Does the glycemic index really matter?

kshama2001

DFW_Tom wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

From observation and experience, unless you're diabetic or have a high incidence of heart disease in the family, I don't think it's that important to track. There are going to be times you need fast carbs and there are a lot of healthy foods that rate poor on the glycemic index.
It still comes down calories in/out for weight gain/loss/maintenance.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my experience as a morbidly obese male who was hungry all the time, using the Glycemic Index and Glycemic Loads of different foods was of great help in finding what I could eat without feeling starved, or worse - setting off cravings I had no control over. I never felt the need to track GI or GL, but as a guide it was/is an invaluable source of information that benefits me greatly.

Insulin Resistance is a real thing with 25-33% of the population estimated to be inflicted with it (unknowingly) to some degree. Neither diabetes nor CAD are qualifying ailments, though they might well be comorbidities of someone with I.R., along with a slew of other health issues. My A1c levels have always been reported in the healthy range. The only times I needed "fast carbs" at the beginning of my journey was to flatten out the wild insulin swings that had me feeling shaky and lethargic from eating the standard Western diet. Once I was sticking to low carbs, trying to eat higher glycemic healthy foods (apples, bananas, oatmeal, corn, etc.) demanded immediate consumption of the closest high carb junk I could get. It has only been lately, after 20 months of eating lower glycemic foods, that I have been able to enjoy these other types of healthy foods in limited quantities. Now a days, if I've been doing some hard physical labor, I experience fatigue that getting some healthy "fast" carbs seems to relieve fairly quickly without setting off cravings. It should go without saying that it is best not to get to the point where our bodies need those fast carbs.

Yes, C.I.-C.O. is a real thing too. But there is a lot more to weight and health management that controls the balance of that simple equation for many of us. I'd go as far as to say that calories in - calories out is meaningless until the underlying factors that control each side of the equation are understood and balanced for the long term. Telling a deeply depressed person to eat less and exercise more isn't going to help them anymore than it does to tell someone with anorexia to have a cheeseburger. In reality, it comes down to each of us being able to manage the issues that control C.I.-C.O. for the rest of our days. Having an idea of the glycemic content of different foods is a handy tool in that context.

My A1C has always been in the normal range, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had undiagnosed insulin resistance. Will reach out to my PCP at some point.

I've long known that I have a problem with certain types of bread, while sprouted breads like Ezekiel are filling and not triggering.

I don't look at GL/GI numbers, but just eat higher fiber bread, never eat crackers without fat and protein, and know that unless I have a small portion of birthday cake/ice cream, I'm going to feel sick. (This feeling sick happens despite never consuming birthday cake except shortly after a meal.)

I feel sick after drinking apple/orange juice, but fine after eating a whole apple/orange. However, I mostly have fruit with fat and protein, but more because I find it more filling that way.

DFW_Tom

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Appetite management seems to have been one of your personal challenges, ....

It is important to distinguish between what I had (when morbidly obese) always thought was round the clock hunger and what I later found to be carb cravings from insulin resistance. I experimented with two 40 hour water only fast early on in my weight loss journey (body fat @ 45%) and found, to my shock, the hunger was very mild and easy to ignore. Especially when compared to the shakes and overwhelming need for quick carbs that eating something healthy like oatmeal or a banana would bring on. Back then it was more of a concern not to let my calorie intake get too low from lack of appetite when I kept to very low carbs low in glycemic content.

As I got leaner I was able to increase carb levels and types of carbs with the help of paying attention to the glycemic content of different foods. It is a fairly new experience for me now (body fat under 20%) to experience true hunger more often. Sometimes to the point of needing quick carbs to bring my energy levels up. I can, and do, still get carb cravings with some foods (usually some highly processed carby junk), but the need is less intense and transitory. Making myself move a little strenuously, or even lifting weights for a few minutes tend to abate the uncomfortable sensation.

DFW_Tom wrote: »

Diet restriction and increased exercise (what I equate someone saying it all comes down to CICO to be) might very well help as long as one can be keep it up, but is a waste of time and effort unless the underlying problem is identified and corrected.

<snip>

I would hate to assume what another person believes.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Again, I generally agree with the overall thrust of what you're saying. With respect to the two things I bolded above, I would've thought the first was an example of assuming what another person believes, or at least assuming what they mean by a particular choice of phrasing.

I don't particularly assume that only eating restriction and movement increase are what a person means when they say something like "it all comes down to CICO". I assume that they mean that without the right calorie balance at the foundation, weight management isn't going to happen.

lol, I'm guilty as charged. Perception is just another way of assuming intent.

glassyo

Can I sneak a very specific question regarding the glycemic index and a very specific food in here because it's really so dumb, it doesn't deserve its own thread?

I mean, I will anyway....:)

Because of this whole stupid, prediabetic thing, I'm still figuring out foods that would be better for me to eat and have been toying with the glycemic index to help me choose foods to eat.

I love my oatmeal and just polished off my supply of rolled oats and only have quick oats to go back on (which I know is much faster digesting than rolled or steel cut oats). Which brings us to my question about steel cut oats!

Quick cooking steel cut oats vs the regular every day takes forever to cook steel cut oats. Any difference in the glycemic index rating? I've googled but haven't really found an answer.

Please and thank you. *curtsey*

sollyn23l2

glassyo wrote: »

Can I sneak a very specific question regarding the glycemic index and a very specific food in here because it's really so dumb, it doesn't deserve its own thread?

I mean, I will anyway....:)

Because of this whole stupid, prediabetic thing, I'm still figuring out foods that would be better for me to eat and have been toying with the glycemic index to help me choose foods to eat.

I love my oatmeal and just polished off my supply of rolled oats and only have quick oats to go back on (which I know is much faster digesting than rolled or steel cut oats). Which brings us to my question about steel cut oats!

Quick cooking steel cut oats vs the regular every day takes forever to cook steel cut oats. Any difference in the glycemic index rating? I've googled but haven't really found an answer.

Please and thank you. *curtsey*

https://www.diabetescarecommunity.ca/diet-and-fitness-articles/lets-talk-oats-the-best-types-of-oatmeal-for-your-diabetes-diet/

glassyo

sollyn23l2 wrote: »

glassyo wrote: »

Can I sneak a very specific question regarding the glycemic index and a very specific food in here because it's really so dumb, it doesn't deserve its own thread?

I mean, I will anyway....:)

Because of this whole stupid, prediabetic thing, I'm still figuring out foods that would be better for me to eat and have been toying with the glycemic index to help me choose foods to eat.

I love my oatmeal and just polished off my supply of rolled oats and only have quick oats to go back on (which I know is much faster digesting than rolled or steel cut oats). Which brings us to my question about steel cut oats!

Quick cooking steel cut oats vs the regular every day takes forever to cook steel cut oats. Any difference in the glycemic index rating? I've googled but haven't really found an answer.

Please and thank you. *curtsey*

https://www.diabetescarecommunity.ca/diet-and-fitness-articles/lets-talk-oats-the-best-types-of-oatmeal-for-your-diabetes-diet/

Thanks. I think I came across that site (or something similar) in my travels but I didn't see where it answered my question, if it even is a relevant question at all

Specifically, in quick steel cut oats vs not so quick steel cut oats which is more important? The quick part (which technically raises the glycemic index rating) or the steel cut oats part (which lowers it)?

chris_in_cal

glassyo wrote: »

Secifically, in quick steel cut oats vs not so quick steel cut oats which is more important? The quick part (which technically raises the glycemic index rating) or the steel cut oats part (which lowers it)?

It's a good question, as a steel cuts oats lover (mine always boil over and mess my stovetop) I am going to spew out a guess.

An oat is processed once
-Steel cut

Another is processed twice (quick)
-Steel cut
-paraboiled

The steel cutting makes it more readily avail for digestion.

Make them 'quick' is a quick heating and drying process.

My guess is they are the same, and if not the 'quick' is very slightly higher.

chris_in_cal

glassyo wrote: »

Which brings us to my question about steel cut oats!
Please and thank you. *curtsey*

Back in my first great weighloss of 2010, I was thinking a lot about GI/GL. I was using the 'extremist' methodology. The top GI/GL thing was non-hulled barley.

For six months I would wake up and eat softball sized serving in the morning. Let me say...the increased amount of fiber in my diet changed me.

That stuff takes forever to cook. But I liked it. There's a nice malty tang.

glassyo

It takes me like 10 to 15 mins to microwave rolled oats so....

That's why I wondered if there was a difference. I already knew steel cut oats take longer to cook but I'm a microwave kinda girl altho I know of some crockpot cooking tips that would help.

I think I'll hit up Trader Joe's and start with the quick cooking steel cut oats. They're cheaper and I'm not even sure I'll like them!

chris_in_cal

glassyo wrote: »

I

I think I'll hit up Trader Joe's and start with the quick cooking steel cut oats. They're cheaper and I'm not even sure I'll like them!

Sounds good. I was thinking you were already a fan. I like Steel cuts..they are more substantial than rolled oats....but don't get me wrong rolleds are good too. Bon appétit.

DFW_Tom

kshama2001 wrote: »

My A1C has always been in the normal range, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had undiagnosed insulin resistance. Will reach out to my PCP at some point.

I've long known that I have a problem with certain types of bread, while sprouted breads like Ezekiel are filling and not triggering.

I don't look at GL/GI numbers, but just eat higher fiber bread, never eat crackers without fat and protein, and know that unless I have a small portion of birthday cake/ice cream, I'm going to feel sick. (This feeling sick happens despite never consuming birthday cake except shortly after a meal.)

I feel sick after drinking apple/orange juice, but fine after eating a whole apple/orange. However, I mostly have fruit with fat and protein, but more because I find it more filling that way.

I almost missed this post. Lucky I finally saw it or I would have missed the reference to Ezekiel bread, which I've never heard of. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

This has been an good, informative thread for me. The comments and suggestions will change how I eat some things. While I now can enjoy apple slices, I dip them in peanut butter because they taste so good that way, it never occurred to me that the fat and protein in the peanut butter might be lowering the GI/GL making my insulin level behave. When I got a munch attack for something like my spouse's stash of chips or crackers, I would eat them plain - not wanting to add anymore dense calories to the processed junk I was eating. <A guilt complex thing.> Next time I'll make sure to eat them with some fat+protein and to heck with the extra calories. Will just make up for the extra calories down the road.

neanderthin

One thing noticed quite a bit from watching videos on people that wear a CGM (Continuous Glucose Monitor) is, foods that should not spike insulin very much and are low GI actually show significant spiking which probably has to do with the individual metabolisms of people. Another confounder is protein and fish for example is highly insulinogenic as are many other proteins and so when we have a dinner with mixed foods, some protein, a complex low GI carb and vegetables will show different responses and mostly not what was expected. Cheers

kshama2001

DFW_Tom wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

My A1C has always been in the normal range, but I wouldn't be surprised if I had undiagnosed insulin resistance. Will reach out to my PCP at some point.

I've long known that I have a problem with certain types of bread, while sprouted breads like Ezekiel are filling and not triggering.

I don't look at GL/GI numbers, but just eat higher fiber bread, never eat crackers without fat and protein, and know that unless I have a small portion of birthday cake/ice cream, I'm going to feel sick. (This feeling sick happens despite never consuming birthday cake except shortly after a meal.)

I feel sick after drinking apple/orange juice, but fine after eating a whole apple/orange. However, I mostly have fruit with fat and protein, but more because I find it more filling that way.

I almost missed this post. Lucky I finally saw it or I would have missed the reference to Ezekiel bread, which I've never heard of. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

This has been an good, informative thread for me. The comments and suggestions will change how I eat some things. While I now can enjoy apple slices, I dip them in peanut butter because they taste so good that way, it never occurred to me that the fat and protein in the peanut butter might be lowering the GI/GL making my insulin level behave. When I got a munch attack for something like my spouse's stash of chips or crackers, I would eat them plain - not wanting to add anymore dense calories to the processed junk I was eating. <A guilt complex thing.> Next time I'll make sure to eat them with some fat+protein and to heck with the extra calories. Will just make up for the extra calories down the road.

@DFW_Tom Around here, all of the supermarkets have sprouted bread in the freezer section. I've also seen Dave's sprouted on the bread shelves of Market Basket, a regional supermarket. (Dave's also makes non-sprouted.)

According to the article, Arnold, Pepperidge Farms and Panera have jumped on the sprouted bread bandwagon, but I haven't noticed them yet. I imagine these would be in the shelves rather than the freezer. The "P" brands are ranked less favorably.

I said "Ezekiel" but it looks like that is actually a few varieties of the Food for Life brand.

I used to really like Alvarado St Bakery flax, but moved away from the one store that carried it.

https://www.eatthis.com/best-sprouted-bread/

xrj22

for weight loss, glycemic index is irrelevant. It is the total number of calories that matters. For controlling diabetes, or avoiding insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome on a moderate carb (i.e. not keto) diet, glycemic index is a better way than carbs to create guidelines about what foods to eat vs. avoid. However, if you want to track numbers and have a goal for each day, that is easier to do with carbs than with glycemic index.