Advice needed, Imitating Squats

recriger

I am looking for an exercise to imitate squats. Either 1, or a small series that will give the same effect.

Reason: Back when I worked for Uncle Sam (Marines), my boss had a thing for running with all our gear; Backpacks, flack jacket, helmets, rifles(imitated)...The works. Well at this time in my life I knew very little about the structure of the body and being young didn't much care. Oops. If anyone has experienced those high quality issued boots from the late 90's they will remember that they were flat bottom (no arch support). So my medical record shows that when I enlisted I had "High" arches; but when I got out, my exit physical said I was flat footed.

This was a contributing factor to my degenerated disk at S2-S3 (second up from the pelvic bone).

I expected to have pain as I worked off all the weight earned from 10 years of lazy. I was hoping that it would reduce, and it may very well do such in the future. I should say that it has reduced in severity, but the frequency stays about the same. For now it is remaining rather expensive to lose this weight. By that I mean that I spend a lot of time at the Chiropractor.

I run 4-5 times a week (17-21 miles) and lift 3. Recently, due to a wonderful case of tennis elbow I switched from focused weight sessions (back/bi's, chest/tri's...) too full body workouts. The lifts on the full body routine don't use the same hand positions and motions needed in some of the isolation work, so the elbow doesn't hurt near as much.

So I am doing a 5X5 routine for my weights, Reg Park's instead of Stronglifts. Reg has squats every day though he switches back and forth between front and back squats. I am able to do all the dead lifts, standing press, rows...without pain beyond DOMS. It is just with the squats that I feel pain during the exercise (ice pick stabbing just to the side of the spine), and have a residual pain in the following days. In general my flexibility is not the best but I give a lot of focus to the form and everyone I have asked for critique has said that it looks proper. I think it is more the compressive load from the weights sitting on the shoulders that is the problem right now.

Until I am able to improve my core strength I need to look for something else to do as a substitution for the squats.

This post is already a tad long winded to ask another question related to it, so I will post a different topic with that question. Probably something like "Weight lifting for weight loss-back pain".

Thanks all.

princesstoadstool82

What about lowering the weight?? Till you build strenght to suport your back? And work up slowly to a higher weight... ? Doing 5x5 stronglifts myself

recriger

That is possibly the answer I get. I'm just conflicted. If I am increasing my lift weight on all the others but intentionally staying lighter on the squat, will that harm other improvement? I just don't know enough to know that answer:)

I have tried some of the machines, hip sled, leg press, hack squat... I have to work at those as well but they don't feel the same. I also wonder that even if they don't feel the same, are they good enough? For now at least.

Another general question. Reg's program calls for 3 workouts a week, an A-B-A setup. "A" is all front squats, and "B" are back squats. Since the front squats hurt more than the back squats; are legs in general strong enough, or heal fast enough that I could just do back squats each time and just remove front squats entirely?

Thanks for your reply by the way:)

bluestarlight19

Would a leg press machine work until you can get strength? Maybe slow down the pace of the program?

scottb81

Both Stonglifts and Starting Strength use lowbar back squats 3 times a week so if that hurts less it is a good option.

I am not an expert but from what I have read, and experienced, there is nothing that can really replicate the overall effect of squats on your body. So if you can get them done without damaging your back they are the best option.

Maybe you should just lower the weight to where it doesn't hurt and then go back on a +5 progression each session. You may have started out heavier than you needed to.

princesstoadstool82

That is possibly the answer I get. I'm just conflicted. If I am increasing my lift weight on all the others but intentionally staying lighter on the squat, will that harm other improvement? I just don't know enough to know that answer:)

I have tried some of the machines, hip sled, leg press, hack squat... I have to work at those as well but they don't feel the same. I also wonder that even if they don't feel the same, are they good enough? For now at least.

Another general question. Reg's program calls for 3 workouts a week, an A-B-A setup. "A" is all front squats, and "B" are back squats. Since the front squats hurt more than the back squats; are legs in general strong enough, or heal fast enough that I could just do back squats each time and just remove front squats entirely?

Thanks for your reply by the way:)

No worries... im new at all this too.. but with stronglifts its all back squats.. a is squats. Bench . Row... and b is squats overhead press and dead lifts...

Maybe just maybe if your back doesnt allow you... maybe leg presses?? I know its legs only but maybe if thats all you can do thats all you can do... good luck working out what works for you

princesstoadstool82

Opps repeated what someone else said... great minds think alike...

princesstoadstool82

Also from vids and reading... with front squats I think your leaning more forward then with the back ones... if I am remembering correctly. . Id just go with back ones if they dont hurt as much... and all my weights are different for each exercise. . As long as your upping them I dont think it will matter much... I love squats cause they are a full body work out

HelloDan

Also from vids and reading... with front squats I think your leaning more forward then with the back ones... if I am remembering correctly. . Id just go with back ones if they dont hurt as much... and all my weights are different for each exercise. . As long as your upping them I dont think it will matter much... I love squats cause they are a full body work out

Just for info:

With front squats you are much more upright, with back squats you are a bit more leaned forward, with low bar back squats you are a lot more leaned forward.

pamfm

If you think the problem is from the load of the weights on your shoulders, perhaps you could try dumbbell squats as a substitution.

princesstoadstool82

Also from vids and reading... with front squats I think your leaning more forward then with the back ones... if I am remembering correctly. . Id just go with back ones if they dont hurt as much... and all my weights are different for each exercise. . As long as your upping them I dont think it will matter much... I love squats cause they are a full body work out

Just for info:

With front squats you are much more upright, with back squats you are a bit more leaned forward, with low bar back squats you are a lot more leaned forward.

Thanks

Stage14

If you think the problem is from the load of the weights on your shoulders, perhaps you could try dumbbell squats as a substitution.

I agree. Dumbbell squats, or even just starting with body weight squats are going to be the best way to build up those core muscles. I would do this, and possibly decrease the weight on your deadlift (since the back can take a lot of that strain if your core is weak). The point is to make your core stronger, and if lifting less is what it takes to do that, then it's what you should do. It doesn't matter if it slows progress, it will be slower to build up your core without squats than to build them up with lighter squats.

Frosttshockk

Haven you given Zercher squats or Goblet Squats a try? You can go lighter and still get a full-body effect.

Also you might want to try recording yourself squat. See if you are using perfect form, its very easy to mess up a squat. Foot placement, depth of the squat, where the bar is all contribute to it. Have you tried working traps to cushion where the bar should be? Are your knee's flaring outward or going past your toes when trying to go parallel? Is your head facing forward and not upward/downward? Planks also do wonders for your core.

Mirrors will only help you notice so much, an experienced spotter will do wonders.

scottb81

If I am increasing my lift weight on all the others but intentionally staying lighter on the squat, will that harm other improvement? I just don't know enough to know that answer:)

In the short term maybe it will slow other improvement. However, the short term is only going to be a month or two. In the greater scheme of life that is nothing. In the long term if you go back to a lighter weight you will soon progress back to where you are now, but without pain.

james6998

Don't give up on squats until you have tried. Box or bench squats.

Only squat i will do based on the condition of my back and my balance issues.

phatguerilla

Sounds like you have a number of problems that need to be addressed by a medical professional or professionals. Are you still flat footed for instance or do you wear arch supports now? This could still be impacting your lifting if its not been sorted.

You also mention a lack of core strength, while many will say squats strengthen your core, if your core is already a clear weakpoint then squats can become dangerous as you have to compensate for this - sometimes that compensation is done by the back muscles or spine. It also opens you up to more flexion in the spine than you want while squatting and increasing the risk of failure, both of which will be bad for that degenerative disc issue you mentioned.


If your mobility is noticeably impaired as you seem to suggest it is then you would be better off seeing a physio or osteo who can help you work on that, stabbing back pain is not generally something you want to work around. If that doesn't help then more rigorous testing might be needed.