I think we are meant to be fat...

wild_wild_life

Does anybody know how much weight a person generally needs to gain in order for the fat cells to likely start dividing into more fat cells?

I've never been underweight and always at the lowest end of the BMI. Before pregnancy I was always steady at the same weight. When I was pregnant the first time I think I gained about 20 to 25 pounds and 10 to 15 pounds the second time (this is only counting after the birth of my babies). I lost the weight by 8 months postpartum, and then one time years after losing the weight I gained around 9 pounds (because I was exercising less and eating more). I suppose those aren't really enough of a weight gain to create more fat cells. Probably the ones I had just got full.

Fat cells can get three times as big.

I'm just curious. It's ok if no one knows the answer to this question. I can look it up.

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/42/18226.full

This is an interesting paper. It claims that fat cells in the upper body/abdomen tend to increase in size while those in the lower body increase in both size and number. Abdominal fat ("apple" shape) is much more associated with negative health effects than lower body fat ("pear" shape).

Also found Tom Venuto's blog about that paper

http://blog.holygrailbodytransformation.com/?p=206

Sounds like it doesn't take much of a gain to make more lower body fat cells but again I'm not clear how big a deal that really is.

MsWallwoman

No excuses.

BinaryPulsar

Does anybody know how much weight a person generally needs to gain in order for the fat cells to likely start dividing into more fat cells?

I've never been underweight and always at the lowest end of the BMI. Before pregnancy I was always steady at the same weight. When I was pregnant the first time I think I gained about 20 to 25 pounds and 10 to 15 pounds the second time (this is only counting after the birth of my babies). I lost the weight by 8 months postpartum, and then one time years after losing the weight I gained around 9 pounds (because I was exercising less and eating more). I suppose those aren't really enough of a weight gain to create more fat cells. Probably the ones I had just got full.

Fat cells can get three times as big.

I'm just curious. It's ok if no one knows the answer to this question. I can look it up.

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/42/18226.full

This is an interesting paper. It claims that fat cells in the upper body/abdomen tend to increase in size while those in the lower body increase in both size and number. Abdominal fat ("apple" shape) is much more associated with negative health effects than lower body fat ("pear" shape).

Also found Tom Venuto's blog about that paper

http://blog.holygrailbodytransformation.com/?p=206

Sounds like it doesn't take much of a gain to make more lower body fat cells but again I'm not clear how big a deal that really is.

Thanks for the links and info! When I gained weight I only gained it noticeably in my thighs and butt. My abs became less visible, but I did not gain noticeable belly fat, I still had a very slim waist. Of course I had gained a small amount all over (but it was only noticeable to me in my thighs/butt).

Those links are very interesting!

whierd

I for one think it's really interesting that our body's weight regulation system is completely skewed toward accumulating fat. Obesity will kill us just as surely as starvation, but we don't appear to have a system that resists crossing an unhealthy body fat percentage, just one that's geared toward continuing to store fat even to the detriment of overall health. It seems like a design flaw.

That is because we have the ability to choose to limit our food intake. In times of famine, we do not.

wild_wild_life

Does anybody know how much weight a person generally needs to gain in order for the fat cells to likely start dividing into more fat cells?

I've never been underweight and always at the lowest end of the BMI. Before pregnancy I was always steady at the same weight. When I was pregnant the first time I think I gained about 20 to 25 pounds and 10 to 15 pounds the second time (this is only counting after the birth of my babies). I lost the weight by 8 months postpartum, and then one time years after losing the weight I gained around 9 pounds (because I was exercising less and eating more). I suppose those aren't really enough of a weight gain to create more fat cells. Probably the ones I had just got full.

Fat cells can get three times as big.

I'm just curious. It's ok if no one knows the answer to this question. I can look it up.

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/42/18226.full

This is an interesting paper. It claims that fat cells in the upper body/abdomen tend to increase in size while those in the lower body increase in both size and number. Abdominal fat ("apple" shape) is much more associated with negative health effects than lower body fat ("pear" shape).

Also found Tom Venuto's blog about that paper

http://blog.holygrailbodytransformation.com/?p=206

Sounds like it doesn't take much of a gain to make more lower body fat cells but again I'm not clear how big a deal that really is.

Thanks for the links and info! When I gained weight I only gained it noticeably in my thighs and butt. My abs became less visible, but I did not gain noticeable belly fat, I still had a very slim waist. Of course I had gained a small amount all over (but it was only noticeable to me in my thighs/butt).

Those links are very interesting!

I'm the same way. I stopped losing weight when I started to look too thin in the upper body but I still have plenty of lower body fat along for the ride. I decided it was OK with it because from what i understand it is actually supposed to be metabolically and cardiovascularly beneficial.

These all pretty much say the same thing.

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v34/n6/abs/ijo2009286a.html
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-012-0350-4
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/2042-6410-3-13.pdf

ninerbuff

The one thing human physiology didn't account for was that we as a species would end having an abundance of food, unlike other wild animals of the world, although you could take any animal and relieve it of exercise and let it eat large portions and they'd get fat too. I'm more than sure people have seen fat dogs and cats.
Animals are effective at energy storage.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Confuzzled4ever

Our bodies are amazing machines. Able to store excess food for whenever there is a lack of it so we can survive. It doesn't' know that food is pretty much readily available to everyone. It's a battle to work it off because our bodies are so good at storing for the famine...

On the bright side..when the zombie apocalypse comes all us remaining fatties will have an advantage for once. LOL

BinaryPulsar

Does anybody know how much weight a person generally needs to gain in order for the fat cells to likely start dividing into more fat cells?

I've never been underweight and always at the lowest end of the BMI. Before pregnancy I was always steady at the same weight. When I was pregnant the first time I think I gained about 20 to 25 pounds and 10 to 15 pounds the second time (this is only counting after the birth of my babies). I lost the weight by 8 months postpartum, and then one time years after losing the weight I gained around 9 pounds (because I was exercising less and eating more). I suppose those aren't really enough of a weight gain to create more fat cells. Probably the ones I had just got full.

Fat cells can get three times as big.

I'm just curious. It's ok if no one knows the answer to this question. I can look it up.

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/42/18226.full

This is an interesting paper. It claims that fat cells in the upper body/abdomen tend to increase in size while those in the lower body increase in both size and number. Abdominal fat ("apple" shape) is much more associated with negative health effects than lower body fat ("pear" shape).

Also found Tom Venuto's blog about that paper

http://blog.holygrailbodytransformation.com/?p=206

Sounds like it doesn't take much of a gain to make more lower body fat cells but again I'm not clear how big a deal that really is.

Thanks for the links and info! When I gained weight I only gained it noticeably in my thighs and butt. My abs became less visible, but I did not gain noticeable belly fat, I still had a very slim waist. Of course I had gained a small amount all over (but it was only noticeable to me in my thighs/butt).

Those links are very interesting!

I'm the same way. I stopped losing weight when I started to look too thin in the upper body but I still have plenty of lower body fat along for the ride. I decided it was OK with it because from what i understand it is actually supposed to be metabolically and cardiovascularly beneficial.

These all pretty much say the same thing.

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v34/n6/abs/ijo2009286a.html
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00394-012-0350-4
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/2042-6410-3-13.pdf

Thanks for all the links!

I just realized my original comment doesn't make sense because I said that I've never been underweight, but I meant to say I've never been overweight.

Also, it says that you create new fat cells when you leave the "lean" category, and get above 25% bodyfat for women (I never got above that).

The_Enginerd

When you store fat your body create fat cells and fills them with lipids. When that cell is full it create more fat storing cells. When you lose weight your body uses the lipids but the cells used for storage remain for later use. This means the next time you have more cals than you need your body no longer has to create a storage cell (which actually burns cals to make) it only has to fill the existing ones. This is one reason it is easy to regain lost weight. The only way to lose these cells is liposuction.

Once you have the storage capability your body will fill it if it can. Shrug*

Wait...but if you maintain your weight loss long enough, and those fat cells die. If you maintain your weight long enough, then they will not be replaced, right? :huh:

I'd always assumed what is written above was true because I'd heard it repeated so many times, till I remembered that cells actually DO die :blushing: It's a fair assumption, right? right? :ohwell:

Unfortunately fat cells have a long life span. I believe it is 8 years. Also the body replaces dead cells so it may actually replace fat cells. Not sure.:ohwell:

I'm curious about that too. Don't suppose anybody has the background to know if the number of fat cells eventually decreases after a period of time?

BinaryPulsar

When you store fat your body create fat cells and fills them with lipids. When that cell is full it create more fat storing cells. When you lose weight your body uses the lipids but the cells used for storage remain for later use. This means the next time you have more cals than you need your body no longer has to create a storage cell (which actually burns cals to make) it only has to fill the existing ones. This is one reason it is easy to regain lost weight. The only way to lose these cells is liposuction.

Once you have the storage capability your body will fill it if it can. Shrug*

Wait...but if you maintain your weight loss long enough, and those fat cells die. If you maintain your weight long enough, then they will not be replaced, right? :huh:

I'd always assumed what is written above was true because I'd heard it repeated so many times, till I remembered that cells actually DO die :blushing: It's a fair assumption, right? right? :ohwell:

Unfortunately fat cells have a long life span. I believe it is 8 years. Also the body replaces dead cells so it may actually replace fat cells. Not sure.:ohwell:

I'm curious about that too. Don't suppose anybody has the background to know if the number of fat cells eventually decreases after a period of time?

Yeah, I am curious about this also. If I find out (from a Biologist friend) I'll let you know. But, it also seems like it would be so easy for the fat cells to divide back into more fat cells anyway. Just because there are more fat cells that have been emptied doesn't necessarily mean a person is more likely to gain the weight back. Worrying about it too much could create an increase in cortisol that could lead to weight gain (or not, I have ptsd and have experienced stress to the point of hair loss and it didn't cause me to gain weight, it actually probably caused me to lose weight because it stopped my appetite). There are lots of hypothetical reasons a person could be more prone to weight gain, but that doesn't mean they actually are. I really think one of the main reasons people regain weight is because they go from a place of not being diligent about fitness and weight maintenance, then they become very diligent about weight loss and fitness, but after a while they want to go back to what they once thought was "normal", but maintaining weight is a new normal. People that lost weight think they have to work harder their whole lives to keep the weight off, but people that don't gain the weight are already working at it to prevent it. Weight maintenance does take life long diligence, and occasional splurges are ok (just not extreme and not all the time).

NoAdditives

We are not meant to be fat. Yes, our bodies are great at storing fat. But, that's only because of the high activity level and high caloric burn of our ancestors. Our bodies had to be good at storing and utilizing fat. Had we always been as sedentary as we are today we would not have developed the ability to store fat the way we do. It's the same with animals. Over feed a lazy house cat and it will get fat. Does that mean that all cats are meant to be fat? Of course not. It simply means the cat doesn't get enough exercise and eats too much.

saschka7

Can you please explain what you mean by your title and your large quoted text?

^ Wow. Just... wow.

This reply is clearly a scathing indictment of the education system in this country, and its lack of focus on physical health and well being. I thought the articule was clear and concise.

Fascinating. [said in Professor Snape's voice]

Clear and concise? The first sentence alone has 40 words (39 if you count the compound noun as 1 word) and also a Latin expression, the meaning of which most people would not be entirely certain of as it is used in this particularly long-winded and scholarly sentence.

I am a well-educated person and I would not have said this quoted paragraph was clear and concise. It is from a professional medical publication, no? Not exactly meant to be for laypeople.
Did I understand it? Yes.
Is it clear and concise? No.

BinaryPulsar

Can you please explain what you mean by your title and your large quoted text?

^ Wow. Just... wow.

This reply is clearly a scathing indictment of the education system in this country, and its lack of focus on physical health and well being. I thought the articule was clear and concise.

Fascinating. [said in Professor Snape's voice]

Clear and concise? The first sentence alone has 40 words (39 if you count the compound noun as 1 word) and also a Latin expression, the meaning of which most people would not be entirely certain of as it is used in this particularly long-winded and scholarly sentence.

I am a well-educated person and I would not have said this quoted paragraph was clear and concise. It is from a professional medical publication, no? Not exactly meant to be for laypeople.
Did I understand it? Yes.
Is it clear and concise? No.

Also, it was obvious that the poster was asking what the OP meant by the title in relation to the content of the OP. Since the title was an opinion of the OP. For most people responding to this, they were wondering what they should respond to the title or the text, since those are two entirely different things. But, the poster asked (which allowed the conversation to progress past that initial point for the rest of the thread, for everyone else as well).

There is the text of the OP, and then there is what most people are going to see as a mistaken conclusion of the text made into a title.

There is nothing uneducated about asking for a clarification of the OP's thoughts and intentions and reasons for stating things as he did and how he came to that conclusion.

mathjulz

Can you please explain what you mean by your title and your large quoted text?

^ Wow. Just... wow.

This reply is clearly a scathing indictment of the education system in this country, and its lack of focus on physical health and well being. I thought the articule was clear and concise. It was an interesting read. And it would make a great excuse for why I managed to put back on 10lbs.

But I know that in truth, these reasons are secondary to the primary distal cause: I just let myself get lazy.

I sense I missed the joke here, too. I'm getting bad at this. :noway:

I just wanted to know how his title related to his thread. I was the first person to reply. I wasn't sure if he was being facetious with his title or what, given his profile photo. Apparently that makes me dumb? Bummer.

Yeah, I was just hoping that the reply to your original post was a joke I'd missed … :ohwell:

HollyRed13

It's ideal for the body to gain weight so that during times of hunger it has stores to use. But we're not meant to be fat, obesity is a disgusting product of mass production and greed. Animals likely have similar functions in their metabolisms but they eat only when they need to, unlike humans who just stuff our faces all the time. Use common sense

Morninglory81

When you store fat your body create fat cells and fills them with lipids. When that cell is full it create more fat storing cells. When you lose weight your body uses the lipids but the cells used for storage remain for later use. This means the next time you have more cals than you need your body no longer has to create a storage cell (which actually burns cals to make) it only has to fill the existing ones. This is one reason it is easy to regain lost weight. The only way to lose these cells is liposuction.

Once you have the storage capability your body will fill it if it can. Shrug*

Wait...but if you maintain your weight loss long enough, and those fat cells die. If you maintain your weight long enough, then they will not be replaced, right? :huh:

I'd always assumed what is written above was true because I'd heard it repeated so many times, till I remembered that cells actually DO die :blushing: It's a fair assumption, right? right? :ohwell:

Unfortunately fat cells have a long life span. I believe it is 8 years. Also the body replaces dead cells so it may actually replace fat cells. Not sure.:ohwell:

I'm curious about that too. Don't suppose anybody has the background to know if the number of fat cells eventually decreases after a period of time?

Yeah, I am curious about this also. If I find out (from a Biologist friend) I'll let you know. But, it also seems like it would be so easy for the fat cells to divide back into more fat cells anyway. Just because there are more fat cells that have been emptied doesn't necessarily mean a person is more likely to gain the weight back. Worrying about it too much could create an increase in cortisol that could lead to weight gain (or not, I have ptsd and have experienced stress to the point of hair loss and it didn't cause me to gain weight, it actually probably caused me to lose weight because it stopped my appetite). There are lots of hypothetical reasons a person could be more prone to weight gain, but that doesn't mean they actually are. I really think one of the main reasons people regain weight is because they go from a place of not being diligent about fitness and weight maintenance, then they become very diligent about weight loss and fitness, but after a while they want to go back to what they once thought was "normal", but maintaining weight is a new normal. People that lost weight think they have to work harder their whole lives to keep the weight off, but people that don't gain the weight are already working at it to prevent it. Weight maintenance does take life long diligence, and occasional splurges are ok (just not extreme and not all the time).

I did some looking around and what I understand is we are always making new fat cells at tha same rate as when we hit adulthood. If we gain weight faster than supply our body temporarily increases that rate but when we lose weight we go back to making at our predetermined rate. With this info I conclude that over time the extra will die off faster than we re supply them till we reach our set amount again.

anemoneprose

1 - We're not 'meant to' do anything, we're just the result of what happened.

2 - Fretting over whether it's the size or number of fat cells that matters, and whether they die, is a good research question & fun for the equipped to think about (and not an excuse, but an explanation). But it's hardly relevant to the practical things we have to do. Whether we want them to shrink or die off, it's only logging + exercise that makes the difference either way. It's known that with lipo, fat comes back.

3 - Stoned lady's comment was prob my favourite this month.

BinaryPulsar

When you store fat your body create fat cells and fills them with lipids. When that cell is full it create more fat storing cells. When you lose weight your body uses the lipids but the cells used for storage remain for later use. This means the next time you have more cals than you need your body no longer has to create a storage cell (which actually burns cals to make) it only has to fill the existing ones. This is one reason it is easy to regain lost weight. The only way to lose these cells is liposuction.

Once you have the storage capability your body will fill it if it can. Shrug*

Wait...but if you maintain your weight loss long enough, and those fat cells die. If you maintain your weight long enough, then they will not be replaced, right? :huh:

I'd always assumed what is written above was true because I'd heard it repeated so many times, till I remembered that cells actually DO die :blushing: It's a fair assumption, right? right? :ohwell:

Unfortunately fat cells have a long life span. I believe it is 8 years. Also the body replaces dead cells so it may actually replace fat cells. Not sure.:ohwell:

I'm curious about that too. Don't suppose anybody has the background to know if the number of fat cells eventually decreases after a period of time?

Yeah, I am curious about this also. If I find out (from a Biologist friend) I'll let you know. But, it also seems like it would be so easy for the fat cells to divide back into more fat cells anyway. Just because there are more fat cells that have been emptied doesn't necessarily mean a person is more likely to gain the weight back. Worrying about it too much could create an increase in cortisol that could lead to weight gain (or not, I have ptsd and have experienced stress to the point of hair loss and it didn't cause me to gain weight, it actually probably caused me to lose weight because it stopped my appetite). There are lots of hypothetical reasons a person could be more prone to weight gain, but that doesn't mean they actually are. I really think one of the main reasons people regain weight is because they go from a place of not being diligent about fitness and weight maintenance, then they become very diligent about weight loss and fitness, but after a while they want to go back to what they once thought was "normal", but maintaining weight is a new normal. People that lost weight think they have to work harder their whole lives to keep the weight off, but people that don't gain the weight are already working at it to prevent it. Weight maintenance does take life long diligence, and occasional splurges are ok (just not extreme and not all the time).

I did some looking around and what I understand is we are always making new fat cells at tha same rate as when we hit adulthood. If we gain weight faster than supply our body temporarily increases that rate but when we lose weight we go back to making at our predetermined rate. With this info I conclude that over time the extra will die off faster than we re supply them till we reach our set amount again.

Thanks!

Sabine_Stroehm

Can you please explain what you mean by your title and your large quoted text?

^ Wow. Just... wow.

This reply is clearly a scathing indictment of the education system in this country, and its lack of focus on physical health and well being. I thought the articule was clear and concise. It was an interesting read. And it would make a great excuse for why I managed to put back on 10lbs.

But I know that in truth, these reasons are secondary to the primary distal cause: I just let myself get lazy.

I sense I missed the joke here, too. I'm getting bad at this. :noway:

I just wanted to know how his title related to his thread. I was the first person to reply. I wasn't sure if he was being facetious with his title or what, given his profile photo. Apparently that makes me dumb? Bummer.

Yeah, I was just hoping that the reply to your original post was a joke I'd missed … :ohwell:

Dunno. I'm still trying to decipher which part is a "scathing indictment" of the educational system.:huh:

wild_wild_life

1 - We're not 'meant to' do anything, we're just the result of what happened.

2 - Fretting over whether it's the size or number of fat cells that matters, and whether they die, is a good research question & fun for the equipped to think about (and not an excuse, but an explanation). But it's hardly relevant to the practical things we have to do. Whether we want them to shrink or die off, it's only logging + exercise that makes the difference either way. It's known that with lipo, fat comes back.

3 - Stoned lady's comment was prob my favourite this month.

Agreed, agreed and . . . agreed.