Help with workout plan

nicsflyingcircus

I have been doing a PPL sort of split for several month. I typically hit the gym 4 days a week, so I -think I'd benefit more from an upper/lower split so I could do each twice a week. I'm just not sure how to do that, because right now I have 7 upper exercises each on push and pull days, and I am pretty positive that doing 14 exercises is not the way. My current is this:


Push

Chest press 3x12 (65lbs)
Incline press 3x12 (50lbs)
Decline press 3x12(60lbs)
Shoulder press 3x12 (60lbs)
Pectoral fly 3x12 (50lbs)
Lateral raise 3x12 (30lbs) single arm
Triceps press 3x12 (105lbs)
Abdominal crunch 3x12 (125lbs)

Pull

Lat pulldown 1x10 (105lbs), 2x12 (85lbs)
Front pulldown 3x12 (100lbs)
High row 3x12 (90lbs)
Mid row 3x12 (185lbs)
Rear delt fly 3x12 (40lbs)
Back extension 3x12 (175lbs)
Bicep curl 3x12 (55lbs) single arm
Abdominal 3x12 (125lbs)

Legs

Seated leg press 3x12 (160lbs)
Seated calf raise 3x12 (125lbs)
Seated leg curl 3x12 (120lbs)
Leg extension 3x12 (85lbs)
Hip adduction 2x12, 1x7 (155lbs)
Hip abduction 1x12 (155lbs), 2x12 (150lbs)
Torso rotation 3x12 (115lbs) both sides
Abdominal 3x12 (125lbs)


I am thinking 3 chest, 3 back, 2 shoulder and maybe maybe 1 triceps and 1 biceps, and push back extensions to leg day along with both abs exercises, but not 100% sure the best way to go about this. Prior to 8 months ago, I'd never lifted weights in my life.

Any suggestions from seasoned vets would be highly appreciated.

Retroguy2000

How were you doing PPL at 4x per week? The PPL program is best suited for 6x, though you could also do PPL and a full body for 4x.

I agree that ULUL is better for 4x. I do that with an asynchronous split, so every other day. I add arms and a little shoulders into the L days, and don't do direct arms work on the U days, I leave those focused on chest and back. You can count the indirect arms work while doing chest and back at 0.5 volume.

Your upper volume is significantly higher than your legs. I'd recommend shifting that balance. You just don't need that many exercises for chest or back, and certainly not on the same day. One press (slight incline or flat) and a fly is really all you need for a chest day, and one horizontal row and one vertical row is a good back day, 3-5 sets of each. Is more better? Sure, with diminishing returns. More exercises also means more time waiting for a free machine and getting into the groove.

At 8 months in, you're probably near the end of beginner level. You should be targeting about 15 working sets per week per muscle group. Again, more is better, but with diminishing returns, including your ability to adequately recover from much higher volume.

It sounds like you're mostly sticking with machines? That's totally fine, but you should consider bringing in more free weights, for exercises like barbell squat or Bulgarian, RDL, dumbbell press, etc.

You should be able to chest press about 50% more than you can shoulder press. Perhaps your chest numbers there are indicative of too much volume in a single session.

The seated calf raise has been shown to be very inferior compared to the standing calf raise.
https://www.menshealth.com/uk/building-muscle/train-smarter/a46645280/best-calf-muscle-exercise/

Hopefully you're ticking the other boxes too, like a small calorie surplus preferred, at least 0.7g/lb protein, progressive overload, and getting enough sleep? Creatine is a great addition too.

nossmf

Retroguy2000 wrote: »

How were you doing PPL at 4x per week? The PPL program is best suited for 6x, though you could also do PPL and a full body for 4x.

I agree that ULUL is better for 4x.

My guess would be one week gets push twice, the next week pull twice, the third week legs twice.

ULUL is great for 4x, but you can also do a PPLF to keep things separated but still hit everything twice per week. (That's Push-Pull-Legs-Full Body)

Take a read through this thread for ideas on how to setup a routine:

how-to-set-up-a-weightlifting-routine

LoganBennett715

It is a quite comprehensive and well-prepared plan, but along with this workout plan, you also need a good and balanced diet.

nicsflyingcircus

@Retroguy2000 - That was kinda the point of my post. I know PPL wasn't optimal for 4x/week. I was doing PPLP, PLPP, LPPL, repeat. I also had bariatric surgery less than a year ago, so while I get 100g protein daily, I am still on a VLC diet. I have lost from 364.4 on August 30th of last year to 174.4 yesterday, and I am a 5'9", 44yo perimenopausal woman on estrogen and thyroid meds. I am lifting to maintain muscle in as much as possible, it's also why I don't see alot of increase in weight I can move frequently, I assume, since I don't eat near maintenance, let alone surplus.

So, then I could run upper like:
Chest press
Pec fly
Front pulldown (it's a narrow, overhand grip) -or- high row (narrow underhand grip)
Mid row (which is what the machine is called, I think it's just a standard row)
Shoulder press
Lateral raises

And lower leave more or less intact since it already has about the right amount of exercises?

I want to keep doing back extensions though, just throw them onto leg day?

And then, when do I do abs (just a crunch machine and Torso rotation) and arms (triceps pushdowns and bicep curls. With my work schedule, 4x/week is really my sweet spot.

@nossmf For some reason the standing calf raise machine (there is only one) is upstairs, vs all the other machines I use, which is why I've always just done seated calf raises after I finish my leg presses, it's the same machine.

Retroguy2000

@nicsflyingcircus That all sounds good.

I assume front pulldown == lat prayer?

The back extensions you could probably do any time you're warmed up, even as a superset with something else during rest times.

With arms, supersets are a nice time saver too. Start with the side you want to focus on.

For the calf machine, understood if you don't want to change floors. One possible option is use the first stair for standing calf raises. Do them one leg at a time or both legs, and optionally with a db in your free hand. Although, you say you're doing them on the leg press, which is basically a standing calf raise already, so maybe you're good already. The seated calf raise would you seated with knees bent at 90 degrees. The standing raise would have knees close to lockout, like on the leg press.

nicsflyingcircus

So the machine I leg press on (see below), I can put the seat so far back that my legs are nearly locked out, and I start each set by dropping into the negative (heels below toes, if that makes sense)



And yeah, front pulldown is a Lat exercise.

nossmf

Was gonna say I never mentioned calf machine, but Retro already talked with you about it, so 'nuff said.

I personally do my calf raises when I do leg presses as a superset.

Front pulldown (it's a narrow, overhand grip) -or- high row (narrow underhand grip)

I assume front pulldown == lat prayer?

And yeah, front pulldown is a Lat exercise.

Agreed it's a lat exercise, but I think we're all just not using the same terminology to mentally picture the same exercise. To whit, the way they are normally used in the lifting world:

Front pulldown / lat prayer: stand before a cable bar attachment, starting with arms raised overhead and elbows straight. Without bending the elbows, pull the cable attachment down in a sweeping motion to your waist, similar to if you are doing the wave at a sporting event (or in a prayerful motion, hence "lat prayer")

High row: Usually a machine (can be a cable attachment) where you sit with arms stretched before you but above the waist (up to a 45 degree angle) and pull in a semi-horizontal, semi-vertical motion through bending the elbows

Pulldown / reverse (underhand) pulldown: similar to doing a pullup/chinup, but with the body seated before the cable and the attachment moving, not the body

All three types of motion work the lats, but with very different styles of motion.

nicsflyingcircus

It's a pulldown, overhand grip. Sorry for the confusion.

nicsflyingcircus

nicsflyingcircus wrote: »

It's a pulldown, overhand grip. Sorry for the confusion.

Underhand, not overhand.

The high row is overhand.

nicsflyingcircus

BTW, thanks for your help!