Carbs ?

Shateyn

So for me to gain some muscle I need 2130 cal a day (500cal surplus) and 272g of Carbs (doing 50/30/20).
I am wondering how much of these carbs should be starchy vs. vegetable carbs and does it matter when I eat them? I know starchy carbs are good before workouts but if by the end of the day I haven't met my carb requirements does that mean I should slam some toast before bed? This seems like a lot of serving of grain, etc. lately.

Thanks!

Mrsallypants

Throw in a cup or two of instant Quaker oats with a banana or two in a blender and drink up?

Eat whole grain starch, not processed white starch or simple sugars not in fruit. Eat fruit and veggies, even corn, potatoes carrots, and peas which are considered to be starchy veggies and not fibrous.

It's difficult to get enough carbs from vegetables except from potatoes and beans, so starch in the form of rice, pasta, bread, and so on will make up the bulk of your carbs as they are calorie and carb dense.

Shateyn

Thank you for your response. So 272g isn't a crazy amount then? Maybe it just seems high to me because I've been eating paleo for the last year, haha

ilovedeadlifts

it just seems high because of the paleo thing.

i routinely ate 300+ grams of carbs while bulking. Super easy to do, as stated above, throw oats into your shakes.
And rice/potatoes are good with anything.

Mobilemuscle

ive realized more and more over the years it isnt so much about the type of carbs but the timing that will be the difference between good, lean gains or excess BF

Try centering the bulk of your carb intake before and after your workout...

Ive had good luck with all kinds of fruits(love watermelon), grits, oats, rice, potato, heck even pop tarts and fruity pebbles

good luck!

fitcolette

Carbs are great energy sources for your muscles and are best used in the beginning of the day. Evening time try to limit the grains. You'd be surprised at how fast veggies add up, carb wise, and oatmeal is a great fast burning carb to have every day.

tquill

ive realized more and more over the years it isnt so much about the type of carbs but the timing that will be the difference between good, lean gains or excess BF

Try centering the bulk of your carb intake before and after your workout...

Ive had good luck with all kinds of fruits(love watermelon), grits, oats, rice, potato, heck even pop tarts and fruity pebbles

good luck!

I agree with try to eat the majority of your carbs pre and post workout. Carbs protect muscle better than any other macro during and after your workouts.

Stamaxo

First of all, I think the surplus is too high, 100-250 kcal is sufficient. Bulking with 500 kcal means most will be fat, then you will want to lose weight after that, so smaller deficit is better. You are not going to build more muscle at 500 kcal than you are at 250 kcal because you can only gain muscle so fast.

You'll probably want to eat complex carbs in the morning, like oats, something to give you energy throughout the day. Eat more as you are bulking. Vegetables are low calorie so you will have to eat ALOT of them, or just eat a normal amount and more rice or something.

No it doesn't matter when you eat them, as long as you eat them. I think it's a good idea to eat simple carbs after workout so you can immediately replenish your body after a workout.

Deborah100660

Muscle building requires increased protein. However, you should look up the maximum grams of protein to gain muscle. Also you need to strength train using resistance or weights. Too much protein can cause kidney problems. Carbohydrates help full your work out. Great magazines that talk about these are Muscle and Fitness for Women, Shape, etc.

Sarauk2sf

The type of carbs do not matter - pick the ones you like the most and give you better energy in the gym.

whierd

Also, carb timing doesn't affect your lean gains or fat mass gains.

grantdumas7

Here is an entertaining video on good carbs vs bad carbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmfI3TLGd4o&list=UUyFjLgx8KwCx7RXKBbnphpg

joshdann

Also, carb timing doesn't affect your lean gains or fat mass gains.

I'm not so sure about that. Insulin is key to both muscular endurance and repair, therefore to gaining lean mass. Carbs not only provide extra on-tap energy but also help raise insulin levels. Timing that insulin spike to occur during your workout and after seems like common sense.

Sarauk2sf

Also, carb timing doesn't affect your lean gains or fat mass gains.

I'm not so sure about that. Insulin is key to both muscular endurance and repair, therefore to gaining lean mass. Carbs not only provide extra on-tap energy but also help raise insulin levels. Timing that insulin spike to occur during your workout and after seems like common sense.

http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5

"Even more so than with protein, carbohydrate dosage and timing relative to resistance training is a gray area lacking cohesive data to form concrete recommendations. It is tempting to recommend pre- and post-exercise carbohydrate doses that at least match or exceed the amounts of protein consumed in these meals. However, carbohydrate availability during and after exercise is of greater concern for endurance as opposed to strength or hypertrophy goals. Furthermore, the importance of co-ingesting post-exercise protein and carbohydrate has recently been challenged by studies examining the early recovery period, particularly when sufficient protein is provided. Koopman et al [52] found that after full-body resistance training, adding carbohydrate (0.15, or 0.6 g/kg/hr) to amply dosed casein hydrolysate (0.3 g/kg/hr) did not increase whole body protein balance during a 6-hour post-exercise recovery period compared to the protein-only treatment. Subsequently, Staples et al [53] reported that after lower-body resistance exercise (leg extensions), the increase in post-exercise muscle protein balance from ingesting 25 g whey isolate was not improved by an additional 50 g maltodextrin during a 3-hour recovery period. For the goal of maximizing rates of muscle gain, these findings support the broader objective of meeting total daily carbohydrate need instead of specifically timing its constituent doses. Collectively, these data indicate an increased potential for dietary flexibility while maintaining the pursuit of optimal timing."

whierd

Also, carb timing doesn't affect your lean gains or fat mass gains.

I'm not so sure about that. Insulin is key to both muscular endurance and repair, therefore to gaining lean mass. Carbs not only provide extra on-tap energy but also help raise insulin levels. Timing that insulin spike to occur during your workout and after seems like common sense.

Yes, and you are not repairing muscle during a workout, you are damaging it. And the majority of muscle repair occurs during sleep.

So...

joshdann

but it's not *only* beneficial for repair, it's also beneficial for endurance. Shipping glycogen into the muscle quickly as you are depleting it. You will still deplete faster than you can replenish, but the net result should be more work done before fatigue.

whierd

For endurance training, yes, you would need those carbs pre-workout. But for strength training, not so much.

joshdann

I don't mean cardio endurance. I mean muscular endurance. As in, how many reps/sets one can perform at a given weight before fatigue becomes too great (training to failure). I know that since I've started timing my carbs I've noticed a longer time to fatigue in the weight room (more work done), and faster recovery afterward. It's not an earth-shattering difference, but it is noticeable. I've added weight to my workouts a little more quickly, so I'm getting stronger faster.

I'm not saying it's *required*. It's more of a fine-tuning thing... but I didn't do this on a whim. I decided to give it a shot based on what I was reading about how insulin affects muscles and fat. I like the results so far. After a few more weeks of doing it this way I'm going to switch it up, to see if I notice a decrease in the same aspects of my workouts that have seen an increase with this plan. I'm after the truth, whether my technique is right or wrong. So far, though, the signs are pointing towards carb timing being effective.

Sarauk2sf

^^having carbs pre-workout can be a very valid reason to time them if you get a better workout. However, there is no need to have carbs specifically before to spike insulin levels. Protein will spike it enough to minimize muscle protein breakdown.

AbsyPernet

ive realized more and more over the years it isnt so much about the type of carbs but the timing that will be the difference between good, lean gains or excess BF

Try centering the bulk of your carb intake before and after your workout...

Ive had good luck with all kinds of fruits(love watermelon), grits, oats, rice, potato, heck even pop tarts and fruity pebbles

good luck!

Well said, I totally agreed, timing is so important:flowerforyou: