotland and while I do plan to enjoy myself, I would love to have the support of a scale for my sanity and so I don’t have extensive repairs after. I think your conclusion that studying lean body mass may have greater value in the long run than body fat %. I would like to stay mobile and strong. I am currently watching my parents physically deteriorate (88 and 86) and it is painful to watch. I continually wonder how different their path may have been if they had focused more on their physicality.
Yeah, I'm talking about looking at mass (in pounds/kg) rather than percents, because implications of percents can be unintuitive sometimes. That said, I estimate my lean mass in pounds using my BF% estimate(s), and my then-current weight. Close enough.
I would think you might be seeing something of a "two paths" phenomenon among your relatives and friends, at your age. I know I am.
What I mean is that in about my 50s, as a broad generalization, I started noticing that inactive/obese people my age whom I knew were starting to lose capabilities, and active, healthy people my age were thriving on. At first, it was sort of small stuff - y'know, maybe how people start to complain or make not-funny "jokes" about how it's hard to get up off the floor, or get into those low cupboards, etc.? Maybe it's harder to find peers who want to do things that involve lots of walking, stairs, or other mini-"challenges"?
As my age (and my circle's ages) moved on, the (average) divergence increased between those groups. I ate dinner with a group of a dozen women (40s to a few early 70s), and over half couldn't get into the higher chairs that were at a high-top table, without help from others. Another group, a fair fraction couldn't get a leg over a picnic table bench to sit in the center.
As there were sadly deaths, the fit and healthy people who died more often had some quite acute, sharp decline (or instant death kind of phenomenon that can happen at any age). The less fit and fatter folks were more likely to die after a very long, unpleasant down-spiral of increasingly bad health that rendered them unable to be independent for a long time near the end.
Then I started noticing that most doctors' offices I visited had more of overweight, mobility-challenged older people, and more general venues (let alone active events) had a higher relative percentage of slimmer, more mobile people in the same age group.
You don't have to whack me with a 2x4, I hope!
One of my local heroes as a rowing buddy who's about to turn 77, is quite capably rowing with people half her age, carrying heavy boats, etc. Physically, she looks/acts like maybe healthy 50s. She needs no routine prescription meds. She started strength training in her 30s, when women just didn't do that (normatively speaking). She was a hair stylist before retirement, told me that back then she didn't tell her clients she lifted because they would've dropped her. She's still in the gym lifting on non-rowing days, does Pilates regularly, and more.
She had a hip fracture - cause not known. Two weeks after her hip replacement surgery, I picked her up for a coffee outing, and she walked to the car without a cane/walker. If you didn't know her, you wouldn't have known she had anything wrong, seeing her. Thirty days to the day after surgery, she was back rowing a boat, and rowing is a leg sport.
By contrast, another friend, very inactive and obese, about a decade younger, had a hip replacement surgery around the same time. She got an infection, spent multiple weeks in a rehab facility because she wasn't mobile enough to take care of herself at home. It was many weeks to months before she was back in her normal (limited) routine, and she still needs a cane to this day (couple years later).
Object lesson for me. Obviously, individuals will vary, and there are spectrums of behavior not just the extremes, but the trends seem pretty clear to me.
Man, I gotta stop writing rant/essays.😬1 -
...One of my local heroes as a rowing buddy who's about to turn 77, is quite capably rowing with people half her age, carrying heavy boats, etc. Physically, she looks/acts like maybe healthy 50s. She needs no routine prescription meds. She started strength training in her 30s, when women just didn't do that (normatively speaking). She was a hair stylist before retirement, told me that back then she didn't tell her clients she lifted because they would've dropped her. She's still in the gym lifting on non-rowing days, does Pilates regularly, and more.
She had a hip fracture - cause not known. Two weeks after her hip replacement surgery, I picked her up for a coffee outing, and she walked to the car without a cane/walker. If you didn't know her, you wouldn't have known she had anything wrong, seeing her. Thirty days to the day after surgery, she was back rowing a boat, and rowing is a leg sport.
By contrast, another friend, very inactive and obese, about a decade younger, had a hip replacement surgery around the same time. She got an infection, spent multiple weeks in a rehab facility because she wasn't mobile enough to take care of herself at home. It was many weeks to months before she was back in her normal (limited) routine, and she still needs a cane to this day (couple years later).
Object lesson for me. Obviously, individuals will vary, and there are spectrums of behavior not just the extremes, but the trends seem pretty clear to me.
Man, I gotta stop writing rant/essays.😬
I love your essays!
At my partner's mother's wake in 2016, I met a 91 year old woman who had and still participated in the Senior Olympics. She gave me the impression that this was not any where near as rigorous as regular Olympics, but still, she is active every day. She radiated good health and vitality and walked without a cane/walker. Her son, on the other hand, did use one or the other.
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chris_in_cal wrote: »
Interestingly, my father who has survived three forms of cancer and survived some aggressive treatments usually given to a younger individual, had his hip snap off mid-stride October 2021.
I am currently watching my parents physically deteriorate (88 and 86) and it is painful to watch. I continually wonder how different their path may have been if they had focused more on their physicality.
I'm curious about your (and other people's) perspective and aspirations in measuring and seeking snapshot details?
As I am sure you are aware, probably 80%+ people on this thread would celebrate if their parents were alive at ages 88 and 86. You write "painful." I get it, but what's the big picture you are carrying? How does your big picture apply to your current efforts on your own health and wellbeing?
A doctor I heard on a podcast this week talked about western medicine and society being wildly successful on reducing 'fast death' (think consumption, 40 y/o smokers having heart attacks, etc.) and we are left with everyone else who face 'slow death.' Not to get too morbid, but I'm hoping there is contentedness and vitality and happiness in doing ones best, enjoying the process, and accepting fate.
I'll step off my soapbox. I do very much appreciate and identify with what you are questioning, I'm just curious abit on how you hope it will support you?
I'm not the one you asked, but will answer. My father was 83 when he had what we called a "good death." He was feeling poorly and was dead of leukemia a week after diagnosis - long enough to say goodbye to everyone and give instructions for funeral, etc.
Just a few weeks prior, he'd been taking car of himself, including food shopping, driving locally and having lunch with his friends. (He'd stopped driving on highways some years earlier.)
On the other hand, my partner's parents lingered and lingered and lingered. For the last few years of her life, his mother said she wanted to die and complained about Jesus not taking her. She was in a nursing home the last year of her life and hated it. (She required too much care to be at home.) My partner visited her every day. I'm sure it was painful seeing her bedridden and unhappy, but he was stoic about it.2 -
springlering62 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »DXA is the gold standard. I've never seen "places" with a DXA, only medical facilities and the procedure is done by a radiology technician. It also provides way more beneficial information than just BF%, particularly when it comes to bone health.
You can buy DEXA scans at “places” on Groupon here (Deep South). I’ve been to one in an RV kinda rig that goes from gym to gym fitted with a scanner, and two in a bare bones two-room suite in an office building of mostly lawyers and CPAs. A sofa in the waiting room, and a small desk and chair and scanner in the other. And a couple of bog standard inspirational posters of athletes for decor. One in each rather depressing room.
That’s all they do, day in and day out- feed our insecurities, or securities, as the case may be. 😜
Are they truly DXA? I guess if that's the case I might question whether the machines are properly maintained and calibrated as well as the qualifications of the operator. I've only seen them in the radiology department at the hospital.
Maybe they're around other places...IDK, I've never really entertained the idea of getting one so have never looked. The hospital where I get my blood work done has the radiology department right next to the blood work area and that's the only place I've ever noticed it.0 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »
Interestingly, my father who has survived three forms of cancer and survived some aggressive treatments usually given to a younger individual, had his hip snap off mid-stride October 2021.
I am currently watching my parents physically deteriorate (88 and 86) and it is painful to watch. I continually wonder how different their path may have been if they had focused more on their physicality.
I'm curious about your (and other people's) perspective and aspirations in measuring and seeking snapshot details?
As I am sure you are aware, probably 80%+ people on this thread would celebrate if their parents were alive at ages 88 and 86. You write "painful." I get it, but what's the big picture you are carrying? How does your big picture apply to your current efforts on your own health and wellbeing?
A doctor I heard on a podcast this week talked about western medicine and society being wildly successful on reducing 'fast death' (think consumption, 40 y/o smokers having heart attacks, etc.) and we are left with everyone else who face 'slow death.' Not to get too morbid, but I'm hoping there is contentedness and vitality and happiness in doing ones best, enjoying the process, and accepting fate.
I'll step off my soapbox. I do very much appreciate and identify with what you are questioning, I'm just curious abit on how you hope it will support you?
@chris_in_cal I just got home from a full day with my parents in assisted living. Yes, I am fortunate to have my parents still with me. They are fortunate enough to have good enough health to be alive. The parts that are hardest on me are the aspects that I feel they had a choice about.
The first of these is the fact that as my parents aged they became full on hoarders. Right now, they have been in assisted living for over one and a half years. They own two homes, neither of which they can financially extricate themselves from, because they won't allow the contents to be dealt with. The hoarding also led to them not letting repair people into their home or cleaners as my mother became unable to, and it even removed their ability to have downsized into a more livable home that, just maybe, could have delayed their need to move into assisted living. Meanwhile, financially they are paying for two homes, PLUS assisted living. I on the other hand have to come de-hoard their assisted living apartment regularly, and like today, did emergency run to one home that suddenly mail is being delivered to again.
Second, their physical health, which IMO may have altered their options in life. I think COVID lockdown accelerated my mother's deterioration, both mentally and physically. She had taken pride in her efforts until then. Once COVID came around, she literally would not even go outside (she lived in an expansive neighborhood - not congested) out of fear that there might be a person in sight. My father on the other hand, thinks physical activity is a remote control. My father's mobility is bad and every time they set up PT he refuses to do anything because he "knows more than them" or his "mitochondria need to recharge". My mother has accelerated in her decline just in the past few months.
My mother fight's medical care. My father thinks pills are the solution.
OK, so you asked, what is my takeaway, and what might I do differently.
1) we sold our family home at age 60 to move into a very nice townhouse, but one that we can see how we could age in place in the future
2) we are decluttering and getting rid of unnecessary things
3) we are trying to be better about exercise and maintaining mobility, and part of that is a healthy weight. Extra pounds are hard on the body and harder to move around, and even hard on any aid or family that needs to assist you later in life.
4) I am looking at, but not yet doing, supplements (aka vitamins) to see what benefits might exist
5) keeping up on medical care, preferably preventative. Monitoring those lab results and acting accordingly, and, as much as possible, addressing any medical issues through better healthy choices (like my lipid panel came back imperfect. I have since done a lot of reading on the subject and I am shifting my diet in a way that should help) I prefer that as a first step rather than "popping a pill" that is now one more obstacle to navigate in your health journey.
There is a couple at my parent's assisted living that I met a few months ago. Wife was bright, clean articulate and mobile, as was the husband. If I recall, she was 102, her "younger husband" was 99. I had guessed her age as low 80's. I would love to ask them about the choices they made. Given they are husband and wife, odds are it is not purely lucky genetics, or they got that luck times two.
Hope I did not just bore you to tears, and maybe I answered your questions.
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@annPT77 I truly enjoyed reading your essay, and I am so glad that I responded to @chris_in_cal before reading your comments. I might have been afraid I was just copying your thoughts. Now, going down your “essay”.
I agree with your thoughts on the Dexa and just accept the results may not be exact, but no alarm bells were set off. On the Renpho, I can’t recall if there were “basic” questions at the beginning or not. Likely there were as height and sex are typically needed for those devices. It did ask to access my phone’s health info, and I have as yet declined. Not saying I won’t, but easier to opt in then try and get my data back from them.
Thank you for sharing your observations regarding the divergent aging groups. Hubby and I are fairly “lone wolf” people. We do have friends but no big social circles. BUT, what you have shared has confirmed what I fear/believe can be in ones future if the wrong choices are made. One of the “funny” things I do, is I constantly practice getting up from the floor with no hands. I happen to like sitting on the floor, so I get lots of opportunities. Last year, having fun with my then two year old grandson, I entertained him by my crawling through the toddler play tunnel (cannot gain weight and do that! :P ). I’d like to live well for whatever years I have remaining AND I’d like my children and grandchildren to enjoy their lives with me and not tending to me, if I can.
Was it you, Ann, that recommended the book “The Wonder Years” to me? For some reason, I think it was you. It is in front of me right now. I bought before my 2021 tailspin (something I need to stop doing).
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@kshama2001 I want to grow up to be that woman. Read my reply above to “chris”. Woman is 102, and husband 99, and one would guess they were in early 80’s at the worst.
Also, like you I have the comparative good and bad. Hubby’s paternal grandmother, got a stroke because she refused to take her diabetes medications or modify her diet. Had to move to nursing home, half paralyzed for the last 10 years of her life.
Hubby’s maternal grandfather, had moved into a nursing home, but was a rare male and the life of the home. One night they had a dance. He danced with every woman. That night he died in his sleep. I keep saying that that is the way to die.
@cwolfman13 Yes, indeed they are Dexa. Are they maintained? Are they calibrated? I guess those questions are more in my mind…..after the fact. If was a bucket list item. Initially I planned to do periodically, but I’ll be thinking hard if that is how I want to spend another $80 (reasonable price IMM)
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I understand your frustration. At the end of the day, we all age. While it's possible some of their lifestyle choices may have been able to mitigate what they're going through, the reality is most of these things were going to happen to them. I watched my grandmother who was always one of the healthiest people I've known, slowly die from dementia. It's difficult to come to terms with the reality that one day, our bodies will fail us, and we can't completely stop it.1
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So much of what you write @SModa61 resonates with me. I'm so happy you are putting this out here.
This is sort of a plug, but I saw a documentary about five years ago and it really started me down a good path of addressing my relationship with my possessions. I come from hoarder people.
Coincidentally the documentarians (The Minimalists) emailed today saying their full doc is going to be available free on Youtube starting this Saturday: https://youtu.be/J8DGjUv-Vjc
It isn't the greatest movie in the world, but it lit a match and I've really been comfortable making big changes since starting down this road. Give it a watch this weekend if you have the time.
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »I understand your frustration. At the end of the day, we all age. While it's possible some of their lifestyle choices may have been able to mitigate what they're going through, the reality is most of these things were going to happen to them. I watched my grandmother who was always one of the healthiest people I've known, slowly die from dementia. It's difficult to come to terms with the reality that one day, our bodies will fail us, and we can't completely stop it.
@sollyn23l2 Dementia is horrible. My mother seems to be being damaged by this. My older sister is scared that this might be genetic and therefore is this a certainty for us as well.0 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »So much of what you write @SModa61 resonates with me. I'm so happy you are putting this out here.
This is sort of a plug, but I saw a documentary about five years ago and it really started me down a good path of addressing my relationship with my possessions. I come from hoarder people.
Coincidentally the documentarians (The Minimalists) emailed today saying their full doc is going to be available free on Youtube starting this Saturday: https://youtu.be/J8DGjUv-Vjc
It isn't the greatest movie in the world, but it lit a match and I've really been comfortable making big changes since starting down this road. Give it a watch this weekend if you have the time.
@chris_in_cal thank you for sharing that link. I will certainly watch it. My personality risks hoarding. Fortunately I am married to a husband that reminds me this is not an option. And of course, my parents have inspired me to make sure I improve as I age, instead of getting worse like many elderly.
Oh, in my large message above, I forgot to mention that my father has been obese (low end obese) for likely 10+ years now, and I never remember him as a "normal" weight man. This choice has certainly added to his mobility issues.
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@SModa61 i had to request guardianship and conservatorship for my parents, and to keep my sanity, ultimately requested court appointed ones. Our court appointed the same lovely attorney to serve as both.
Lovely and attorney. Two words that don’t normally go together, right?
Best decision I ever made. Ours was wonderful. She stepped in and made sure my parents had safe and proper full time care, that caretakers were paid on time and able to buy supplies, removed middle aged moochers from the parental teat, and straightened out their finances. After they passed, she was able to get things dealt with fairly and quickly, and when family members went ballistic, she firmly dealt with them.
It was such a relief. They were borderline hoarders themselves, the resident of their basement was a hoarder, the house hadn’t been repaired or cleaned in years. She got it emptied, cleaned, evictions handled, listed and sold in less than a year.
She earned every penny of her fees and I would have gladly paid more just for the peace and relief from worry.
I know it’s hard, but you may need to consider their long term financial needs versus their pride and stubbornness. Having it fall on you isn’t fair, and I know from experience, it affects your mental and physical health.3 -
@springlering62 amazing! there may come a time that it comes to that. right now, I am getting trained by my father to assume certain financial responsibilities, bills, where monies are, and access codes to various accounts. I am sorry you went through this, but I appreciate your sharing your experience and solutions.
Note: As currently defined, I am eventually co-trustee, co-executor, and sole power of attorney depending on when any of those roles kick in.0 -
BTW all this talk reminded me that today almost became a day 4 without exercise. Changed and grabbed my sneakers and did 4 mile walk at 13'30" pace.
For you data people, I am also monitory my estimated VO2 max (Apple watch data). In january, I was 29.4 avg and just returning to walking, and last week I reached 33.3. Today was disappointing as I was down to 32.6 which I had not seen since May 27. Consistency, gotta do it!!
How real is it? Dunno, but it is some other data point that reflects effort. May 2021, I got to 34.9. I want to hit 35!2
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