Opinion on leg day program

littlenightmare566

Hi! I'm a bit lost to bodybuilding as I've been trying to bulk for a while now but I keep hitting a plateau or even lose weight sometimes. (I'm a woman, 19y, eating 2,400kcal)
I workout 4 times a week (not legs only but I don't know if I'm doing it right on this day specifically - I train legs 2 times a week)

here's my leg day program:
5x10 weighted lunges
5x10 squats
6x10 leg press
5x10 hip trust
5x10 leg curl
5x10 leg extension
And I recently added :
5x10 calf raises and same for deadlifts

Am I doing too much on your opinion ?

dylanronqui

Hey!
I have been the in gym community for a little over 3 years now and I have done a handful of research to find the “best” way to workout. As I’ve found it’s entirely on your goals. Nothing is wrong with doing 5x10 for all your workouts, but if you’re working out trying to gain weight it could be prohibiting you from your full potential.Try a 4x6-8 workout where you use your working weight for all. I tend do that for muscle growth less then hypertrophy. Otherwise if you want to stick with hypertrophy workouts go with a 4x10-12 and you can achieve that. Just look those terms up if those don’t make sense.

Dieting obviously is important but what are you eating and how much water are you drinking? A lot of weight-loss even if you go to the gym
can be attributed to water-weight and dieting issues. In order to gain weight ,the good kind, you want to be eating high protein and low fat foods. Obviously this isn’t for everyone but as I’ve found through my own research and doing it my self it works very well. Also making sure to hit your caloric intake is just as important so things like rice,bread, and other things could help with hitting your calories in a day. Nevertheless continue going to the gym , never let short term progress affect your future. You’ll eventually hit your goals if you push yourself and be consistent.

ninerbuff

If you're losing weight, then you're NOT in a calorie surplus. To build muscle means to gain weight (good weight) and you need a surplus to do this. Experiment a little, you may need 2800 calories and see how that goes.

You leg workout looks fine, you just have to continually increase poundages incrementally. Progressive overload is how you put on more muscle. Also you can increase the reps to 12-15 on say squats and leg press to get more blood into your legs during a set.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Retroguy2000

Probably, yes it's too much volume. And/or you aren't going close enough to failure on those sets. If you were, then doing 21 sets for quads in a workout, twice a week, would be way too much volume and fatigue. TBH it sounds like junk volume. A beginner should be getting 10-15 working sets per week, intermediate 15-20 sets.

I like the selection, and that you're doing legs 2x a week. And you're activating the hams early with the lunges, which is good.

For each of those exercises, actually work out where your failure is, which means you can still grind out a full rep with good form. You may find that while you've been doing 10 reps with this weight you could actually get 15 reps. Note that if a beginner you shouldn't go to failure, this is just to learn where that point is. If a beginner, 2 reps in reserve is fine. If intermediate, then you can go to failure on the final set.

You can definitely build muscle at 10 reps, but I'd suggest going for 12-15 reps. It's a nice sweet spot for hypertrophy without cardio becoming a limiting factor. So if your failure is after 14 reps say, then do 12 reps of that, and work your way up to 15 reps over a few workouts, then increase the weight and go back to 12 reps.

A quick change you could make is do squats in one workout and leg press in the other (leg press to higher reps). That will save you a lot of time. And do 1-2 fewer working sets per exercise. If you work out where failure is and go to 2 RIR or 1 RIR, you should be feeling it despite doing far fewer sets than currently.

Hip thrusts are popular, but you can find something better for the glutes. Recent research is showing that the muscle grows best if put under load in a stretched position, which is the opposite setup for the hip thrust.

Calf raises you can probably go higher reps, and very short rest periods.

littlenightmare566

dylanronqui wrote: »

Dieting obviously is important but what are you eating and how much water are you drinking? A lot of weight-loss even if you go to the gym
can be attributed to water-weight and dieting issues. In order to gain weight ,the good kind, you want to be eating high protein and low fat foods. Obviously this isn’t for everyone but as I’ve found through my own research and doing it my self it works very well. Also making sure to hit your caloric intake is just as important so things like rice,bread, and other things could help with hitting your calories in a day.

I am vegan, so this is high in fat and carbs; I eat the following :

Breakfast ; 60g of bread, 20g of tahini, 1 glass of soy milk
Lunch : 150g of beans/pulses and veggies, 50g of bread and 30g of nut butter
Snack/dessert : 1 apple, 1 soy yoghurt, 30g of oats, 20g nut butter/tahin
Dinner : 150g beans/rice/pasta + 150g tofu, veggies,
Dessert : 1 apple, 1 soy yoghurt, 50g of bread and 30g of nut butter

So it makes 109 of fat, 260g of carbs, and roughly 100g of protein for a regular day

I drink about 1.5L or 2L I assume. I don't count that honestly

littlenightmare566

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Probably, yes it's too much volume. And/or you aren't going close enough to failure on those sets. If you were, then doing 21 sets for quads in a workout, twice a week, would be way too much volume and fatigue. TBH it sounds like junk volume. A beginner should be getting 10-15 working sets per week, intermediate 15-20 sets.

For each of those exercises, actually work out where your failure is, which means you can still grind out a full rep with good form. You may find that while you've been doing 10 reps with this weight you could actually get 15 reps. Note that if a beginner you shouldn't go to failure, this is just to learn where that point is. If a beginner, 2 reps in reserve is fine. If intermediate, then you can go to failure on the final set.

You can definitely build muscle at 10 reps, but I'd suggest going for 12-15 reps. It's a nice sweet spot for hypertrophy without cardio becoming a limiting factor. So if your failure is after 14 reps say, then do 12 reps of that, and work your way up to 15 reps over a few workouts, then increase the weight and go back to 12 reps.

Ok thanks!
I don't really feel fatigued though. I workout in the morning and I don't have DOMS in the following day, whereas last year when I was working out at night I did have DOMS in the morning after. Which is why I added more exercises this year, didn't think it would be counterproductive.


But for squats or leg press for example, I struggle to do more than 10. (I don't go full squat until my glutes almost touch the floor so idk if I'm doing them right) I read on websitres that you shouldn't do more than 10/12 to build muscle, that's why I based myself on this.

Retroguy2000

littlenightmare566 wrote: »

Ok thanks!

I don't really feel fatigued though. I workout in the morning and I don't have DOMS in the following day, whereas last year when I was working out at night I did have DOMS in the morning after. Which is why I added more exercises this year, didn't think it would be counterproductive.

But for squats or leg press for example, I struggle to do more than 10. (I don't go full squat until my glutes almost touch the floor so idk if I'm doing them right) I read on websitres that you shouldn't do more than 10/12 to build muscle, that's why I based myself on this.

You wouldn't expect to have DOMS. It's not a good indicator of anything, and it's more likely in untrained people, or if you're trying something new.

I still question "struggle to do more than 10" with that many sets plus "I don't really feel fatigued". If you cut the number of sets down to a reasonable level, you'd probably be able to do more reps, which would enable you to increase the weight and return to the low end of your rep range, and so on.

I mention the going to failure once aspect again because a lot of people don't really know where that is, e.g. I remember someone on this forum saying they were doing sets of 10 for something and had been for a while, and I suggested trying just once to go to failure, to see where that is. Which again means you can still grind out a rep slowly, but with good form. They reported back they got 14 reps and were very pleased. That means they were at 4 RIR, which isn't going to lead to much adaptation or growth. So they were able to increase weight and progress.

You can build muscle at any rep range. The sweet spot is around 10-15 because 5 reps is higher fatigue to stimulus ratio, and builds more strength, which means you can't do as many sets therefore it's less total volume, and 30 reps is more endurance based because it needs more cardio, and it takes longer. The first 25 reps of a 30 rep set may not feel like hard work either, and then you may also stop that set too soon because you misjudged how many RIR you had left, or you got winded.

As you noted, it's easier to do higher reps for isolation than some compounds, especially squats. You can target more reps in leg press than barbell squat though, and more safely.

ninerbuff

littlenightmare566 wrote: »

dylanronqui wrote: »

Dieting obviously is important but what are you eating and how much water are you drinking? A lot of weight-loss even if you go to the gym
can be attributed to water-weight and dieting issues. In order to gain weight ,the good kind, you want to be eating high protein and low fat foods. Obviously this isn’t for everyone but as I’ve found through my own research and doing it my self it works very well. Also making sure to hit your caloric intake is just as important so things like rice,bread, and other things could help with hitting your calories in a day.

I am vegan, so this is high in fat and carbs; I eat the following :

Breakfast ; 60g of bread, 20g of tahini, 1 glass of soy milk
Lunch : 150g of beans/pulses and veggies, 50g of bread and 30g of nut butter
Snack/dessert : 1 apple, 1 soy yoghurt, 30g of oats, 20g nut butter/tahin
Dinner : 150g beans/rice/pasta + 150g tofu, veggies,
Dessert : 1 apple, 1 soy yoghurt, 50g of bread and 30g of nut butter

So it makes 109 of fat, 260g of carbs, and roughly 100g of protein for a regular day

I drink about 1.5L or 2L I assume. I don't count that honestly

Only PROTEIN builds muscle fibers. If you're not getting in enough protein, then you're not going to increase muscle. Good rule of thumb is 1gram per pound of lean bodyweight.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

nossmf

Doing squats and deadlifts in the same workout can be difficult if you're using a significant amount of weight. I alternate which one is featured in any given leg workout.

cupcakesandproteinshakes

That looks like a lot of volume to me. It would anhilate me to do all that in one session and take hours. Do some research and find a programme that fits your goals and your training history. There is a thread on programmes

littlenightmare566

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

I still question "struggle to do more than 10" with that many sets plus "I don't really feel fatigued". If you cut the number of sets down to a reasonable level, you'd probably be able to do more reps, which would enable you to increase the weight and return to the low end of your rep range, and so on.

I mention the going to failure once aspect again because a lot of people don't really know where that is, e.g. I remember someone on this forum saying they were doing sets of 10 for something and had been for a while, and I suggested trying just once to go to failure, to see where that is. Which again means you can still grind out a rep slowly, but with good form. They reported back they got 14 reps and were very pleased. That means they were at 4 RIR, which isn't going to lead to much adaptation or growth. So they were able to increase weight and progress.

Thanks for the detailed answers, it is very helpful.
I started my week with my leg day and did the following modifications :

5x10 weighted lunges
5x12 squats
4x8 hip trust (with 3 second hold at the top)
6x10 leg press
5x10 leg curl (until failure)
4x15 calf raises

Retroguy2000

It's good that you're reducing... but it's still too much :-)

Do a Google for how many working sets per week, and add a qualifier for intermediate if needed (1-3 years experience). You'll find that about 10-20 sets is optimal for non-advanced. Above that is diminishing returns at best. You're still doing 32 there for quads! One result I saw mentioned the bro split, saying this:

"As an intermediate, you might want to use a workout split that trains your muscles twice per week, doing 6–8 sets per muscle per workout. The elephant in the room is the Bro Split, where you only train a muscle once per week. In that case, you might want to do as many as 12 sets per body part in a single workout."

And you're doing more than that in a single workout, and more than double that in the week!

Consider this for quads:

3 sets lunges
4 sets squats
4 sets leg press

That's 20 sets per week, ideal. As mentioned before, if you reduce total sets more then you may be able to do a few more reps than you currently manage, which means you can move up in weight too. And it's nitpicking, but I'd suggest squats to have the lowest rep count rather than the highest, and definitely for leg press to have higher reps than squats, so e.g. maybe target a rep range of 10-12 for squats and 12-15 for leg press, moving up in weight if you're at the high end of the range.

nossmf

Just to play devil's advocate, but I do the opposite: sets of 15-20 on squats, and sets of 8-10 on leg press. YMMV. I do stick to 15 sets per week quads and 20 sets per week hamstrings/glutes (plus 5 sets calves each leg day).