Testosterone and calorie needs

yirara
yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
So here it is: my big secret. 🏳️‍🌈 I'm on testosterone now. I'm non-binary and I'm planning top surgery, and I want to see what T does to me and how I feel with it. Not sure I'll stay on it though. I tried to figure out what T alone means with regards to calorie expenditure, but could not find a lot of info in the community. Some transdudes do heavy lifting and need a lot more calories than before, some see a sudden increase in weight (likely waterweight I'd guess), others just continue as before and feel constantly hungry. So.. at the moment I'm a bit confused on whether I need to change anything. Being a not tall, possibly menopausal xx-chromosome bearer, my weightloss calories are at 1400 plus exercise. And I'm trying to lose a bit more weight before surgery for the best possible outcome.

Has anyone actually looked into this? I'm slightly at a loss and not sure whether trial and error and just observing helps, or whether I might just imagining things 😅
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Replies

  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,751 Member
    Testosterone alone won't change your calorie needs. But increased heavy lifting/working out would.
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    That's the question though... There's not a lot of decent literature on this, a few self-reporting low cohort studies as far as I can see, and they don't seem to be conclusive. I don't expect full male calorie needs, but maybe a bit more just by naturally a bit more muscles? I have no idea.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,964 Member
    T will encouragen muscle gain, strength and recovery. It also help to retain muscle if you're on a weight loss regimen.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    T will encouragen muscle gain, strength and recovery. It also help to retain muscle if you're on a weight loss regimen.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    Yep. I'm curious what happens. Well, my weightloss was a bit too fast to start with and I tried to slow down. So I guess I'll notice when something totally unexpected happens. Do wonder if water retention from working out might initially be stronger, because maybe stronger workout and stronger healing/regeneration.
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    I'm really glad you felt comfortable sharing.

    a5jp2ehuu4w9.png

    Awww, wee fluffy cat is fluffy <3
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    Aww, thanks a lot @AnnPT77 Yes, I know your body tried to kill yourself <3 I hope you don't think it's odd that I want to get rid of the same tissue that is healthy. I'm not too worried about the surgery, mind. And it will still take at least another 6 months as procedures here on health insurances are somewhat lengthy. But I can't wait. Phew.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,123 Member
    yirara wrote: »
    Aww, thanks a lot @AnnPT77 Yes, I know your body tried to kill yourself <3I hope you don't think it's odd that I want to get rid of the same tissue that is healthy. I'm not too worried about the surgery, mind. And it will still take at least another 6 months as procedures here on health insurances are somewhat lengthy. But I can't wait. Phew.

    Nope. I probably wouldn't have made that choice myself, but I think it's a valid and reasonable one in the right circumstances. That's true whether circumstances like yours, or in cases I know where a woman made that choice in order to reduce certain health risks. Other than for feeding babies, that tissue is functionally optional.

    For me, other than when dressing up in more female-esque clothing for special events, that tissue is aesthetically optional, too. You won't have that clothing issue. (I use protheses to make dressy dresses fit, on occasion.)

    There's no reason - speaking to others here, more than you - to assume that there will be loss of sensation. I have some nerve damage and a still-numb area under my left arm, but it's minor, and resulted from the lymph node removal part of it.
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    edited November 2023
    springlering62 wrote: »
    If you’re potentially menopausal then obviously you’re of a “certain age”, as we politely call it down here. I’m utterly in awe of your decision and sincerely hope it brings you much happiness and satisfaction. You’ve had the time and experience to think all this through, so more power to you.

    Nothing else to add, except that having had a reduction, tissue around, on, and under your breasts is about as flimsy as wet Kleenex. Do everything your docs tell you to to promote healing, and don’t think you, uh, know better than them. Because, speaking from experience, I damn well didn’t.

    Heck, I begged my doc to take it all, though not for your reasons, simply because I’d had a lifetime of mega boobs and was totally over boobs, if ya get me but he refused. He said I’d regret it. No, he was just another man who couldn’t imagine a woman not wanting something there.

    Wow, you are really breaking new ground. This is going to come out all wrong, but you hear about younger folk, never the older ones. I hope you’ll be comfortable enough, since you’re amongst friends, to share some of the journey.

    Hugs to you and an easy, pain free journey to where you want to get to.

    Aww, thanks a lot hun <3 Yeah, I had a long, very long time to think it all through. And mind you, it's not just something you want to do and then do. You have to go through a very lengthy process in many European countries to get there. In some countries us NB folks don't even have this possibility. Thus not a hasty decision. While I'm not as endowed as many women I'm just totally fed up with this super annoying tissue. On that note: sculptors of classical antiquity statues would have shout out: Why the *kitten* why!?! But yeah, it's totally not me, how nice and aesthetically pleasing the whole thing(s).

    And T.. well, it's an experiment to be honest. It was either that or female hormone replacement therapy. I have the option to try both. So what the heck, even though some changes will be permanent. But hey, as with weight training I won't wake up one day and have the chest hair of Sean Connery :D (I'm taking a blocker anyway to prevent this). Hoping my Ehlers-Danlos body will be a bit more stable as well eventually. So lets see what happens. The only thing happening so far though is orthostatic hypotension from hell. That's not mentioned in side effects notes :D
  • JBanx256
    JBanx256 Posts: 1,479 Member
    May be worth reaching out to Alex Tilinca (professional trans male bodybuilder). I also had a trans male coach for the photoshoot I did for my 4th birthday - Nikias Tomasiello (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong). Very open & accessible if you have any questions (my kid is gender non-conforming & Nik was awesome to talk to about some of the issues there)
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,123 Member
    edited November 2023
    springlering62 wrote: »
    (snip)
    Nothing else to add, except that having had a reduction, tissue around, on, and under your breasts is about as flimsy as wet Kleenex. Do everything your docs tell you to to promote healing, and don’t think you, uh, know better than them. Because, speaking from experience, I damn well didn’t.
    I'm guessing that the residual breast tissue makes things more difficult. I don't know how much they take/leave in the type of top surgery yirara is having.

    For you, they left - I would bet - a fair bit; for me, as little as possible.

    Gravity on healing tissue is a b-word. I didn't need compression per se at all, though there were substantial bandages for a few days. Then, just gauze pads & tape locally.

    Through being active in support groups, I have many friends who've had mastectomies with/without reconstruction, and various degrees of lumpectomy. Lumpectomy, other than perhaps the very smallest, seems harder than mastectomy, and reconstruction usually the most difficult, especially own-tissue (no implant) reconstruction.
    Heck, I begged my doc to take it all, though not for your reasons, simply because I’d had a lifetime of mega boobs and was totally over boobs, if ya get me but he refused. He said I’d regret it. No, he was just another man who couldn’t imagine a woman not wanting something there.
    (snip)

    My surgeon didn't want to do the bilateral I wanted, either. On a closer exam, turned out I had tumors in both, so got my preferred way in the end. 😆 (Not recommending that strategy to anyone!)

    Not meaning to derail your thread into a general discussion of these surgeries, yirara. More, trying to reach a realistic idea of what you may experience.

    Not sure whether they leave a bit of breast tissue in your type of surgery, yirara, as both sexes have some, women typically more, men typically less. (Yes, that does imply that men can get breast cancer. It's more often fatal for them, because under-noticed and diagnosed late.)

    In my case, I'm very slightly concave, probably not aesthetically optimal for anyone. (I don't mind.)
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    No, please ladies, discuss on! No problem with that.
  • Clim60
    Clim60 Posts: 6 Member
    Your body is going to be going through a lot of fluctuations related to all the hormone changes whether it's menopause or the meds. I've gone through menopause so I can speak about that and I have a transgender offspring and and supported them as they adjusted to the meds. Focus on healthy habits and monitor your weight and anticipate fluctuations for a few months.

    Check out the OutFoundation.org
    They might have some useful tips on exercise as they are focused on exercise and healthy lifestyles and gym inclusion for the Lgbtq+ community.

    Chloie Jonnson might also be a Good resource she is a nutritional coach and CrossFit trainer. And really nice

    https://www.instagram.com/chlojonsson/?hl=en

    Wishing you the best with the transition.

  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,216 Member
    edited November 2023
    Well... maybe your tracker exercise calories will now be closer to reality? Over-time I would think you will burn a few more calories to fuel additional lean mass? And... keep your temper: no bar fights! :wink:

    *sources? I've got nada!
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,781 Member
    yirara wrote: »
    Thanks a lot PAV <3 I'll try not to get into bar flights. Maybe I now DO get the sudden urge to go to bars :D Yeah, sources is a problem: the community is full of bro science, possibly even more so than the average weightloss and fitness forum outside of MFP. Lets see what happens. One positive effect though: I went to bed and had forgotten to turn on my electric mattress topper. It was 15.5C in the bedroom, and I was for once not freezing. Heck, I've not turned the heating on today and I'm still not feeling cold. That's rather pleasant :D

    They do say that women generally prefer a slightly higher room temperature than men (in the office for example), maybe it's a hormonal thing :grin:
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    edited November 2023
    Yeah, quite possible. This is rather pleasant! Of course it's possible that I'm currently burning all the calories! without doing anything🤣

    Well, my travel water weight has gone completely. So.. 9 days of 100gr daily crisps and somewhat irregular eating had no effect. Uh.. and I just booked a flight to Azerbaijan next year. I'm still the same I guess. 😬
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,404 Member
    You've cracked the Code.

    Go on holiday. Eat only bread and crisps. Maintain weight.

    I can see no downside here.

    I know less than zero about the topic here. Congrats...if that's the right thing to say. Aack. I'm so awkward, but I'm happy for you! :flowerforyou:
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    cmriverside wrote: »
    You've cracked the Code.

    Go on holiday. Eat only bread and crisps. Maintain weight.

    I can see no downside here.

    I know less than zero about the topic here. Congrats...if that's the right thing to say. Aack. I'm so awkward, but I'm happy for you! :flowerforyou:

    Aww, thanks a lot hun <3 Really appreciated <3

    I did eat meaty things, salads and additional stuff, mind. The best was probably a slightly fermented buckwheat porridge with duck <3 Hmm.. maybe I should write a diet plan and sell it for 💰
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,781 Member
    Calorie needs are probably not a specific subject here but Sam Bettens (lead singer of K's Choice, famous Belgian band) did a series of vlogs on his transition, in case it interests you: https://www.youtube.com/@SamBettens557/videos
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    Oh wow, thanks a lot! I do know the band name and that they're Belgian, but that's pretty much it.
  • loulee997
    loulee997 Posts: 273 Member
    edited November 2023
    yirara wrote: »
    So here it is: my big secret. 🏳️‍🌈 I'm on testosterone now. I'm non-binary and I'm planning top surgery, and I want to see what T does to me and how I feel with it. Not sure I'll stay on it though. I tried to figure out what T alone means with regards to calorie expenditure, but could not find a lot of info in the community. Some transdudes do heavy lifting and need a lot more calories than before, some see a sudden increase in weight (likely waterweight I'd guess), others just continue as before and feel constantly hungry. So.. at the moment I'm a bit confused on whether I need to change anything. Being a not tall, possibly menopausal xx-chromosome bearer, my weightloss calories are at 1400 plus exercise. And I'm trying to lose a bit more weight before surgery for the best possible outcome.

    Has anyone actually looked into this? I'm slightly at a loss and not sure whether trial and error and just observing helps, or whether I might just imagining things 😅

    I don't know about transition. However, you may want to look into studies where testosterone was given to patients who stopped producing their own through accident, surgery, or disease. There have been more studies on that. It won't be the same, but might give you a jumping-off point.

    Study on increased Testerone and weight loss

    I'm assuming --and it may be wrong--that when people first go on T, they get increased appetite--just like you would with puberty. Technically, it is a 2nd puberty. The hunger increase should taper off. Eventually, the T should build higher muscle tone and make it slightly easier to maintain your weight.

    But transition is slightly different than childhood puberty--so things may vary.

    In the short term, i wouldn't change anything. If you gain or lose to fast, you can adjust.

    Good luck.

  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    Well, one thing I can say: I have absolutely no hunger. Like: If I eat something I do because I want something yummy or because I'm bored or because I always eat at that time. But then my stomach feels really full very early on. I do put this down as some odd kind of placebo effect.
  • drv123
    drv123 Posts: 72 Member
    I can share a bit of second hand data, hope it will help. I'm CIS but a close family member is a trans man taking testosterone. He is around 5 foot 2 and 120ish pounds so pretty small and does work out but unfortunately hasn't had a huge increase in caloric burn since transitioning. Maybe 100 extra calories per day after a few years of T.

    Wishing you the best!
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,216 Member
    Not hungry was not what I was expecting to hear!

    I guess the trend, in the end, will still tell you what the trend really is! At least once things settle down a bit! 🤷‍♂️
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    Yeah, it's seriously odd, but I'm sure things will settle and all will go back to normal. :s For now, sitting in a meeting that overruns massively and I'm not getting hungry is somewhat pleasant. Not the meeting obviously, but feeling fine is. :D
  • yirara
    yirara Posts: 9,913 Member
    drv123 wrote: »
    I can share a bit of second hand data, hope it will help. I'm CIS but a close family member is a trans man taking testosterone. He is around 5 foot 2 and 120ish pounds so pretty small and does work out but unfortunately hasn't had a huge increase in caloric burn since transitioning. Maybe 100 extra calories per day after a few years of T.

    Wishing you the best!

    Thanks a lot! That's super interesting. I honestly don't expect anything dramatic, but the community is so full of bro science it's unreal.
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,590 Member
    No insight or anything from me, but just sending you good vibes for your journey 😀

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