Is a calorie a calorie ?

Funnydream

Being very close to my target weight and keen to get this maintainence thing right for the first time in my life, I've been doing some experimentation on my intake.

Is a calorie gained from, say, fats, weighted more in terms of weight gain than a calorie gained from, say, veg? I have a feeling (no empirical evidence here) that this is the case.

Does anyone know anything about this?

SHBoss1673

This isn't an easy question to answer.

In terms of the definition of a calorie it's the same no matter what food it comes from. I.E. a calorie (actually a Kcalorie but that's neither here nor there) is a unit of measure for the amount of heat it takes to raise 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius.

but in terms of the human body, different types of foods offer different means of breakdown and usage. The body doesn't just take all incoming food and immediately convert them to energy. Some food types are broken down into component parts for building blocks, some are used for energy, and some are stored for later use, and a few are passed through the system and expelled.

Even then if a calorie is broken up and recombined as energy, there are different pathways to energy that can be used. Some foods are immediately broken up into simple sugars then recombined into glucose(glucose is the sugar that our body can burn as energy) and sent to the areas of the body that need energy immediately. Others are turned into other molecules and circulated as free fatty acids (triglycerides) and yet others are turned into lipids and stored (body fat). It depends on the needs of the body at the time of digestion.

then you have the "non-carbohydrate" foods, like fats and proteins. Both of which can be eventually turned into glucose derivatives if necessary, but this isn't the primary pathway for either of them. The body will use carbohydrates first for energy if it has a choice, but if there is either too little incoming carbohydrates, or the carbohydrates consumed are taking to long to digest, the body will supplement this with fat and protein to increase energy production. If there isn't enough incoming calories total to meet the needs (all forms of calories), then the body will siphon off calories from existing areas, using fat stores and protein stores as reserves. It's a longer process to convert fat and protein into usable calories, which is why carbohydrates are the preferred energy source for the body, but they will still be used if deemed necessary by the body.

So the answer with regards to the human body is essentially, no a calorie is not always the same.

If you eat refined sugar, the road map from food to energy is a few minutes, if you eat a carrot, the road map is about 2 hours, thus you can see, by eating sugary foods or refined enriched white flour foods you risk flooding your body with extra calories quickly, which can lead to fat storage (and that sugar high you get when you eat something full of sugar and white flour). Conversely if you eat high quality complex carbohydrate foods like veggies, it takes longer for the body to break them down and use them, which means no glut of calories in the body, which means less conversion to fat. this is without all the other benefits you receive from natural foods (like the vitamin, and mineral needs of the body).

Funnydream

Thank you SHBOSS for such a full, comprehensive reply. Much appreciated! I'm going to add you as a friend, because I need knowledgeable friends like you, if that's ok?

iluvsparkles

Once again Banks, you explained it in a way that we can understand. Well done...I promise that there are still people out there who really listen to your advice.

lina1131

This isn't an easy question to answer.

In terms of the definition of a calorie it's the same no matter what food it comes from. I.E. a calorie (actually a Kcalorie but that's neither here nor there) is a unit of measure for the amount of heat it takes to raise 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius.

but in terms of the human body, different types of foods offer different means of breakdown and usage. The body doesn't just take all incoming food and immediately convert them to energy. Some food types are broken down into component parts for building blocks, some are used for energy, and some are stored for later use, and a few are passed through the system and expelled.

Even then if a calorie is broken up and recombined as energy, there are different pathways to energy that can be used. Some foods are immediately broken up into simple sugars then recombined into glucose(glucose is the sugar that our body can burn as energy) and sent to the areas of the body that need energy immediately. Others are turned into other molecules and circulated as free fatty acids (triglycerides) and yet others are turned into lipids and stored (body fat). It depends on the needs of the body at the time of digestion.

then you have the "non-carbohydrate" foods, like fats and proteins. Both of which can be eventually turned into glucose derivatives if necessary, but this isn't the primary pathway for either of them. The body will use carbohydrates first for energy if it has a choice, but if there is either too little incoming carbohydrates, or the carbohydrates consumed are taking to long to digest, the body will supplement this with fat and protein to increase energy production. If there isn't enough incoming calories total to meet the needs (all forms of calories), then the body will siphon off calories from existing areas, using fat stores and protein stores as reserves. It's a longer process to convert fat and protein into usable calories, which is why carbohydrates are the preferred energy source for the body, but they will still be used if deemed necessary by the body.

So the answer with regards to the human body is essentially, no a calorie is not always the same.

If you eat refined sugar, the road map from food to energy is a few minutes, if you eat a carrot, the road map is about 2 hours, thus you can see, by eating sugary foods or refined enriched white flour foods you risk flooding your body with extra calories quickly, which can lead to fat storage (and that sugar high you get when you eat something full of sugar and white flour). Conversely if you eat high quality complex carbohydrate foods like veggies, it takes longer for the body to break them down and use them, which means no glut of calories in the body, which means less conversion to fat. this is without all the other benefits you receive from natural foods (like the vitamin, and mineral needs of the body).

This is seriously the best I have ever had it explained to me and I actually understand it (kind of :laugh:) Thanks Banks!

suziblues2000

I just want to say thanx to Funnydream for asking this question and thanx to the person who answered it so completely.

RIght now I"m on my way out the door to take s yr. old grand son to park. When I come back I'm gonna seriously read this.

Thank you again.

stormieweather

I was just reading something about how fat calories are easiest to convert to body fat, and sugar ingested stimulates Insulin production which fires up the fat storage function.

Thanks Banks, for the great response (as usual) :flowerforyou:

sindyb9

Thank you for the question and as always thanks for the great answer banks :drinker:

canstey

I hate to go against an authority like Banks but while he is technically correct on the breakdown of food and the immediate impact on the body (like sugar), he is incorrect that it has any significant effect on weight management at the end of the day. From a weight management point of view, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Eat more calories than you burn regardless of the source and you will gain weight. This is the first law of thermodynamics and the body cannot violate it. There is no "it depends" worth considering. The human body can increase fat reserves even if you eat no fat and the extra energy required to do the conversion as opposed to storing fat in the fat reserves isn't worth counting.

There are lots of reasons for different breakdowns of macro nutrients for health reasons but that was not the OP question.

SHBoss1673

I'm cool with the calories in vs. calories concept, and I don't believe anything I said counteracted that, but following that principle alone is a far to simplified model to be effective in the long term. My goal is for healthy weight loss. And I'll only ever make recomendations with that in mind. To that point, food type and quality is an important consideration.

if all it took was calories in vs. calories out, then one would be able to eat twinkies every day and still maintain their body. Which is not true. The type and quality of a calorie is JUST as important to long term health and fat loss as is the amount of calories you take in.

Plus when considering thermodynamics, you must consider the net calories. I.E. sugar is a far easier and less costly digestion process than is something more complex like say, vegitible matter. Because complex carbohydrates are not digested until they reach the intestines, and the body must break those carbohydrates out of a fiber matrix before it can be broken down, these types of foods are a much more "expensive" calorie to produce, add to that the metabolic requirements needed to turn a complex carbohydrate into a simple suger, and you have your answer.

Again, not saying calories in vs. calories out isn't a valid concept. Just saying that if you want to look at long term healthy options with fat loss included, then you need to consider more than just the caloric value of a food.

canstey

I think you are mixing weight management and healthy eating too much and it leads people to assume incorrectly that if you eat healthy foods, calories don't count. This is what low-carb diet proponents do; imply without ever actually stating it that the types of food matter more than calories.

Calories in - calories out isn't a concept, it is a fact from physics. There is some small amount of difference in calories consumed by digestion between different types of food but it isn't worth taking into account and saying "Since nuts take more calories to digest, I should only count 90% of the calories in nuts but 100% of the calories in the twinkie". Study after study shows that when calories are controlled, regardless of the quality of the calories weight management results are the same and they did not attempt to compensate for difference in energy required to digest. It just doesn't make enough of a difference. There are some studies that suggest the breakdown of macro nutrients may have an impact on body composition when calories are the same but they are incomplete to come to that conclusion yet.

I totally agree with you that healthy balanced eating is the way to go but that does not negate that eating an excess of calories, whether healthy or not, leads to weight gain. If you follow "Calories always count and they all count the same" you will not be lead astray even if that is only a 99% accurate statement. Then you combine that with "Eating healthy foods and minimizing the amount of processed foods in your diet will help you have a healthier body" and you have a winning combination.

pchristie

This is all so interesting. Thank you for all this valuable information. There is an overabundance of misinformation out there. It is nice to read scientific, research-based facts.

Just to give my two cents on the initial question, what I have noticed with my body is that, there have been times in my life when I have been very thin and have eaten very little of foods like pizza, hot wings, and beer, and then there have been times - like now - when I have been bigger and eaten too much of healthy food with the occasional hot wings and beer

I have felt the best and been the healthiest and the thinnest when I have eaten healthy food and stuck to a low calorie, low fat diet and included exercise as a lifestyle.

SHBoss1673

I think you are mixing weight management and healthy eating too much and it leads people to assume incorrectly that if you eat healthy foods, calories don't count. This is what low-carb diet proponents do; imply without ever actually stating it that the types of food matter more than calories.

Calories in - calories out isn't a concept, it is a fact from physics. There is some small amount of difference in calories consumed by digestion between different types of food but it isn't worth taking into account and saying "Since nuts take more calories to digest, I should only count 90% of the calories in nuts but 100% of the calories in the twinkie". Study after study shows that when calories are controlled, regardless of the quality of the calories weight management results are the same and they did not attempt to compensate for difference in energy required to digest. It just doesn't make enough of a difference. There are some studies that suggest the breakdown of macro nutrients may have an impact on body composition when calories are the same but they are incomplete to come to that conclusion yet.

I totally agree with you that healthy balanced eating is the way to go but that does not negate that eating an excess of calories, whether healthy or not, leads to weight gain. If you follow "Calories always count and they all count the same" you will not be lead astray even if that is only a 99% accurate statement. Then you combine that with "Eating healthy foods and minimizing the amount of processed foods in your diet will help you have a healthier body" and you have a winning combination.

Yeah, I'm not doing this 2 days in a row.

Believe what you like big guy. Someone else can take up this cause, I don't have the energy.

Funnydream

Thank you for all the replies.

The reason I asked the OP question, is that I have observed in myself (not proof of anything except how my body works) that when I eat a set number of calories which are comprised of a higher than normal (for me) amount of fats I tend to gain a pound. When the same number of calories are comprised of low fat foods I would tend to either stay the same or lose weight. Of course there is the variable of exercise (among other variables) and in the main I tend to do the same amount every day. Having said that, I might STILL gain a pound even on a day when the exercise calories are triple the usual amount, but when the intake of food contains more fats.

I'm just mucking about with what I eat because I really need to lick this weight management thing, as I'm totally serious about keeping slim for the rest of life. But it's an interesting experiment and I do thank you all for your comments.

recipe4success

Being very close to my target weight and keen to get this maintainence thing right for the first time in my life, I've been doing some experimentation on my intake.

Is a calorie gained from, say, fats, weighted more in terms of weight gain than a calorie gained from, say, veg? I have a feeling (no empirical evidence here) that this is the case.

Does anyone know anything about this?

The answer is: it depends on what else you ate that day, when you eat those foods, and what you eat at the same time as those foods.

In general I would say it is easier to gain weight from fats, simply because fats are digested last (alcohol, carb and protein are first). In addition, another consideration is the amount of salt in your food...fatty food (depending on the source) can tend to have alot of salt which will inhibit your ability to maintain weight as well (cause bloating).

Vegetable calories will be used by the body faster than fat calories, so yes you are less likely to see weight gain from a slight excess of vegetable consumption.

But all in all, it is the total calories consumed and expended that matters. One can get fat or gain weight even if they are eating clean, healthy foods. You can lose weight just eating mars bars, and gain weight eating carrots, but both of these situations are extremely unhealthy and will result in a drastic decrease in overall health, which is why a balanced diet is important.

sonichic

Interesting discussion. I have to agree with SHBoss1673. you gave a brilliant answer and in nice simple language which people will understand. I always remember this formula from my school days to explain where energy come from.

Fat: 1 gram = 9 calories
Protein: 1 gram = 4 calories
Carbohydrates: 1 gram = 4 calories
Alcohol: 1 gram = 7 calories

On my 1000 calorie a day diet I know what foods I like to pick from. It makes sense really Proetin and Carbs first, and then the fats.
Of course there are good and bad in all food categories.....Thanks again SHBoss1673

canstey

Thank you for all the replies.

The reason I asked the OP question, is that I have observed in myself (not proof of anything except how my body works) that when I eat a set number of calories which are comprised of a higher than normal (for me) amount of fats I tend to gain a pound. When the same number of calories are comprised of low fat foods I would tend to either stay the same or lose weight. Of course there is the variable of exercise (among other variables) and in the main I tend to do the same amount every day. Having said that, I might STILL gain a pound even on a day when the exercise calories are triple the usual amount, but when the intake of food contains more fats.

I'm just mucking about with what I eat because I really need to lick this weight management thing, as I'm totally serious about keeping slim for the rest of life. But it's an interesting experiment and I do thank you all for your comments.

So you are looking at a single day's weight loss/gain and the food for that day and coming to a conclusion? That is much too short a time and between varying water weight and food still being pass through the body you could easily go up or down several pounds in a day.

You cannot gain a pound of fat reserves in a day unless you eat an extra 3500 calories over your expenditure, which you are clearly not doing. If you really want to see if higher fat diet with constant calories makes a difference for you, you would need to eat that diet for a few weeks and see if you keep gaining weight. That is assuming you want to eat a higher fat diet than you do now.

Ryhenblue

I think you are mixing weight management and healthy eating too much and it leads people to assume incorrectly that if you eat healthy foods, calories don't count.

I think just about everyone on this site is here to learn healthy eating to manage their weight. So giving an example with those two things in mind is great. Plus this is a calorie counting site so no one here should get the impression that calories don't matter. Nowhere did Banks imply that you could eat as much healthy food as you want. Yes a calorie is a calorie but simply telling people they can eat what ever as long as they stay within their calorie allotment isn't going to teach people that are here to learn the importance of eating healthy in the long run.

stormieweather

I think, my personal opinion mind you, that a calorie IS a calorie in the same way that a dog is just a dog. It's true, but oh my gosh, there is a hellova lot of difference in dog types....size, fur, physique, temperament, attitude, etc. And there is a huge difference in calorie types as in, it's nutritional content and how it affects your health.

Funnydream

"That is assuming you want to eat a higher fat diet than you do now."

Canstey - thanks, but no thanks! I couldn't imagine anything worse. For some reason eating foods high in fat and salt makes me feel queasy and I am very happily established on my healthy diet. I simply noticed the difference after a small increase - but, as you rightly, I am sure, point out this is more likely to be due to other variables rather than fat intake alone.

Thanks for the answer. Much appreciated.

ccgisme

Is a calorie gained from, say, fats, weighted more in terms of weight gain than a calorie gained from, say, veg? I have a feeling (no empirical evidence here) that this is the case.

I'm no medical expert, but I have to agree with Banks answer to this. The body processes macronutrients differently. A theoretical calorie is a theoretical calorie, but the four calories from a gram of sugar and the nine calories from a gram of fat are going to have different effects on the body. Fat and protein won't produce a spike in blood sugar or elevate insulin in response to the increase in blood sugar.

My understanding of the science here is fuzzy, but increases in insulin may eventually lead to increases in fat storage. (Think gylcemic index here.)

I know from personal experience that I gain weight when I eat starchy carbs and foods high in sugar and I lose weight when I eat vegetables - also carbs. Even if my total calories stay in the same basic range (+/-200 cal).