Exercise and Beverages

ehju0901

Hey All, this is quite possibly a dumb question, but I am a bit overwhelmed with the different types of pre-workout, protein shakes, hydration drinks, etc. and when to take them.

Here has been my routine recently:

1. Pre-Workout
2. Exercise
3. Hydration (LMNT packet in water during exercise or during breaks)
4. Protein shake

I guess I am most confused on when it is best to have the protein, before or after working out?

FWIW, I am mainly doing cardio for weight loss for my exercise.

What do you all do for your routine? Feel free to include brands as well as I am in the market for a new pre-workout.

xbowhunter

Water is all a human really needs..

neanderthin

It depends on the type of exercise your doing, the duration of that exercise, your existing diet and it's breakdown of nutrients over the course of your day.

I'm going to assume from the way you formulated your question that your doing weight resistance training and I'm also going to assume your in and out within 1 hour. Any pre workout meal/shake that consumed soon before your workout won't factor in basically because of digestion time, so pre workout should take place I believe at least 2 hours before and that pre workout meal will still more than likely be digesting when you then consume that protein shake post workout and really won't be factored in and basically absorbed for a few hours after you workout, so not so crucial really.

Basically what I'm saying is most people don't really need anything if their diet consists of fairly consistent meals and their timing that also contain about the same nutritional profile in each meal with a focus on protein. It's a bit of marketing selling protein really. Of course different people will require a more defined structure if their an athlete, body builder, marathon runner etc and i'm just talking in general sense. Personally I workout 3 times a week and play hockey twice a week and over the years this is the conclusion I've come to after being fairly religious for quite a few years with pre and post workout nutrition and have found that it really doesn't make much noticeable difference, I mostly make sure I'm hydrated and I'm good to go. imo.

Lietchi

xbowhunter wrote: »

Water is all a human really needs..

Well, not entirely. But a lot of the mentioned products do have an effect of making the wallet unnecessarily lighter

- Pre-workout isn't necessary I think (usually contains stimulants among other ingredients?) Never used it myself.
- Hydration (electrolytes) necessary depending on intensity of exercise, temperature, level of sweating, length of exercise... For myself, I know that if I'm running for more than 90 minutes, I need a fruit gel with some sugar and electrolytes or I risk feeling nauseous and weak.
- Protein shake: not necessary - sufficient overall protein intake is necessary, whatever the source (protein is needed to build/repair the muscles, so personally I would put a protein shake after the workout rather than before, if I had to choose a timing - personally I just have dinner right after my workout )

Retroguy2000

Pre-workout is a marketing scam. If you're in a calorie deficit time your meals or snacks around your workout time so you have more energy. Even just a banana or a coffee an hour before is all you need for pre-workout.

Post-workout protein is a myth. Studies have shown that the most important thing is get your daily protein needs in (at least 0.7g per pound if you're lifting, maybe less if you're very obese), and the timing is far less important. You'll probably naturally have a meal or big snack in the hours before or after the workout so you're fine there.

Salt, maybe? I doubt the average person needs to worry about that. I see e.g. Mitchell Hooper (former World's Strongest Man) and similar people add salt because they are so large and work out so hard that they sweat a lot, so they supplement with extra salt.

Creatine is a must. It's safe, cheap and proven. Take 5g any time of the day, just whenever is consistent for you is best really. I take it in the morning with a scoop of protein powder.

Lietchi

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Pre-workout is a marketing scam. If you're in a calorie deficit time your meals or snacks around your workout time so you have more energy. Even just a banana or a coffee an hour before is all you need for pre-workout.

Post-workout protein is a myth. Studies have shown that the most important thing is get your daily protein needs in (at least 0.7g per pound if you're lifting, maybe less if you're very obese), and the timing is far less important. You'll probably naturally have a meal or big snack in the hours before or after the workout so you're fine there.

Salt, maybe? I doubt the average person needs to worry about that. I see e.g. Mitchell Hooper (former World's Strongest Man) and similar people add salt because they are so large and work out so hard that they sweat a lot, so they supplement with extra salt.

Creatine is a must. It's safe, cheap and proven. Take 5g any time of the day, just whenever is consistent for you is best really. I take it in the morning with a scoop of protein powder.

I'm curious, why is this a must according to you?

Retroguy2000

Lietchi wrote: »

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Creatine is a must. It's safe, cheap and proven. Take 5g any time of the day, just whenever is consistent for you is best really. I take it in the morning with a scoop of protein powder.

I'm curious, why is this a must according to you?

As I said, it's safe, cheap and proven.

First Google hit:

Most creatine goes to your skeletal muscles, which convert creatine into a compound of creatine and phosphoric acid (phosphocreatine or creatine phosphate). Phosphocreatine then helps create adenosine triphosphate (ATP). ATP is a source of energy that your cells use when you exercise. So, creatine helps maintain a continuous energy supply to your muscles during intense lifting or exercise. (MY EDIT: Which can mean more reps, and more reps means more progressive overload.)

In addition to providing more energy and helping to increase muscle growth, creatine helps:

Speed up muscle recovery. When you exercise, you create micro-tears in your muscle fibers. As you recover, the micro-tears in your muscle fibers heal, and your muscles get stronger. Creatine helps activate satellite cells in your muscles, which help the micro-tears heal.

Increase anabolic hormones. Anabolic hormones contribute to growth and tissue repair. They include insulin, human growth hormone (hGH), estrogen and testosterone.

Boost water content in muscle cells. Better cell hydration may increase muscle growth and reduce dehydration and muscle cramps.

Creatine can also increase the amount of phosphocreatine in your brain, which may help with your memory.

Lietchi

It's just that 'must' is a strong word, not quite the same connotation as for example recommend' 🙂 to me, 'must' sounds like 'you're wasting time if you workout without taking creatine'.

I've also read that 20-30% of people are non responders? And that it's more useful for people who have been exercising for a while, compared to 'newbies'?
(I've been 'out' so long myself that I consider myself a newbie in strength training, having focused mainly on running)

nossmf

As noted above, creatine is used by the body for a variety of purposes. The body does generate its own creatine, so strictly speaking taking a creatine supplement is NOT a "must" for survival. However, the amount the body creates is usually small, and active individuals can benefit from increasing this amount through a supplement.

Because of the number of benefits gained from creatine supplements (not only for exercise, but life in general), combined with the relatively low cost, I would say creatine supplements is "highly advisable."

SweatLikeDog

There's no wrong answer. I'll tell you what I like to do and I do it because I like the way I feel when I do it: wake up, pop vitamins, cup of coffee, cup of bone broth with a healthy pinch of salt (no need for LMNT). Walk the dog for 3 miles, then work out, then protein mini shake - 1 scoop + 1 cup water + 1/2cup frozen fruit. 1 hour later eat an orange or other fruit and another scoop of protein + water at work.

My 2 cents on creatine: stay away from it if you're trying to lose weight.

Retroguy2000

Lietchi wrote: »

It's just that 'must' is a strong word, not quite the same connotation as for example recommend' 🙂 to me, 'must' sounds like 'you're wasting time if you workout without taking creatine'.

I've also read that 20-30% of people are non responders? And that it's more useful for people who have been exercising for a while, compared to 'newbies'?
(I've been 'out' so long myself that I consider myself a newbie in strength training, having focused mainly on running)

It really sounds like excessive nitpicking to quibble over the literal definition of words like that, especially when qualified with "safe, cheap and proven".

You also could have said the above with your original "question", instead of framing your "question" like some sort of gotcha.

Yeah, some are non-responders. How would they know that until they try it?

Lietchi

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

Lietchi wrote: »

It's just that 'must' is a strong word, not quite the same connotation as for example recommend' 🙂 to me, 'must' sounds like 'you're wasting time if you workout without taking creatine'.

I've also read that 20-30% of people are non responders? And that it's more useful for people who have been exercising for a while, compared to 'newbies'?
(I've been 'out' so long myself that I consider myself a newbie in strength training, having focused mainly on running)

It really sounds like excessive nitpicking to quibble over the literal definition of words like that, especially when qualified with "safe, cheap and proven".

You also could have said the above with your original "question", instead of framing your "question" like some sort of gotcha.

Yeah, some are non-responders. How would they know that until they try it?

Seeing the word 'must' I thought creatine was more important than I previously thought, just trying to learn. (PS a linguist and a language 'nitpicker' by trade and by nature, nuance is my thing so I tend to read that way too 🤷‍♀️ )

Retroguy2000

Lietchi wrote: »

Seeing the word 'must' I thought creatine was more important than I previously thought, just trying to learn. (PS a linguist and a language 'nitpicker' by trade and by nature, nuance is my thing so I tend to read that way too 🤷‍♀️ )

Relative to its time and expense, yes it probably is more important than you thought. Checking my last Amazon order, it works out to 10c per day. If you're lifting and increasing protein and doing all the other things like eating well, sleeping well, etc., why wouldn't you add 10c per day of creatine if it aids in increasing volume and speeding up recovery? For a natural lifter, bang for buck it's probably the best money you could spend.

springlering62

I think @lietchi’s first language is not English, so I could easily see how nuances factor in.

As an aside, I’m listening to a podcast right now. One of the things that aroused investigators’ suspicions was a potential suspect’s use of the Italian for “see you later”. She thought it was like the casual American “see you later” but apparently in Italian it literally means “I will see you and be with you later.” So they thought she planned to be with this person later. By the same token, if I tell someone my family member lives near the Aassee, but pronounce it with an southern American accent, I’ve unintentionally announced she’s a prostitute, or something to that effect. Or so I’m told. Angrily. With massive eye rolls. Nuance is everything.

Anyway, random Springleringnesses aside, I’ve learned it all comes down to what your body needs and what it can tolerate. You’ve got to listen to your body.

I’ve learned that if I have a large meal right before a workout, I get queasy and heavy. No way I’m going to do a morning hot yoga class on Sleeping-In Doughnut Sundays. 🤢

I’ve also found it helps me to hydrate heavily first thing in the morning. I’m dehydrated when I get out of bed, and I typically have a long walk with the dog, probably a ride on the recumbent and then a gym workout or two or three. So I eat breakfast as soon as I get up, so it and all the hydrating has a chance to settle before I dive in to my morning.

I’ve also learned that about 450-500 calories and 35+gr protein is optimal for me for breakfast.

My trainer can instantly tell when I’ve not eaten right - as can I.

I keep protein bars and little ginger candies in my gym bag, for big or small energy crashes. I have no hesitation or embarrassment to get out of the water and eat when one comes on, then get back in and finish class or laps.

I space my protein out fairly evenly all day for the three main meals and with a good dollop of protein in each snack and dessert, too.

But this is what I’ve learned works for me. You’re going to have to observe, make mental notes, and judge for yourself what works for yourself. “I only did X calories for breakfast. Maybe I better bump that up. I flagged hard after this workout. What can I do to keep my energy levels constant?”

AnnPT77

OP, consider that people who sell those formulations seriously want to take our money. As others have said, generally the hype exceeds the value, and the cost (of most versions) dramatically exceeds the value.

First, focus on getting excellent overall nutrition, protein, but but also healthy fats, fiber, micronutrients, food-based pro- and prebiotics, plus good hydration. If you need a boost before a workout, coffee is a cheaper source of caffeine. Sometimes I find that quick carbs before a workout are helpful, but I gauge that based on experience with how I feel.

Generically, as a rule of thumb any reasonably intense continuous cardiovascular activity over an hour may go better with some quick carbs in there somewhere. I don't know if that applies to strength workouts.

There may never be a point to those supplements, but certain the documented benefits aren't as strong as what's likely to result from tuning up overall nutrition to near optimum.

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

(snippitty)

Salt, maybe? I doubt the average person needs to worry about that. I see e.g. Mitchell Hooper (former World's Strongest Man) and similar people add salt because they are so large and work out so hard that they sweat a lot, so they supplement with extra salt.

(snip)

People who do meaningful (not necessarily massive) amounts of sweat-producing activity can require extra electrolytes, including salt. I do. It isn't unusual amongst cardiovascular athletes, even recreational ones; it seems like the same would apply to a person who lifts in a hot environment, or who simply sweats a lot when they lift.

But it's somewhat individual: Some people (like me) sweat buckets doing even relatively moderate workouts; others barely sweat at all doing the same thing. (I have a friend like that - it's a running joke among our friend group about how little/rarely J sweats, and it's not that she works less hard than others of us, including me.)

Lietchi wrote: »

It's just that 'must' is a strong word, not quite the same connotation as for example recommend' 🙂 to me, 'must' sounds like 'you're wasting time if you workout without taking creatine'.

I've also read that 20-30% of people are non responders? And that it's more useful for people who have been exercising for a while, compared to 'newbies'?
(I've been 'out' so long myself that I consider myself a newbie in strength training, having focused mainly on running)

@Lietchi: Would you settle for the contention that most people do respond (in terms of one or more of its potential benefits), so trying it is a good bet-hedge since it's affordable and safe? (I take it, and I don't even lift, hardly.) There are benefits to cardiovascular activities, too; and brain benefits as Retro mentioned. (I have a friend with early-onset dementia whose neurologist told her to take it for those reasons.)

I don't think a person is wasting their time to work out without it, but I do think evidence is sound, so it probably is more useful than you were previously thinking.

ehju0901

Thanks for all the tips! I think I need to work on my timing of when I am consuming each drink.

I do enjoy the pre-workout, because it helps to get me moving when I don't want to exercise. Essentially just a caffeine source at this point. I usually shoot for 75-100 g of caffeine before I go workout.

I think I need to work on ingesting protein earlier than my workout. I don't like feeling full while I workout, but I also don't like working out on an empty stomach either. I think I will try timing some protein for 1.5-2 hours before my workout to give it time to digest.

I will keep using LMNT during my workout, mainly because I tend to sweat a lot and already have a predisposition to being dehydrated (this has improved a lot over the last few years). Plus I enjoy the taste of it!

TLDR:
1.5-2 hours before workout: Protein drink/bar
30 min before workout: Pre-workout drink
During workout: LMNT
After workout: Meal and hydration

Retroguy2000

ehju0901 wrote: »

TLDR:
1.5-2 hours before workout: Protein drink/bar

Nothing wrong with protein then, but hopefully there are simple carbs too? For energy for your workout.

You don't specifically need protein before or after a workout. Just get your daily target in. There may be some benefit to protein spacing through the day, but it's almost min-maxing compared to just getting your target in.

neanderthin

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

ehju0901 wrote: »

TLDR:
1.5-2 hours before workout: Protein drink/bar

Nothing wrong with protein then, but hopefully there are simple carbs too? For energy for your workout.

You don't specifically need protein before or after a workout. Just get your daily target in. There may be some benefit to protein spacing through the day, but it's almost min-maxing compared to just getting your target in.

Yep, I agree 100%.

Protein spacing, in other words getting a certain amount of protein spaced out over the course of the day is more optimal for maximum muscle protein synthesis is the argument, which has been in the literature for a very long time with much of the original literature in the early 2000 and up till 2010 conclusively but has only recently found it's way to a more widely accepted audience.

Having a steady supply of amino acids throughout the day in regular intervals ensures a more optimal supply for muscle repair and growth which also ensures the activation of the mTOR pathway that ensures continuous protein synthesis, which is the main mechanism. Not to mention that consuming protein more so in one meal that the body can only use a certain amount of that protein at that time which pretty much ensures some of that protein gets oxidized or excreted, basically not utilized.

More recent research is showing that leucine in certain amounts within those feeding times optimizes the activation of mTOR which, is vital, and it appears 2 or 3g's is what works best and again we're talking about maximizing MPS and not that if we don't have enough that MPS isn't going to work properly or the mTOR pathway isn't active. Basically it helps optimize that pathway as opposed to diminishing it, which decreases muscle growth and repair and leucine helps increase the anabolic response.

Does this make a difference in real life and like you say, is there some benefit that would make a great deal of difference? probably not, but it might be worth trying to get in a targeted amount of protein spread evenly over the course of the day with a targeted amount of leucine to see what happens. Cheers.

AnnPT77

Timing of protein - spacing it out - may be more important in aging people, because on average we metabolize it less efficiently. That's a reasonable enough thing to do on speculation, IMO, if 50+.

https://www.jamda.com/article/S1525-8610(13)00326-5/fulltext