ideas for tackling fatigue with an increased exercise regime
clcrafter8950
Posts: 903 Member
I've slowly increased my exercise routines which for me, seems to be the best way to move the scale lower. I've combined walking, cycling, rowing and stretching for a total between 45 mins to 1.5 hours per day. I felt great but I feel like I'm hitting a bit of a wall energy wise and also nodding off in the evening. I would appreciate insights to help me keep up with my routine. Thanks in advance! 
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Best Answers
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I don't mean to be trite, seriously, but it would be easier to just Google for it, since I'd have to do the same anyway.1
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clcrafter8950 wrote: »Retroguy2000 wrote: »Zone 2 is your friend. It can burn a surprising amount of calories, especially if you are very overweight, without introducing a lot of systemic fatigue, and with less risk of reduced NEAT that I mentioned before.
If you burned an additional X calories exercising compared to not, and your NEAT went down because you were so wiped out, that's the equivalent of burning an additional 0.5*X or 0.75*X.
Thanks very much for your advice. Is there a source to learn a little more about Zones (ie. zone 2) and NEAT? Appreciate your help and time
Retro's right, it's easy to find this stuff on a web search, if you want to wade in deeply. It's not essential to wade in deeply, though. Here's a mini-essay on the basics, including why the technical view is kinda optional:
Zones are different heart rate ranges. There are 4-zone schemes, 5-zone schemes, I think maybe even 6-zone schemes. The are even two different types of zone schemes, percent of maximum heart rate, and percent of heart rate reserve. (We don't need to get into that. I'm just mentioning it to hint that "Zone 2" sounds all cool and technical, but that it's a pretty approximate concept to just toss out as if it were some kind of absolute
.)
If you don't have a sports-tested personal maximum heart rate (HRmax), the zones are based on an age formula, often 220 minus age. Since a large minority of people have a HRmax that's notably different from the age estimates, the zones are a little iffy if you don't have a sports-test HRmax estimate IMO. (Variation in HRmax is more about genetics than about fitness, BTW.)
It's OK, though. The basic important message is "do mostly low-ish intensity exercise". You can use a Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) scale. There are a bunch of different ones, this is just a random example, though one with better-than-average descriptions:
In that scheme, something in the "comfortable pace" zone, maybe even "light and easy", is what we'd be talking about here: It's pretty low intensity. You can continue it for a long time without accumulating much fatigue.
But zone 2 in a heart rate scheme or "comfortable pace" in RPE is not magically totally non-fatiguing, nor are higher zones or RPEs somehow magically punitively exhausting: Context, duration, frequency. current fitness level, and training effects (among other things) play into how fatiguing a thing is.
Again, the basic message is common sense: Don't get over-fatigued. When you do high-intensity work, keep it short. When you can, do long low intensity work, shooting for a pace/intensity that's not very tiring.
NEAT is non-exercise activity thermogenesis, the calories you burn doing stuff other than intentional exercise, like job, home chores, non-exercise hobbies, etc. Some of NEAT is subtle, like spontaneous movement (fidgeting is an easy to understand example of spontaneous movement, but not the only subtle movement that can be affected).
Again, common sense applies: If our intentional exercise is too fatiguing, we tend to drag through the day(s) and do less on the NEAT side of activity. Since NEAT is a bigger calorie number for most of us than intentional exercise is, we can effectively wipe out some fraction of our exercise calories by reducing our NEAT. That's a true thing, but Retro seems to worry about that quite a bit. I don't, really.
Why don't I? Because (broken record) I think common sense applies, if a person understands that it can happen and pays attention. Notice if you start feeling like some of your enjoyable non-exercise activities are feeling tedious or boring, so you want to do them less. You may be fatigued. Ditto for daily life things like cooking less elaborate meals (if you're the cook), simplifying the cleaning routine, putting off high-effort home projects. Notice if a calorie level that's been working pretty well starts resulting in slower loss. Notice if you're resting more, wanting to go to bed earlier. Notice if you feel draggy and aching much of the time. That kind of thing. You want a routine that's mostly energizing, not exhausting (other than maybe a few minutes of "whew" right after the workout).
Obviously, you have common sense: Your OP represents that you've noticed fatigue and are concerned about it. Our advice is to mostly exercise at low intensity (call it Zone 2 or whatever, doesn't matter), and pay attention to managing fatigue. There's a bunch of technical stuff that maybe matters to those of us who pursue performance in some cardiovascular-focused sport, but a person doesn't need to understand all of that to grasp the concept "don't do so much so soon that you get overtired", y'know?
Best wishes!
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Answers
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Do you take any rest days?
How big of a calorie deficit are you running (i.e., are you eating enough)?2 -
I find the fatigue of having exercised helps me sleep.
But if you're feeling drained, then perhaps you need to rethink your strategy. As mentioned by mtaratoot:
- have you increased your activity level too quickly perhaps (you mention slowly, but time is relative your body might disagree regarding the slow part) ? Or are you not taking enough rest?
- are you aiming for a rapid rate of loss/not eating back exercise calories?
Could anything else come into play? Anemia or other deficiencies? Low thyroid?
I actually just came from the doctor for that very reason - blood draw because of general fatigue - last time I felt like this I was severely vitamin D deficient (the tail end of winter...).
Other possibility (just read a comment here on MFP about it): low blood pressure can make you feel tired as well. If you take BP medication and you've lost weight, you may need to reduce your dose.2 -
Do you take any rest days?
How big of a calorie deficit are you running (i.e., are you eating enough)?
I wasn't taking rest days but I guess my body is telling me that I should. Good point when I looked back at my tracking...With exercise I was running at 500-1200 deficit. Perhaps I'm pushing the deficit. Is there a general rule of thumb of how much a deficit I should try for when adding exercise. Thank you so much for your feedback 0 -
I find the fatigue of having exercised helps me sleep.
But if you're feeling drained, then perhaps you need to rethink your strategy. As mentioned by mtaratoot:
- have you increased your activity level too quickly perhaps (you mention slowly, but time is relative your body might disagree regarding the slow part) ? Or are you not taking enough rest?
- are you aiming for a rapid rate of loss/not eating back exercise calories?
Could anything else come into play? Anemia or other deficiencies? Low thyroid?
I actually just came from the doctor for that very reason - blood draw because of general fatigue - last time I felt like this I was severely vitamin D deficient (the tail end of winter...).
Other possibility (just read a comment here on MFP about it): low blood pressure can make you feel tired as well. If you take BP medication and you've lost weight, you may need to reduce your dose.
Thanks so much for your feedback. Yes, you're right it might be a bit too much of an increase in exercise. My goal is a slow long term weight loss. Ironically, yes I've always been low on Vitamin D even with supplements and I take BP pills. I haven't lost enough weight to impact my BP meds yet. I think I'll focus on healthy protein options to narrow my calorie deficit. Any idea on the amount of deficit people shoot for? Thanks so much for your insights. You've been a great help 0 -
clcrafter8950 wrote: »Do you take any rest days?
How big of a calorie deficit are you running (i.e., are you eating enough)?
I wasn't taking rest days but I guess my body is telling me that I should. Good point when I looked back at my tracking...With exercise I was running at 500-1200 deficit. Perhaps I'm pushing the deficit. Is there a general rule of thumb of how much a deficit I should try for when adding exercise. Thank you so much for your feedback
This graph is a general answer.
I lost 80 pounds, always ate about 300-500 more calories to fuel the exercise when I did it.
There is a bit of a trial and error when it comes to exercise calories, and it does somewhat rely on your current weight, general fitness level and intensity of the exercise.
Generally, add in the exercise using myfitnesspal's Exercise tab, eat more. How much more is up for debate. I just used the site's numbers and that worked well for me.
It's an experiment we all have to run for ourselves, but when I was under-eating I could tell because I was always tired and felt depleted after exercise.
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You have to be careful with the estimated calories for exercise, especially if it's enough to be putting you to sleep. Not only does exercise for that long magnify the potential error involved in any estimate, but if you are that wiped out after it then your NEAT drops, and that's a huge part of the estimated daily calories burned.
I would consider:
1. Getting fuel in the 1-3 hours before a workout, i.e. some carbs.
2. If the workout is quite intense, lower it to zone 2 or shorten it.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »clcrafter8950 wrote: »Do you take any rest days?
How big of a calorie deficit are you running (i.e., are you eating enough)?
I wasn't taking rest days but I guess my body is telling me that I should. Good point when I looked back at my tracking...With exercise I was running at 500-1200 deficit. Perhaps I'm pushing the deficit. Is there a general rule of thumb of how much a deficit I should try for when adding exercise. Thank you so much for your feedback
This graph is a general answer.
I lost 80 pounds, always ate about 300-500 more calories to fuel the exercise when I did it.
There is a bit of a trial and error when it comes to exercise calories, and it does somewhat rely on your current weight, general fitness level and intensity of the exercise.
Generally, add in the exercise using myfitnesspal's Exercise tab, eat more. How much more is up for debate. I just used the site's numbers and that worked well for me.
It's an experiment we all have to run for ourselves, but when I was under-eating I could tell because I was always tired and felt depleted after exercise.
This is great info. The chart was extremely helpful and explains a lot. Great suggestions also @Retroguy2000 thank you! 0 -
clcrafter8950 wrote: »Do you take any rest days?
How big of a calorie deficit are you running (i.e., are you eating enough)?
I wasn't taking rest days but I guess my body is telling me that I should. Good point when I looked back at my tracking...With exercise I was running at 500-1200 deficit. Perhaps I'm pushing the deficit. Is there a general rule of thumb of how much a deficit I should try for when adding exercise. Thank you so much for your feedback
I would echo what @cmriverside wrote. I only lost 35 pounds, and I aimed for 250-300 calorie deficit, and I eat back exercise calories.1 -
I agree with most of the advice above, especially the importance of scheduling in rest/recovery (that's where the magic of repair happens), and dialing back your calorie deficit to fuel yourself better. As a bonus, the latter will give you more calories to eat without having to continuously ramp up exercise.
In general, fast weight loss is a trap; better is finding a sustainable routine that triggers sensibly moderate weight loss and leaves you with good overall life balance, i.e.. enough time and energy for job, family, home chores, social life and anything else important to you. That kind of approach helps pave a good on-ramp to long-term maintenance.
In addition to advice in posts above, I have a couple of thoughts from the perspective of cardiovascular (CV) training, i.e., exercising to build athletic performance. Maybe you're already thinking in these terms, but it isn't clear from your OP.
Elite CV athletes don't do all high intensity all the time. High intensity is more of a condiment or a side dish on the exercise menu, not a big thing in every workout all year long. The largest volume of work is lower intensity, longer work. They have the best possible professional advice money can buy, so I don't see why us regular duffers would do differently. (The "all HIIT all the time" theme does end up with some advocates here on MFP now and then, but that can backfire in various ways, including the NEAT penalty that Retro mentioned).
Serious athletes, elite or recreational, will tend to use sport-specific periodized training plans that lay out time budgets for various intensities. We may not have those plans if we're not focused on one specific sport's performance, but the concept still applies.
A kind of rule of thumb is to increase volume by no more than about 10% per week. That adds up fast, even though it's gradual. That's volume, though, not intensity (which is a little more complicated).
Besides watching perceived fatigue, you might get some insights from tracking resting heart rate. If it's been dropping (sign of improved CV fitness) then starts creeping up, that can be a sign of over-exercise. Impaired sleep quality can happen, too, contributing to more fatigue. Blood pressure can even increase in some cases, which might be a concern for you. Some fitness trackers/apps these days offer some kind of fatigue scoring, so if you're not using a tracker now, or you haven't tapped into apps that may add that kind of feature, that's something to think about.
If you don't have a tracker, rate of perceived exertion (RPE) tracking can help avoid overdoing, or help notice it happening.
I'm a rower (boats when I can, machines when I must) and cycle for variety (also trails/machines), and whatever experience or knowledge I have comes from the rowing side of things. I've run formal training plans in the past, but struggle with some of the same issues you're experiencing when I'm "just working out" vs. running a plan. It's really easy to push too hard, too soon, in either volume or intensity. It doesn't feel like a big increase . . . until it does.
Best wishes!1 -
@mtaratoot and @AnnPT77 a heartfelt thanks for invaluable information. I have learned so much from everyone's insights and guidance. Yes, I'm on a long journey and would prefer a slower overall lifestyle change. I subscribe to a program called IFIT and they have a myriad of workouts...they do have recovery day workouts but MOST workouts focus on Intervals, tabatas HIIT etc. I don't go hardcore on the bike however the rowing workouts do push my RPE. (I started with IFIT when I got my rowing machine to enjoy watching workouts that take place outdoors versus a studio)..I haven't been consistent though so I need to slowly build. I will dial things back a bit fitness wise, add a fitness watch to my wishlist and continue trying to learn more including eating some of my exercise calories...so much to learn...I'm really glad I came back to myfitnesspal. Kindest regards! 2
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Zone 2 is your friend. It can burn a surprising amount of calories, especially if you are very overweight, without introducing a lot of systemic fatigue, and with less risk of reduced NEAT that I mentioned before.
If you burned an additional X calories exercising compared to not, and your NEAT went down because you were so wiped out, that's the equivalent of burning an additional 0.5*X or 0.75*X.2 -
Retroguy2000 wrote: »Zone 2 is your friend. It can burn a surprising amount of calories, especially if you are very overweight, without introducing a lot of systemic fatigue, and with less risk of reduced NEAT that I mentioned before.
If you burned an additional X calories exercising compared to not, and your NEAT went down because you were so wiped out, that's the equivalent of burning an additional 0.5*X or 0.75*X.
Thanks very much for your advice. Is there a source to learn a little more about Zones (ie. zone 2) and NEAT? Appreciate your help and time 0
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